No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Deleted]

How annoying no flight is will probably also heavily depend on your class and profession.
I'm a gatherer on my shaman. My main spec is resto. My offspec is elemental.
When I want to go gather herbs, I run around, very often pulling big packs of mobs. I have no shadowmeld, stealth, aggrodump, my aoe is ok-ish, but my hp gets hammered down so fast, it's not even funny, so trying to get away is my best option. Sometimes I escape, sometimes I die. Usually I have to kill the mobs before I can pick my herb anyway, as they keep interrupting my herb picking. Most flowers require me to kill several mobs, and with no artifact points in my ele weapon yet it's such a pain. My alchemy recipes require quite a lot of herbs so if I want to have flasks for raiding I have to go get them myself. I unsubbed in WoD over the whole flying debacle, so I was not on that goldmaking train.

My druid also has alchemy and herbalism. Now there I have stealth, shadowmeld, blink, good aoe (feral) when needed and for when no escape mechanisms are ready.
On my druid I miss flying a bit less compared to my shaman. It's herbalism heaven. Run around, when needed pull a dozen mobs and when getting to the herb, 'shadowmeld', watch them all run back, pick flower. Or I run around mounted and when close to a spot that sometimes has a herb, I stealth my way there, quickly grab it and stealth again.

Now since I had a choice and many alts, I dropped herbalism on my shaman and went with enchanting.

I can imagine if you are a class that can take a good beating, or has good aoe, or you don't have gathering professions, you may not miss flying so much.
There will also be exceptions, who like it the painful way, and just love to go out gathering the hard way, getting pounded, die a few times, run backs, and they find it all worth it.
But I hate it.

[Deleted]

1. That "huge change" happened 2 years ago. People need to get a grip.
2. Immersion is subjective. Agreeing to disagree since you just want to parse words and pick a fight.
3. No one had to ask for it. Blizz wanted it. Turns out they can change their game to meet their wants and needs.

1.) How about Blizz is getting a grip? They have opened pandorras box, and they don't realize that they can't close it. Trying to shove "no flight til X" down players throat doesn't seem to work in some cases (still more people want flight than people how wish flight to be gone).

2.) Yes immersion is subjective. Tell that to Blizzard who try to use immersion as an argument for delaying / scratching flight in game.

3.) Well yes. Blizzard wanted it, and as far as i see their thick skulled "i want it this way or i go home and take my shiny toy with me"-attitude did harm the game more than flight ever did in the past 9 years before that. If they ever understand that if they have an successful product, they can NOT do what they want but have to do what their customers want. This is like always the case when you become a "slave to your success", playing time is over and businesstime starts. So what to tell Blizzard about flying: deal with it! And bring it back the way it was.... Well i would like the pathfinderway too (just not how it is right now) or better an epic questchain, as long as it wasn't gated behind some stupid "you'll have to wait X-month to finally unlock it".

This is the basis of the game. Travel is not an integral part of that leveling. We're lucky flight on Azeroth was unlocked at all, and that we are not still walking until lvl 40. Having an heirloom bike at lvl 1 is something more than we ever thought would be added.

We are lucky? You know why they made those changes? Blizzard is lucky because if they hadn't made those changes they would have lost many more players. Stop pretending that WoW-players are all addicts that have no choice but to pay and play this game and should be greatful for everything Blizzard throws at them.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Blizzard nerfed the toys because it hurts Demon Hunters class fantasy. Do you buy it?

Yes or no?

I don't know about buying it or not. It is like makeup. I don't use it so I don't browse the product enough to really determine which is best, why, or how. Then if I did I would also be at a loss to why I would be so caught up in the moment to care to begin with.

[Okacz]

Oh rubbish. We cant have every single action/encounter in the game be saving the world and killing Archimonde+1. That would, ironically, make saving the world feel cheaper.

You need to stop being so stupidly melodramatic and accept that you're playing a game - some things require a little suspension of disbelief - and this is one of them.

