No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[wing5wong]

Ive missed a few pages so some of this may have been covered already

These Zone names do not lie. In Highmountain for example there are actual high mountains who block your path and force you to walk a significantly longer way than the distance between you and the target to inflate playtime and get that subscription monies.


Saw it on stream and all but double_jump DH cheaters have this issue. Sure the scenery is nice but it will be getting old soon. I'm giving it a pass until Legion releases flying patch, gonna try it then if the requirements are not obnoxious.

Those damn mountains! always getting in the way....

It makes interactions out in the world meaningful unlike CRZ for example. Flying is very underrated in WoW.

CRZ literally puts people together in low pop areas. that is a problem how?

CRZ you can't interact with players often time even though you can see players. On flight paths you also see players but really can't interact with them.

A flying mount allows you to pick and choose with whom and what to interact with at any given time as you can drop down and choose what ground content to engage in with other players.

You cant interact how so?
You cant trade? Because you can group, you can quest together, you can kill things together.....

What I don´t understand is why people want to push their way of playing on others. Obviously flying is not in game for current content so it will last longer, but at the same time - if you don´t like to fly don´t. And if I like to fly and just hang in air.. why not allow me to do that? does it ruin your gaming experience if someone is playind differently? I am not complaining on forums about people who do pet battles even tho I am not rly interested in that.

This argument just doesnt hold. It works in one direction, where the impact ONLY affects those 'higher on the food chain' of progression.
In a competitive environment where time matters, it is not a choice to impede your progression willingly.
If i want to compete, i HAVE to fly. No option.

oh so just because flying gives your more speed and freedom people will use it even tho they hate it? hmm.. thing I am saying is I am not asking to remove feature just because I don´t like it/enjoy it. It is childish move.

They will use it because it is the single best option. Not because they like to use it.

Why does performance matter on a PVE realm? Who are you competing with, or against, if you use a ground mount versus a flying mount? If you said you are using up more time by using a ground mount, then a casual player should have the option to use a flying mount. If the hardcore player wants a challenge they will use the ground mount.

Besides all the real competition in WoW happens in instances (eg raids, dungeons, rated PVP).

You're competing with players from all servers, on all types of realms, not just YOUR pve realm.
The competition grind starts in the outside world in legion.

Flying is still a choice though. It may offer a small degree of passive power, but you still get to choose if you want to use it.

Does it affect everyone? Sure... but so does the existence of raid gear... and plenty of people make the choice to avoid raiding. And raid gear has a FAR more powerful impact than flight ever could, so choosing not to fly if you really don't want to should really not be that hard.

The degree is not small. it is literally 3x movement speed and removal of obstacles and terrain from the game world.

[Aehl]

but flying is going to come

It was coming in 6.1 too. And it didnt. I dont trust them not to change their minds yet again, I dont trust them to keep the word they never give, I dont trust them to stick by their word when they have proven time and time again that they will go back on what they say at any time for any reason.

I cannot and WILL NEVER trust someone who wont commit, wont give their word, and has shown repeatedly that THEY DONT CARE what they do when it serves their own purposes.

Ordos and the cloak is a classic example.
The fact they REFUSE to say when we will get flight is enough for me to take anything they say with a grain of salt the size of Gibraltar.

No flight for a year or more.

Forced pvp after we TOLD THEM in no uncertain terms that we DO NOT EVER like the idea of having pvp shoved down our throats. They never learn and they never will..despite the fact that HALF their playerbase walked out the door during the disaster that was WOD.

I have Legion. It was bought for me. I am not playing it right now. Not sure I even fucking well WANT to. Want to use the BMAH? Yeah lets have forceflagged same faction pvp. Forced pvp even for fishing and other quests.

Bugged launch where we had to log again and again and again to even GET the starter quest.

Bad mapping and quest targets. Overtuned mobs...that they were told about in beta and ignored.

So far Legion = WOD in terms of what pisses me off.

