No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Bun-Bun]

No point going on about this anymore. You are fixated on the fact you have to kill anything to get exalted.

Again, you're wrong. I am fixated on the fact that you are wrong. You have stated falsehoods and refuse to accept information that has be presented to you. You keep insisting on no mob grinds, when there are in fact, mob grinds.

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Its the degree in which this can be utilised. Water based areas that are faster to just ride across vs entire world.
I can probably count those water based areas that you would even consider using this on,on 1 hand.

Again, you're wrong. There are a lot of zones that feature water where the strider is extremely useful. Far more than the digits on your hand.

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In legion.

No, not specific to legion. The entire world. Blizzard disabled the water walking affect for all zones other than Pandaria. This was based on excessive usage of the water strider, not just in beta, but the entire world.

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Too many demons falling from the sky. uncertain territory. blah blah blah, lore done.

This says nothing and just shows your ignorance.

[wing5wong]

Again, you're wrong. I am fixated on the fact that you are wrong. You have stated falsehoods and refuse to accept information that has be presented to you. You keep insisting on no mob grinds, when there are in fact, mob grinds.

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Again, you're wrong. There are a lot of zones that feature water where the strider is extremely useful. Far more than the digits on your hand.

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No, not specific to legion. The entire world. Blizzard disabled the water walking affect for all zones other than Pandaria. This was based on excessive usage of the water strider, not just in beta, but the entire world.

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This says nothing and just shows your ignorance.

You take literally everything i say, and pick and choose the parts you want to comprehend. im done.

[Bun-Bun]

You take literally everything i say, and pick and choose the parts you want to comprehend. im done.

And you are literally wrong about most of what you say yet still defend yourself when presented with facts or choose not to even look at the facts even after asking for them.

[Elim Garak]

Not even close. Dungeons, raids and quests (and professions?) are the cornerstones of WoW

No they are not, and they are not needed.

Not the same, as dungeons, raids, professions, world quests to name some things, offer a progression system of increasing player power.

I didn't say they are the same, I said they are not needed as well. Progression or no progression is irrelevant to the need.

[Eapoe]

No they are not, and they are not needed.

I didn't say they are the same, I said they are not needed as well. Progression or no progression is irrelevant to the need.

They are in fact needed as progression is the basis of the game. When the core design of the gameplay is part of something that is necessitated by progression, it is made into a need. As I stated before, if this is a game where there is no progression of player power and the drive to do just that, then you would be correct, they are not needed.
The game is designed as such that the need is completely relevant.

[Elim Garak]

They are in fact needed as progression is the basis of the game. When the core design of the gameplay is part of something that is necessitated by progression, it is made into a need. As I stated before, if this is a game where there is no progression of player power and the drive to do just that, then you would be correct, they are not needed.
The game is designed as such that the need is completely relevant.

Progression can be done with daily rewards in your mail. Login each day to get loot and xp. There. No need for quests, dungeons and raids. Same principle of progression. You pay, you log in, you progress.

[Eapoe]

Progression can be done with daily rewards in your mail. Login each day to get loot and xp. There. No need for quests, dungeons and raids. Same principle of progression. You pay, you log in, you progress.

Without the raids though, the gear doesn't exist. The loot you get is from the raids. The gear in the lootbox is from that content, unless you are proposing just getting mythic gear from nowhere other than logging in. As it stands, would that even be playing a game or just paying for something? Now, if you are wanting to eliminate endgame content, then sure, we'll go with your proposal. Seeing as how endgame progression though is THE core design of the game, and thereby makes those things necessary, I don't see it happening anytime soon.
If that's something they ever did, I'd be done with the game. Not sure what you're striving for here. If you're wanting me to admit it would ruin the game for me, sure, it would. It would cause me to quit, much to how I've stated I understand why others quit.
As far as need and want though, the game is designed in such a way at this point where flight is not needed to play everything WoD and Legion (again, so far) has to offer, where things like raids/dungeons/world content is.

[wing5wong]

Progression can be done with daily rewards in your mail. Login each day to get loot and xp. There. No need for quests, dungeons and raids. Same principle of progression. You pay, you log in, you progress.

Reductio ad Absurdum.
The one true logic.

[Elim Garak]

Without the raids though, the gear doesn't exist

Gear exists on its own. Raid is just a way to get it in game. It can be mailed daily on login to get you the progression, making raids unneeded.