Player is being praised left and right for being "the one", is able to kill world-ending threats in seconds on LFR, and wields the most powerful weapons in game (again, constantly mentioned by NPCs). And the same player is constantly summoned to take care of nuts being littered, or wolves being hungry. Suspension of disbelief is being sodomised here so hard that no porn side has the courage to publish it. Which is of course on Blizzard for suddenly making our character "The Greatest Guy That Ever Was" since WoD, along with millions of other randoms.

But yeah, this guy, the Saviour of Azeroth, Highlord of Deathlord the Archmage wielding the Sword of Ultimate Radness - that guy suddenly forgot how to fly his dragons.

Yeah, no, it would not break Legion if you were able to mount up in Highmountain, fly into the middle of Suramar, do your communist "Burn rich peoples ships" quest and port out. Instead of flying all youre doing is teleporting to a place, and running on water to quest. Sure, flying broke the game there. You know what - even if your dragon could incinerate your enemies from above while doing WQs, the game would be fine and balanced. Just make sure that dragon's breath isn't too strong, so it would be difficult to kill even a single non-elite npc with it. Try using it on the elite guy in Suramar - he starts Arcane Blasting your sorry ass till you fall from your mount.

No flying is not due to immersion (hello magical whistle that creates an eagle that magically takes you to a taxi dude), not due to balancing of content difficulty, unless done by the guy who designed secondaries on Survival Hunter. It's just that some developers dislike flying as an idea in general, and are to stubborn to give in, or that flying takes too long to implement.

[Deleted]

How annoying no flight is will probably also heavily depend on your class and profession.
I'm a gatherer on my shaman. My main spec is resto. My offspec is elemental.
When I want to go gather herbs, I run around, very often pulling big packs of mobs. I have no shadowmeld, stealth, aggrodump, my aoe is ok-ish, but my hp gets hammered down so fast, it's not even funny, so trying to get away is my best option. Sometimes I escape, sometimes I die. Usually I have to kill the mobs before I can pick my herb anyway, as they keep interrupting my herb picking. Most flowers require me to kill several mobs, and with no artifact points in my ele weapon yet it's such a pain. My alchemy recipes require quite a lot of herbs so if I want to have flasks for raiding I have to go get them myself. I unsubbed in WoD over the whole flying debacle, so I was not on that goldmaking train.

My druid also has alchemy and herbalism. Now there I have stealth, shadowmeld, blink, good aoe (feral) when needed and for when no escape mechanisms are ready.
On my druid I miss flying a bit less compared to my shaman. It's herbalism heaven. Run around, when needed pull a dozen mobs and when getting to the herb, 'shadowmeld', watch them all run back, pick flower. Or I run around mounted and when close to a spot that sometimes has a herb, I stealth my way there, quickly grab it and stealth again.

Now since I had a choice and many alts, I dropped herbalism on my shaman and went with enchanting.

I can imagine if you are a class that can take a good beating, or has good aoe, or you don't have gathering professions, you may not miss flying so much.
There will also be exceptions, who like it the painful way, and just love to go out gathering the hard way, getting pounded, die a few times, run backs, and they find it all worth it.
But I hate it.

My main is a mage with many useful tools (invisibility, blink, snare, feather fall) and no gathering professions (and I need to kill random mobs for cloth and green items to disenchant if I would run empty on mats which is not the case at the moment), so I would not complain at all - but I miss flying, and I would be glad to spare me some annoying travel / ways which I am fed up with for quite a time. While I still do WQs and emissary quest for AP and some other benefits, and have to finish 200 WQs to unlock an alternative for my hidden skin I got about a week ago, I would never ever do all more WQs than I find worthwile and quite stopped with archaeology after getting to 800, because this profession was made even worse than in WoD.

My oldest alt is a rogue, so collecting herbs on that character is not that bad. I also got the useful toys (glider, emerald winds) and some engineering gliders in reserve. This plus waterstrider plus sky golem make farming herbs bearable. I don't know if I will be farming herbs much on my healer (priest) though. Currently, I only play classes which either have a vanish mechanic or a tank pet. This should be telling all about their incredible world design, which is made worse by scaling mobs. Honestly, the only areas where mobs kill me is the Suramar elite area, when you have bad luck with running through too many anti-illusion units. But no matter where, you get the maximum of the annoyance, because your aggro range does not change.