"You will get flight...but we wont tell you when"

Now where the hell have I heard THAT before?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Flying has both social and anti social aspects to it. You can't get to someone quickly without it, but you're also far more likely to have random encounters with everyone on the ground. One big complaint about WoD was that... yeah everyone was on the ground, but nobody was out in the world doing anything because none of the activities were rewarding enough. And it was highly doubtful that people would have done anything with flying around either, as the rewards just were not enticing enough. There was no direct character power upgrade once raiding started to incentivise world content.

We shall see with Legion, since world quests and daily hubs actually give you incentive that move your character forward and upward power wise. People will be out doing it.

What both sides don't seem to recognize is that both are right. There are both pros and cons to all of this.

[Aehl]

You cant interact how so?
You cant trade? Because you can group, you can quest together, you can kill things together.....

You cant do those things if you cant SEE them....the phasing is also screwed up

[Mendal]

This argument just doesnt hold. It works in one direction, where the impact ONLY affects those 'higher on the food chain' of progression.
In a competitive environment where time matters, it is not a choice to impede your progression willingly.
If i want to compete, i HAVE to fly. No option.

Compete for what? Are you joking? First of all this is a game.. and second of all.. you need to save time for what? get to raid? since you don't have to farm for anything anymore..

Or you need flying to be competitive for pvp? or.. hmm really - I want to know now!

[wing5wong]

It was coming in 6.1 too. And it didnt. I dont trust them not to change their minds yet again, I dont trust them to keep the word they never give, I dont trust them to stick by their word when they have proven time and time again that they will go back on what they say at any time for any reason.

I cannot and WILL NEVER trust someone who wont commit, wont give their word, and has shown repeatedly that THEY DONT CARE what they do when it serves their own purposes.

Ordos and the cloak is a classic example.
The fact they REFUSE to say when we will get flight is enough for me to take anything they say with a grain of salt the size of Gibraltar.

No flight for a year or more.

Forced pvp after we TOLD THEM in no uncertain terms that we DO NOT EVER like the idea of having pvp shoved down our throats. They never learn and they never will..despite the fact that HALF their playerbase walked out the door during the disaster that was WOD.

I have Legion. It was bought for me. I am not playing it right now. Not sure I even fucking well WANT to. Want to use the BMAH? Yeah lets have forceflagged same faction pvp. Forced pvp even for fishing and other quests.

Bugged launch where we had to log again and again and again to even GET the starter quest.

Bad mapping and quest targets. Overtuned mobs...that they were told about in beta and ignored.

So far Legion = WOD in terms of what pisses me off.

"You will get flight...but we wont tell you when"

Now where the hell have I heard THAT before?

Asking you to experience a small amount of variety content is not a big deal. 2 bg wins?
Legion launch was pretty much perfect - low queues and no crashes. but thats not even on topic

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Compete for what? Are you joking? First of all this is a game.. and second of all.. you need to save time for what? get to raid? since you don't have to farm for anything anymore..

Or you need flying to be competitive for pvp? or.. hmm really - I want to know now!

You realise people compete for top positions right? World 1st, US 1st,Server 1st, Top 100 World and so on...
Im not sure what you're getting at with point 1. Competition cant belong in a game? Games are only meant to be fun and cant be competitive? People dont play competitive sport because they hate it, how is gaming any different.

You save time by being able to complete quests faster, get to dungeons faster, gain character power through gear and artifact power faster, increased rate of gathering for professions and gold making....
Im not sure where you get "don't have to farm anymore" from

[Mendal]

You realise people compete for top positions right? World 1st, US 1st,Server 1st, Top 100 World and so on...
Im not sure what you're getting at with point 1. Competition cant belong in a game? Games are only meant to be fun and cant be competitive? People dont play competitive sport because they hate it, how is gaming any different.

You save time by being able to complete quests faster, get to dungeons faster, gain character power through gear and artifact power faster, increased rate of gathering for professions and gold making....
Im not sure where you get "don't have to farm anymore" from

Oki, I am not saying games are not competitive, just asking how flying makes you more competitive. Since you don't compete for worlds lvl110 after.. first few hours. And for pve you need to go to dungeons faster? gather and gold making? In what patch are you living in? if you are competitive you sell tokens and don't waste time on that anyway or you are not really "competitive" so nothing that can be bought with gold meters since most valuable thing is time. Ok maybe about artifact power (can't argue about that since i have no idea how it works), but 99% it will still be about killing bosses first and for that..