To reiterate my point: raids, dungeons and quests are not needed. Just like flying is not needed.

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Reductio ad Absurdum.
The one true logic.

So you don't know what reductio ad absurdum is. Thanks for letting us know.

[wing5wong]

Gear exists on its own. Raid is just a way to get it in game. It can be mailed daily on login to get you the progression, making raids unneeded.

To reiterate my point: raids, dungeons and quests are not needed. Just like flying is not needed.

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So you don't know what reductio ad absurdum is. Thanks for letting us know.

You literally took the game away, and said its not needed, like flying.

[Elim Garak]

You literally took the game away, and said its not needed, like flying.

I didn't take the game away, I took certain features of it away, just like flying is a just a feature. Ever played a sandbox game with no quests, dungeons or raids? I guess not.

The point is not about reduction at all to begin with... it's about the NEED. The game doesn't need any of those things they are put into the game to make the game more FUN to play. So although they are not needed they are welcome. Just like flying.

[wing5wong]

I didn't take the game away, I took certain features of it away, just like flying is a just a feature. Ever played a sandbox game with no quests, dungeons or raids? I guess not.

The point is not about reduction at all to begin with... it's about the NEED. The game doesn't need any of those things they are put into the game to make the game more FUN to play. So although they are not needed they are welcome. Just like flying.

/headdesk.

[Elim Garak]

/headdesk.

Don't break the desk.

[Eapoe]

I didn't take the game away, I took certain features of it away, just like flying is a just a feature. Ever played a sandbox game with no quests, dungeons or raids? I guess not.

The point is not about reduction at all to begin with... it's about the NEED. The game doesn't need any of those things they are put into the game to make the game more FUN to play. So although they are not needed they are welcome. Just like flying.

As I stated in my last post you snipped out, WoW is a game where the core design is the endgame content and player progression. The core design makes those things you are talking about a necessity.
The problem with your point is WoW is not the style of sandbox game you are trying to point out. In a very basic way, you are likening it to Minecraft without the actual mining.
On the flip side, and getting back to the main point, nothing for WoD or Legion is designed that makes flight necessary.

[Elim Garak]

As I stated in my last post you snipped out, WoW is a game where the core design is the endgame content and player progression. The core design makes those things you are talking about a necessity.

No it doesn't - you have to prove that.

The problem with your point is WoW is not the style of sandbox game you are trying to point out. In a very basic way, you are likening it to Minecraft without the actual mining.

Mining in Minecraft is the game itself. While questing, dungeons and raids can be removed from wow and you still can play it all the same. Move around find a mob kill it, get xp and loot, rinse and repeat, until you outlevel the zone then move the the next zone.

On the flip side, and getting back to the main point, nothing for WoD or Legion is designed that makes flight necessary.

WoD's landscape made it desirable
Legion's landscape and world quests make it desirable.

[Eapoe]

No it doesn't - you have to prove that.

Mining in Minecraft is the game itself. While questing, dungeons and raids can be removed from wow and you still can play it all the same. Move around find a mob kill it, get xp and loot, rinse and repeat, until you outlevel the zone then move the the next zone.

WoD's landscape made it desirable
Legion's landscape and world quests make it desirable.

Making it desirable does not equal necessity. You're splitting hairs, really poorly honestly. The endgame and progression are THE core design, not sure how many times I need to say this to get it to sink in. It's like you're being willfully ignorant to the facts. Much like this Minecraft comparison, if you take away either you take away the game.
I could even go further...take the mining out of Minecraft, kill a few creepers, get building materials from corpses...mining's not necessary right? Sounds ridiculous right? That's how you are coming off with your comparison of endgame/progression/core mechanics to flight.

[Maudib]

I completely understand now... the moment you said Minecraft... it all makes sense. Ignored.

[Bun-Bun]

They are in fact needed as progression is the basis of the game. When the core design of the gameplay is part of something that is necessitated by progression, it is made into a need. As I stated before, if this is a game where there is no progression of player power and the drive to do just that, then you would be correct, they are not needed.
The game is designed as such that the need is completely relevant.

Opinion, not fact.