I want flying back. I am bored by the open world already, and I would like to reduce the duration of the boring parts (actually doing quests is OK, but travelling is not), and to see areas where I have not been before (because it's either not possible to reach without dropping down and gliding, or too pointless or annoying to go to in the first place).

Edit: You can be bored even if you have things to do, possibly even more so. If your things to do are mindnumbing, for example. I have a decent item level for a character who only have done about 5 mythic dungeons and exactly 1 EN normal raid boss (and every lockout of world bosses) - 854 - and the only quests I have to pay attention to are the big group quest in Suramar elite area. I can do small group quests perfectly fine by myself.

[Mafic]

I don't know about buying it or not. It is like makeup. I don't use it so I don't browse the product enough to really determine which is best, why, or how. Then if I did I would also be at a loss to why I would be so caught up in the moment to care to begin with.

So you don't want to answer a simple question even based on what you know and what the devs have said regarding Legion? Thanks for answering the question with a non answer.

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The entire class fantasy thing needs to DIAF. It's been used to excuse so many nonsensical decisions.

It is the same reason why they broke Outlaw's grappling hook functionality and then reverted soon after to work with the terrain. I have said this before WoW dev teams are doing two different things and do not communicate with each other. Flying in WoD was obviously massive differences with the devs and when they announced the time line for flying in Legion the other devs seemed caught off guard with the "mid expansion" timeline.

They introduced these many toys to replace/mitigate the loss of flight but the other batch of WoW devs come along and nerf most of the toys within the first month of Legion to the ground. Thus, negating precious dev time spent on these for no apparent reason.

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I don't find have problem navigating the terrain in Legion and it's pretty straight forward and I have done all the Legion treasures, rares and outdoor quests. It's a lot better than WoD where you had Spires of Arak or Nagrand treasures that required the glider to reach them.

What exactly do you find horrible about it?

Legion terrain is worse than WoD not better. High Mountain and Stormheim are worse than Spires of Arrak. Not even close. They tired copying the WotLK zones in Legion and still failed at doing copy pasta. How bad do the WoW devs have to be that they fail to copy zones from an expansion over almost a decade ago?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

1.) How about Blizz is getting a grip? They have opened pandorras box, and they don't realize that they can't close it. Trying to shove "no flight til X" down players throat doesn't seem to work in some cases (still more people want flight than people how wish flight to be gone).

The problem with this debate is sure, maybe more want flight than don't, but only a small handful are radicalized and quit the game over it. Or carry on endlessly about it. Like sure I will enjoy flight when it returns but it isn't worth pulling down my pants and shitting on my friends and guild over by quitting. Or hating actual people that developed a game over. The game plays fine without it just as it does with it.

2.) Yes immersion is subjective. Tell that to Blizzard who try to use immersion as an argument for delaying / scratching flight in game.

This is kind of a seriously moment. I mean flight certainly hasn't been removed from the game. It is being released as a stage of the expansion. Only in WoD did they truly consider removing flight and sure, they bad slid into what they are doing with Legion. Which honestly is a pretty healthy middle ground between flight and no flight. But again it boils down to small camps of severally radicalized camps that carry it on endlessly.

3.) Well yes. Blizzard wanted it, and as far as i see their thick skulled "i want it this way or i go home and take my shiny toy with me"-attitude did harm the game more than flight ever did in the past 9 years before that. If they ever understand that if they have an successful product, they can NOT do what they want but have to do what their customers want. This is like always the case when you become a "slave to your success", playing time is over and businesstime starts. So what to tell Blizzard about flying: deal with it! And bring it back the way it was.... Well i would like the pathfinderway too (just not how it is right now) or better an epic questchain, as long as it wasn't gated behind some stupid "you'll have to wait X-month to finally unlock it".