Ok, even if I am wrong and you need to use EVERYTHING to be competitive and you pee in bucket next to your computer to save time. How many ppl are competitive in this game? Top 100 guilds? from what - millions of players?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Oki, I am not saying games are not competitive, just asking how flying makes you more competitive. Since you don't compete for worlds lvl110 after.. first few hours. And for pve you need to go to dungeons faster? gather and gold making? In what patch are you living in? if you are competitive you sell tokens and don't waste time on that anyway or you are not really "competitive" so nothing that can be bought with gold meters since most valuable thing is time. Ok maybe about artifact power (can't argue about that since i have no idea how it works), but 99% it will still be about killing bosses first and for that..

Ok, even if I am wrong and you need to use EVERYTHING to be competitive and you pee in bucket next to your computer to save time. How many ppl are competitive in this game? Top 100 guilds? from what - millions of players?

As people we have this resource called time. Some people have unlimited time to play WoW, and thus they do not see the extreme levels of speed as a mechanic to be something that offers a competitive edge. The rest of us who have jobs and social lives outside of the game, and are often limited in our play, must take the fastest route possible at times to complete daily events for say artifact power and order hall resources.

When you can avoid unwanted encounters and move 3x the speed of a ground mount, you're telling me that doesn't offer an advantage when your limiting resource is time?

[wing5wong]

Oki, I am not saying games are not competitive, just asking how flying makes you more competitive. Since you don't compete for worlds lvl110 after.. first few hours. And for pve you need to go to dungeons faster? gather and gold making? In what patch are you living in? if you are competitive you sell tokens and don't waste time on that anyway or you are not really "competitive" so nothing that can be bought with gold meters since most valuable thing is time. Ok maybe about artifact power (can't argue about that since i have no idea how it works), but 99% it will still be about killing bosses first and for that..

Wasnt talking about first lvl 110 XD.
Competitive PvE is about completing your world quests on 1, usually 2, often 3 or more toons to ensure they are geared and available for progression. There is limited time, so to choose to go slow is a deliberate choice to hinder your progression.
Resorting to selling token to make gold.... most people dont do that, if anything they give Susan a call. Im talking legitimate farming/gold making through the AH.


"since most valuable thing is time"
This is exactly why there is no choice to use anything BUT flying. You go slower, you miss out on increased gain of 'valuables', or miss the valuables completely due to lack of time.

Regardless, this point has been argued before, and it sticks with what i said initially - the players that dont do this anyway (serious/hardcore progression) are not affected (it sounds like you are a typical, casual player - not a serious raider, pvper etc). You may not understand why people do it, thats fine, but no serious player deliberately choose to be worse off - its stupid.

[Connll]

But it's not "small". It's massive. It's about as massive as you can get outside of a raw, significant combat power boost. It's not something that you can have and choose not to use voluntarily, without a second thought.

PLease tell what kind of power a flying player can get which a non-flying can´t.

[Sluvs]

It doesn't inhibit because of convenience as you are more likely to go help with a flying mount. If you are on a ground mount and on the other side of High Mountain you are less likely to go help another player though.

Flying is a tool of convenience which does help social interactions or make them more likely to happen. If a player is stuck in an instance, Dalaran or trying to go around a tiny hill via ground mount then those scenarios clearly inhibit player interactions.

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Flying doesn't take as long as a ground mount, because ground mounts very rarely can be used to go the direct route over terrain like flying can. Using a ground mount is difficult in lansdcapes like High Mountain or Spires of Arrak.

A flying mount is a big, important way to interact with a world and there is a social aspect of it. I also like how you refuse to acknowledge that players using a flying mount have helped you in the past and simply resorted to not understanding.

A flying mount is not designed to only take you to from point A to B. That is what flight paths do as well as teleports. A flying mount allows you to to go point A, take a detour and then resume to point B or switch and go back to point A.