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Without the raids though, the gear doesn't exist. The loot you get is from the raids. The gear in the lootbox is from that content, unless you are proposing just getting mythic gear from nowhere other than logging in. As it stands, would that even be playing a game or just paying for something? Now, if you are wanting to eliminate endgame content, then sure, we'll go with your proposal. Seeing as how endgame progression though is THE core design of the game, and thereby makes those things necessary, I don't see it happening anytime soon.
If that's something they ever did, I'd be done with the game. Not sure what you're striving for here. If you're wanting me to admit it would ruin the game for me, sure, it would. It would cause me to quit, much to how I've stated I understand why others quit.
As far as need and want though, the game is designed in such a way at this point where flight is not needed to play everything WoD and Legion (again, so far) has to offer, where things like raids/dungeons/world content is.

You can get gear without dungeons and raids. You don't need those things.

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As I stated in my last post you snipped out, WoW is a game where the core design is the endgame content and player progression. The core design makes those things you are talking about a necessity.
The problem with your point is WoW is not the style of sandbox game you are trying to point out. In a very basic way, you are likening it to Minecraft without the actual mining.
On the flip side, and getting back to the main point, nothing for WoD or Legion is designed that makes flight necessary.

You can do both things things without dungeons/raids/quests.

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Making it desirable does not equal necessity. You're splitting hairs, really poorly honestly. The endgame and progression are THE core design, not sure how many times I need to say this to get it to sink in. It's like you're being willfully ignorant to the facts. Much like this Minecraft comparison, if you take away either you take away the game.
I could even go further...take the mining out of Minecraft, kill a few creepers, get building materials from corpses...mining's not necessary right? Sounds ridiculous right? That's how you are coming off with your comparison of endgame/progression/core mechanics to flight.

And has been pointed out to you dungeons and raids are not a necessity either.

Your minecraft analogy would be better compared to a gameplay mechanic instead of a feature. ie. the ability to attack.

[Elim Garak]

Making it desirable does not equal necessity.

Never said anything about it being a necessity. In fact necessity was your song.
Neither flight, nor questing/dungeons/raiding are needed. All are desirable.

The original idea behind minecraft is mining. Mining is the core of minecraft, it even has "mine" in its title.
You can remove creeps from minecraft - it's still gonna be minecraft, but you cannot remove mining from minecraft.

Quests/Dungeons/Raids - are additional features that provide structure to the core WoW gameplay.
1. Instead of just killing mobs for xp and loot - Quest tells you to kill specific mobs or get specific loot for a reward of bonus xp and loot.
2. Sometimes mobs are located in an enclosed area and there's a sort of progression in it - a Dungeon, sometimes dungeons are a part of open world (like caves in WoW), but in WoW they are instanced. Gameplay is the same in a dungeon. Dungeon can even be compared to a quest - because it is like a quest without being in a journal though. But sometimes there are quests related to the dungeon itself too.
3. Raids are just glorified dungeons for a greater number of people. Same gameplay as in a dungeon as in a quest as in itself.
4. Flight gets you around faster, let's you explore faster and find more quests.

The core of wow (travel, combat and player progression) is the same with or without these features. These features just enhance it.

WoW has world and warcraft in its title. It's a clue.

[Eapoe]

To further elaborate: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/guide/
Under core gameplay are things like: exploration (flight not needed in WoD/Vanilla/Legion), quests, dungeons, and raids.
As far as the caches that have gear, the issue lies that the gear inside them are equal to the highest content your character has access to, without the raids and dungeons that you try to say aren't needed, that gear doesn't exist and the cache would only award questing ilvl items. If you want to turn the game into an MMORPG where all of the lore is told in the open world and higher gear is not necessary to see it, then sure, we could say those aspects aren't needed; however, seeing as the core design of the game is based on these instanced areas, this arguement has no merit.
To Elim: as I stated, it is not necessary, to which you countered desirable. I felt a need to further drive the point home since you try countering a need with a want, which does not add up. As I stated about the dungeons being needed previously in this post, the dungeons and raids contain lore and story within them, making them needed. Take all of that out and make them "kill generic mob A-E for gear," then you have a point.
As far as exploration of the world, again, with what I previously stated multiple times, flight is not required to complete this for current content. That makes it not needed, thereby making it a want, a convenience, and even using your word, desirable for faster travel; but, a need to complete the game it is not. The Minecraft topic was just to be ridiculous to a ridiculous response. I could go on and on about how the game could still exist without it, but it's not going to be popular like it is now.