I have to beg to differ. Was flight a factor in WoDs fall? Sure. So was the fact I couldn't put Christmas lights up inside my garrison building. People leave the game for a lot of reasons. But truth be told what did WoD in was terrible patches, horrendous content droughts, and people being isolated in garrisons instead of you know actually playing a game. Even when I got flight I had little to no reason to use it. Even if it was in the game when I first hit 100 it wouldn't have amounted to much because the garrison just did all that better.

Also no one is stopping you from talking about flying. I mean fuck look at this thread and we can see that isn't the case. I feel that is where things get a little bit silly. I mean you feel you can walk around and step on people for liking the lack of flight. Or step on people for disagreeing with you. But the second you feel the foot on you it becomes some sort of oppressive grip around your rights to speak or something. Grow up bro. Talk about flight all you want. Just don't get in the way of people that want to counter your statements. As the old saying goes treat those as you want to be treated and all I can say is the way you are with folks is getting you exactly how you need to be treated. Sure, then you counter this back onto me and others.. but you know what the difference is.. man.. I just don't whine and cry about it or use it as the reason I am right or something. But whatever man.. its the internet.. your a god and can never be wrong or whatever and its cool. I get it.

We are lucky? You know why they made those changes? Blizzard is lucky because if they hadn't made those changes they would have lost many more players. Stop pretending that WoW-players are all addicts that have no choice but to pay and play this game and should be greatful for everything Blizzard throws at them.

I have my doubts. If Blizzard wanted to throw stuff at people to keep more people playing they would make more 5 mans. More raids. More battlegrounds. New dailies/world quests and reps to grind. That is what keeps people playing this game. Flight sure.. some.. but the masses.. hardly.. and I say this as someone that would lean flight over non-flight but remain indifferent.

[Deleted]

I am also a bit tired of the waterstrider mount, which is often the only mount of choice because you either have to cross too much water on the way from A to B, or you are travelling in Suramar where water ways are the safest bet if you don't want to pay attention to the guards.

I got a fox some weeks ago, but cannot use it much except in Dalaran, because elsewhere, utility mounts trump everything. Same goes for my spectral tiger or the random favorite mount. So much for enjoying ground mounts which you cannot use when flying mounts are available. You have the same problem on the ground, only with a narrow selection of utility mounts instead of a variety of flying mounts, where utility is not that much of a thing (except sky golem for non-druid herbalists and mounts with passenger seats, which are a special bunch, anyway). Ah well, sometimes I deliberately "gimp" myself and select a mount without utility, just to have something different from my collection to look at.

I belong to the group which grinds their teeth while playing grounded and waiting for freedom. This does not mean that I approve their decision on flight, especially the prolonging of the achievement to an undecided (or not communicated) point in the future.

[TyrianFC]

I am also a bit tired of the waterstrider mount, .

That issue was/is a good example of why players dont make good game designers. The designers were right to remove the waterstriders ability to walk in Broken Isles, and its a pity they caved in to whiny players who dont know whats best for the game or themselves. Players were/are too stupid to see or understand why something needed to be taken away from them for the greater good of the game. And similar stupidity is rampant throughout this thread.

Thankfully, they never caved on removal of flight for Legion for extended periods (and future expansions).

[Mafic]

The hardest part about world quests is actually getting to them because of the terrain. Frustration over travel does not make for engaging game play.

Additionally, we're heavily invested in our flying mounts, it's absurd to keep them grounded.

Look at the world quest design. They are designed to be finished quickly, so the bulk of time spent is traveling around the terrain. That is how Blizzard artificially stretches content out and so obvious when it takes longer to reach world quest destination than do the world quest itself.

[Baconeggcheese]

WoW without flight is like a finely cooked meal with a short-curly hair in it. It's technically still a good meal, but the entire thing is ruined by one nasty, disgusting thing in it.

More apt analogy would be it being a finely cooked meal with one of the extra sides missing. The entire meal and all the integral bits are still there, but if you really care about that side then a lil somethings missing.

Anyway is this what you guys are still talking about? I'm genuinely amazed this conversation hasn't grown stale for you guys after all these years. What is there even left to talk about?