I never said that a player did not help me. I said that i never saw an example of a flying mount being a social tool, because you did not provide me an example of what that was. Later after you provided an example of what you meant by this "social tool" thing, I understood what you meant, and i retorted by saying that ground mounts fulfill that role too. Do not put words in my mouth please. And do note presume I know what you mean when you use a vague term like "Social tool".

In high mountain or spires of arak, still dont take that long as you claim to take.

Mounts are made to get to point A to point B, a flying mount is designed to do that faster. Flight paths and teleports are similar but they are fixed. The advantage of a Flying mount is that you get flexibility on where you start(point A) to where you finally land (point B). Sure, you can make a detour, but that is as designed as being able to walk around in a mount, unmounted or in this case flying. In other words, it's a simple transportation tool. Not a social one.

Claiming that is a social tool, and that it "Binds" the community together it's a simply untrue. If you claim that flying is a social tool, i can say the same about ground mounts and general movement. And again, if you consider it a social tool, you have to consider it a raiding and pvp tool as well.

Are flying mounts convenient? Hell yeah, and they give us some pretty kick ass models too. But to claim it's a social tool, it's dishonest. They did not develop flying mount at blizzard and said "Man, this is a great social feature!".

[Eats Compost]

PLease tell what kind of power a flying player can get which a non-flying can´t.

Flying IS the power. It radically reduced the time it takes to do many things, and lets some of them be skipped entirely. Combat power isn't the only thing that falls under the umbrella of character power.

Remember, it goes both ways. It doesn't matter how much gear a guy on the ground gets, he'll never be as fast as someone flying.

[Mendal]

Wasnt talking about first lvl 110 XD.
Competitive PvE is about completing your world quests on 1, usually 2, often 3 or more toons to ensure they are geared and available for progression. There is limited time, so to choose to go slow is a deliberate choice to hinder your progression.
Resorting to selling token to make gold.... most people dont do that, if anything they give Susan a call. Im talking legitimate farming/gold making through the AH.


"since most valuable thing is time"
This is exactly why there is no choice to use anything BUT flying. You go slower, you miss out on increased gain of 'valuables', or miss the valuables completely due to lack of time.

Regardless, this point has been argued before, and it sticks with what i said initially - the players that dont do this anyway (serious/hardcore progression) are not affected (it sounds like you are a typical, casual player - not a serious raider, pvper etc). You may not understand why people do it, thats fine, but no serious player deliberately choose to be worse off - its stupid.

Most people are not competitive, but we are talking about it so i guess every little bit helps and if so - you are definitely not out there farming herbs. And since you are top100 guild player you know how it is and was for many years.. (where came repair golds from, etc) and here is the same thing about selling token - why not do that if it gives you advantage, to spend more time doing other stuff in game since you won't have to worry about gold? it is big competitive advantage.. bigger than having flying mount. And I bet if you are creative there are way more ways to be "competitive" like getting Grand Marshal back in vanilla.. but this is different story.

[rebecca191]

As people we have this resource called time. Some people have unlimited time to play WoW, and thus they do not see the extreme levels of speed as a mechanic to be something that offers a competitive edge. The rest of us who have jobs and social lives outside of the game, and are often limited in our play, must take the fastest route possible at times to complete daily events for say artifact power and order hall resources.

When you can avoid unwanted encounters and move 3x the speed of a ground mount, you're telling me that doesn't offer an advantage when your limiting resource is time?

Having limited time is one of the reasons I want flying. Half the reason, since I prefer the feel of the game with flying as well, but when I have limited time to play at night, being forced to use a slower method of transportation than the one I used for like 8 years of WoW feels really bad. And it's literally the only reason I am delaying purchasing Legion, so that I only get stuck playing without flight for the shortest possible time. I played beta and this one thing was a dealbreaker for me even though it otherwise was a much better expac than Cata and WoD and MoP. Honestly, I would have been okay if they just disabled flying in Suramar and allowed it everywhere else, just like it didn't bother me enough to make me want to quit when there were no flying islands in Pandaria. But no flying everywhere for months maybe even a year? Not worth the time or the money for me, even for an expac that I probably otherwise would have loved.