[Dhrizzle]

Legion terrain is worse than WoD not better. High Mountain and Stormheim are worse than Spires of Arrak. Not even close. They tired copying the WotLK zones in Legion and still failed at doing copy pasta. How bad do the WoW devs have to be that they fail to copy zones from an expansion over almost a decade ago?

What are you talking about? WotLK was 80%+ snow and had lots of empty space. Legion is pretty much snowless and has the content crammed together, much closer to Pandaria than Northrend in both scale and the arrangement.

At what point whilst you were playing Legion did you stop and think it looked like they'd copied WotLK, and how could you tell that's what they tried to do if they failed?

That issue was/is a good example of why players dont make good game designers. The designers were right to remove the waterstriders ability to walk in Broken Isles, and its a pity they caved in to whiny players who dont know whats best for the game or themselves. Players were/are too stupid to see or understand why something needed to be taken away from them for the greater good of the game. And similar stupidity is rampant throughout this thread.

Thankfully, they never caved on removal of flight for Legion for extended periods (and future expansions).

At least Scubistacy is one "pro-flyer" who understands that choice of mount is an illusion if there is an obviously more powerful/convenient choice.

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Look at the world quest design. They are designed to be finished quickly, so the bulk of time spent is traveling around the terrain. That is how Blizzard artificially stretches content out and so obvious when it takes longer to reach world quest destination than do the world quest itself.

Why do you use the term "artificial" as if there's some sort of "natural" way that content should completed?

Also do you think the game would be better if they "artificially" boosted the quest requirements or mob health so the killing took longer than the travelling?

[Lei]

Look at the world quest design. They are designed to be finished quickly, so the bulk of time spent is traveling around the terrain. That is how Blizzard artificially stretches content out and so obvious when it takes longer to reach world quest destination than do the world quest itself.

It is quite sad, actually, today I logged in to do Nightfallen emissary quest, and I am one of the probably very few people who actually LOVES the Su'esh quest. But fuck Su'esh, getting there takes too much effort, I rather kill 100 Moon Guard Nightborne from the air, or that rare in the cave next to the Flight Master.
So even if they add fun world quests, or generally just more WQs, half of them will probably go down the toilet because people will do the most clumped up ones or the closest to the Flight Master, not the ones they would actually enjoy.

[Dhrizzle]

More apt analogy would be it being a finely cooked meal with one of the extra sides missing. The entire meal and all the integral bits are still there, but if you really care about that side then a lil somethings missing.

Anyway is this what you guys are still talking about? I'm genuinely amazed this conversation hasn't grown stale for you guys after all these years. What is there even left to talk about?

Better yet, WoW with flying is like a finely cooked meal with ketchup dolloped on top. A good idea the next day when the meal has gone a bit stale but not desirable when the food is freshly cooked.

[Mafic]

I am also a bit tired of the waterstrider mount, which is often the only mount of choice because you either have to cross too much water on the way from A to B, or you are travelling in Suramar where water ways are the safest bet if you don't want to pay attention to the guards.

I got a fox some weeks ago, but cannot use it much except in Dalaran, because elsewhere, utility mounts trump everything. Same goes for my spectral tiger or the random favorite mount. So much for enjoying ground mounts which you cannot use when flying mounts are available. You have the same problem on the ground, only with a narrow selection of utility mounts instead of a variety of flying mounts, where utility is not that much of a thing (except sky golem for non-druid herbalists and mounts with passenger seats, which are a special bunch, anyway). Ah well, sometimes I deliberately "gimp" myself and select a mount without utility, just to have something different from my collection to look at.

I belong to the group which grinds their teeth while playing grounded and waiting for freedom. This does not mean that I approve their decision on flight, especially the prolonging of the achievement to an undecided (or not communicated) point in the future.

They tried to remove water strider functionality in Legion beta but met resistance.

http://blizzardwatch.com/2016/02/25/...rider-changes/

WoW devs only respond to resistance. Apathy, indifference, or silence that some that post in this thread advocate pro flyers should attempt are completely wrong.

100% wrong.

Consistent, on point, feedback is all that matters to change things. Everything else is simply throwing willows into the wind and hoping they land on a mountain.

[Lei]

They tried to remove water strider functionality in Legion beta but met resistance.

http://blizzardwatch.com/2016/02/25/...rider-changes/

WoW devs only respond to resistance. Apathy, indifference, or silence that some that post in this thread advocate pro flyers should attempt are completely wrong.

100% wrong.

Consistent, on point, feeback is all that matters to change things. Everything else is simply throwing willows into the wind and hoping they land on a mountain.

Nerfing the water strider's water walk would be the same as grounding people. They should have thought about this "problem" (it's really not a problem) when they implemented the strider (I'm sick of all the nerfed toys I have for the same reason. I will never use the Aqua Jewel, which was mostly a cosmetic item for people, and most of my mop/wod toys. Ever. Great game design). Now that we have it, they could have still added waterwalking from the artifact fishing pole for example (without having to equip it). Or do a relatively long questchain (even if you have to do it in every zone to gain waterwalking there) with a friendly Skrog who teaches you to waterwalk on the Broken isles. Or add it to Pathfinder part 1 reward as well. The devs are the fucking Gods of Wow, yet they can't come up with ideas.

Edit: typo, clarifications

[Mafic]

Nerfing the water strider's water walk would be the same as grounding people. They should have thought about that when they implemented the strider (I'm scik of all the nerfed toys I have for the same reason. I will never use the Aqua Jewel, which was mostly a cosmetic item for people, and most of my mop/wod toys. Ever. Great game design). Now that we have it, they could have still added waterwalking from the artifact fishing pole for example (without having to equip it). Or do a relatively long questchain with a friendly Skorn who teaches you to waterwalk on the Broken isles. Or add it to Pathfinder as well. Blizz is the fucking God in Wow, yet they can't come up with ideas.

Yes it achieves very similar results...almost identical to ground players by taking away flying to some unknown time table.

WoW devs have to be motivated to make changes through will power and time. Without those two ingredients the only thing left to motivate them is arm twisting from upper level management bean counters or player resistance.

That is why I am surprised to see players are hoping and eager to see some type of announcement for flying in patch 7.2 at Blizzcon I feel sorry for those players hoping for some type of announcement for flying by then. Maybe I am wrong and they do announce flying for patch 7.2 but I have my doubts based on what my insider told me.

*Mafic lowers tin foil hat away gently to the side*

[Eapoe]

Look at the world quest design. They are designed to be finished quickly, so the bulk of time spent is traveling around the terrain. That is how Blizzard artificially stretches content out and so obvious when it takes longer to reach world quest destination than do the world quest itself.

I tested this theory personally, and am challenging you guys to do the same. I decided to pick the longest travel path I could think of, and coupled into with the longest WQ I could think of and settled for Darkbrul Arena with the FP to Thunder Totem (closest one). Going from Dalaran with a glider, I took the FP from Krasus Landing to Thunder Totem, ran east from there and then crossed the river south going up Snowblind Pass, very near the summit I jumped off with a glider (yes, anyone can use these now) and glided into the cave while clicking off the glider to fall into the arena. I then proceeded to complete the quest. Without walking away from the computer or afk'ing one time (and a bit of luck of being unhindered by other players since it is pvp), it took me 5 1/2 minutes to get there and roughly 10 minutes to complete the quest. Travel longer than quest completion my ass. Now, if you want to case by case it, sure, we could look at travel from Dal to Stormheim and jumping the cliff there to get in a boat as that equals about 3 minutes of travel and 2 mins to complete, but this is no where near equal the level you want to make it of 10 mins of travel for a 2 min quest.

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Yes it achieves very similar results...almost identical to ground players by taking away flying to some unknown time table.

WoW devs have to be motivated to make changes through will power and time. Without those two ingredients the only thing left to motivate them is arm twisting from upper level management bean counters or player resistance.

That is why I am surprised to see players are hoping and eager to see some type of announcement for flying in patch 7.2 at Blizzcon I feel sorry for those players hoping for some type of announcement for flying by then. Maybe I am wrong and they do announce flying for patch 7.2 but I have my doubts based on what my insider told me.