[Elim Garak]

Flying has both social and anti social aspects to it. You can't get to someone quickly without it, but you're also far more likely to have random encounters with everyone on the ground. One big complaint about WoD was that... yeah everyone was on the ground, but nobody was out in the world doing anything because none of the activities were rewarding enough. And it was highly doubtful that people would have done anything with flying around either, as the rewards just were not enticing enough. There was no direct character power upgrade once raiding started to incentivise world content.

1. Not a single anti-social thing about flying. Really, check up the term's definition for once.
2. With everyone on the ground you have less random encounters because: less people are out in the world due to reward effort ratio, the landscape is convoluted mess which is hard to navigate so no one will go meet other players over that mountain even if they were told that there are other players, it's harder to SEE other players due to worse perspective - all you see is forrests, hills, walls, rocks, etc; when you are on the ground there's an issue of mobs that pretty much kill ANY social interaction in the world, unless you like talking to other people in spirit form.
3. Everytime you see other players it's mostly in - hubs, fps, quest areas, roads between hubs, fps and quests areas. Same places you would see them regardless of your mode of transportation
4. Enabled Flying in WoD showed that more people were in the world than without flight.

It should be pretty obvious that the easier it is to socialize the more likely people will socialize.

[Dormie]

Long live no flying!

[Deleted]

Wasnt talking about first lvl 110 XD.
Competitive PvE is about completing your world quests on 1, usually 2, often 3 or more toons to ensure they are geared and available for progression. There is limited time, so to choose to go slow is a deliberate choice to hinder your progression.
Resorting to selling token to make gold.... most people dont do that, if anything they give Susan a call. Im talking legitimate farming/gold making through the AH.


"since most valuable thing is time"
This is exactly why there is no choice to use anything BUT flying. You go slower, you miss out on increased gain of 'valuables', or miss the valuables completely due to lack of time.

Regardless, this point has been argued before, and it sticks with what i said initially - the players that dont do this anyway (serious/hardcore progression) are not affected (it sounds like you are a typical, casual player - not a serious raider, pvper etc). You may not understand why people do it, thats fine, but no serious player deliberately choose to be worse off - its stupid.

You are one of those very few "hardcore pro gamers" that talk about progression as if it was the most important thing in the world. But you fail to see that you are in a very tiny minor group of player types. Most players are very different than you.

"Serious Players" are so few they don't matter. This game is made for the masses not for the hand full of "serious players" as you call them. So why do you think opinion is worth more than the peoples opinion (you call them casuals) who Blizzard gets waaaaaaayyyyyyyy more money off? Some "serious players" actually do understand that from a business standpoint they are not as relevant as the casual crowd is, and some of them irrational seem to think they are more important.

[Dhrizzle]

Having limited time is one of the reasons I want flying. Half the reason, since I prefer the feel of the game with flying as well, but when I have limited time to play at night, being forced to use a slower method of transportation than the one I used for like 8 years of WoW feels really bad. And it's literally the only reason I am delaying purchasing Legion, so that I only get stuck playing without flight for the shortest possible time. I played beta and this one thing was a dealbreaker for me even though it otherwise was a much better expac than Cata and WoD and MoP. Honestly, I would have been okay if they just disabled flying in Suramar and allowed it everywhere else, just like it didn't bother me enough to make me want to quit when there were no flying islands in Pandaria. But no flying everywhere for months maybe even a year? Not worth the time or the money for me, even for an expac that I probably otherwise would have loved.

You realise that if flying was in the game they'd probably tune the quests to take longer or give lower rewards so players don't run out of things to do? Blizzard tune the game so it takes a certain amount of time/effort to get a certain amount of reward, with flight enabled your limited time would not progress your character further.

[Deleted]

I'm really dissapointed with no flying at level 110. Legion is an amazing expansion, just flying is missing

[Flawedhero]

I'm really dissapointed with no flying at level 110. Legion is an amazing expansion, just flying is missing

It has been out for two days. Settle down, champ.