*Mafic lowers tin foil hat away gently to the side*

If not 7.2 then simply means that 7.2 is not the middle of the xpac and hopefully Blizzard has lots of more content in store as they have said they want to give more content over the course of the xpac's life.

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Nerfing the water strider's water walk would be the same as grounding people. They should have thought about this "problem" (it's really not a problem) when they implemented the strider (I'm sick of all the nerfed toys I have for the same reason. I will never use the Aqua Jewel, which was mostly a cosmetic item for people, and most of my mop/wod toys. Ever. Great game design). Now that we have it, they could have still added waterwalking from the artifact fishing pole for example (without having to equip it). Or do a relatively long questchain (even if you have to do it in every zone to gain waterwalking there) with a friendly Skrog who teaches you to waterwalk on the Broken isles. Or add it to Pathfinder part 1 reward as well. The devs are the fucking Gods of Wow, yet they can't come up with ideas.

Edit: typo, clarifications

Or, as you can freely change weapons even in combat, you could put on the pole as you run around on your favorite mount (assuming you have the artifact by now).

[l33t]

Or, as you can freely change weapons even in combat, you could put on the pole as you run around on your favorite mount (assuming you have the artifact by now).

So, now I am required to grind fishing artifact to be able to traverse the land without going mental? Right? I wonder if you're a blizzard dev in disguise, since this looks like typical modern blizzard kind of ideas. "We put fishing content in the game, therefore we must make all the players to do it".

Maybe, just maybe, some day we will see an expansion which do not attempt to steal our character's power to give it back year after, and instead it rises our character's power to new heights. I certainly hope so.

[-Joker-]

1.) How about Blizz is getting a grip? They have opened pandorras box, and they don't realize that they can't close it. Trying to shove "no flight til X" down players throat doesn't seem to work in some cases (still more people want flight than people how wish flight to be gone).

2.) Yes immersion is subjective. Tell that to Blizzard who try to use immersion as an argument for delaying / scratching flight in game.

3.) Well yes. Blizzard wanted it, and as far as i see their thick skulled "i want it this way or i go home and take my shiny toy with me"-attitude did harm the game more than flight ever did in the past 9 years before that. If they ever understand that if they have an successful product, they can NOT do what they want but have to do what their customers want. This is like always the case when you become a "slave to your success", playing time is over and businesstime starts. So what to tell Blizzard about flying: deal with it! And bring it back the way it was.... Well i would like the pathfinderway too (just not how it is right now) or better an epic questchain, as long as it wasn't gated behind some stupid "you'll have to wait X-month to finally unlock it".

1. Blizz is still allowing flight in Legion. Later. You wanting it the moment you hit level cap is actually your first world issue, not theirs. They have a successful product and are pleased with the new content and the pace at which it is being released.

2. They use it as an argument because coming out and saying, "The slower you travel the slower you consume content" would just be bad PR. Instead of thinking like a consumer, drop yourself in their shoes and see how this for-profit company actually increases their cash flow. They are not a charity and really don't owe any of us, anything. Sorry if that truth sucks.

3. Your temperament tells me you don't know how to approach this topic objectively and explains why your out bursts are phrased the way they are. Things changed on Draenor. The changes will be in every new expac moving forward. Legion is not the last we have seen of the Pathfinder meta achievements. If this is such a dealbreaker, perhaps it is time to look elsewhere for entertainment.

We are lucky? You know why they made those changes? Blizzard is lucky because if they hadn't made those changes they would have lost many more players. Stop pretending that WoW-players are all addicts that have no choice but to pay and play this game and should be greatful for everything Blizzard throws at them.

Some players are addicts, particularly those who hate change and want to fight tooth and nail with those who would change their world. In this case, it's the devs themselves. They have the power to revert travel back to what it was. Remove the heirloom bike, take 60% mounts back to level 40 and 100% mounts back to 60. Personally, given the number of QoL changes that keep coming with the game, mode of transportation is just not that important.