[Guardian] Legion Discussion

[Dreyen]

...and Ironfur
...and Frenzied Regen
...and the benefit of most artifact traits.

You know when we overgear that it will still happen. Hell, i've tanked some bosses in catform with hotw up already :P

[huth]

...and Ironfur
...and Frenzied Regen
...and the benefit of most artifact traits.

Don't forget that "some HP" can easily be more than 1/3 of your total health. And the lack of bonus threat is kind of a huge thing.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Don't forget that "some HP" can easily be more than 1/3 of your total health. And the lack of bonus threat is kind of a huge thing.

Just look at HOTW cat tanking now. I cat tank Iron Reaver, Council, Kormrok, Zakuun, Kilrogg, and gorefiend.
You just pick up aggro by mangling in the taunt window twice. And dps can never catch up. Then I pop CD's and go kitty.

[huth]

Just look at HOTW cat tanking now. I cat tank Iron Reaver, Council, Kormrok, Zakuun, Kilrogg, and gorefiend.
You just pick up aggro by mangling in the taunt window twice. And dps can never catch up. Then I pop CD's and go kitty.

You still have HotW for that, though. And cats can still dodge, which Moonkins can't due to casting. Not to mention that they have significantly less dodge.
You also need to use Guardian Affinity just to have taunt at all.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

You still have HotW for that, though. And cats can still dodge, which Moonkins can't due to casting. Not to mention that they have significantly less dodge.
You also need to use Guardian Affinity just to have taunt at all.

I think you're missing the point of this discussion? We're discussing if a guardian druid can tank during moonkin form with moonkin affinity. Not a moonkin tanking as moonkin.

[Dreyen]

Tweet that the bear rotation is changing next alpha build:

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...88768200675329

[Valkon]

Tweet that the bear rotation is changing next alpha build:

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...88768200675329

Thanks for the link Dreyen! Really glad to hear they are actually addressing this. Now to cross fingers and hope that translates to something solid

[xskarma]

Tweet that the bear rotation is changing next alpha build:

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...88768200675329

Oh, well that's a nice start to my Saturday.

I'll keep a small amount of hope that they looked at both single target and AoE rotations though I'll settle for them just fixing our AoE tools.

[ikewu83]

Tweet that the bear rotation is changing next alpha build:

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...88768200675329

Cool, but I still sad hotw is away

[Dreyen]

Cool, but I still sad hotw is away

Affinities should still serve a similar purpose, only that it does less burst but it can be used anytime. Moonkin on alpha feels like a significant dps increase compared to bearform.

[ikewu83]

Affinities should still serve a similar purpose, only that it does less burst but it can be used anytime. Moonkin on alpha feels like a significant dps increase compared to bearform.

Nice to hear

[Deleted]

I'm Roq777 from the tweet. I have been badgering them for a while now about the AoE situation on alpha. Surprised more people aren't creating more noise about the spec tbh. Now is the time.

[Valkon]

There's a pretty chunky guardian thread on the alpha forums. I think it's weird that the only way to get a point across is via twitter. But I guess if it works... lol

[ikewu83]

There is new passive at latest alpha call "Gore"
Your Mangle, Thrash, Lacerate, and Moonfire each have a 15% chance to reset the cooldown of Mangle, and cause it to generate an additional 40 Rage.
And Lacerate and Thrash seems no cooldown again!

[Dreyen]

Unless the datamining is missing something, the changes to guardian's rotation aren't very significant. Here's the list of changes:

Set bonuses:
Item - Druid T19 Guardian 2P Bonus (New) Your abilities have an additional 10% chance to trigger Gore and reset the cooldown on Mangle.
Item - Druid T19 Guardian 4P Bonus (New) Mangle increases the duration of your next Ironfur or Frenzied Regeneration by 1,000 sec, stacking up to 3 times.

Rotational changes:
Lacerate & thrash hits harder
Lacerate no longer has a CD
Thrash still has a 6sec cd
Thrash generates 4 rage
Mangle gives 6 rage instead of 5... lol
Mangle, lacerate, moonfire and thrash has a 15% chance to proc a mangle that gives 40 extra rage, aka a free ironfur.

Basically the new rotation is:

Survival: Mangle > Thrash > Maintain moonfire > lacerate filler
ST DPS: Mangle > Maintain moonfire > lacerate spam
Aoe: Thrash > Multidot moonfire... use mangle procs if you want extra survival.

Extra rage from mangle procs seem over the top, but it's neat to see the proc being added to every offensive spell.
Our aoe tools still suck ass, yes thrash hits harder but we need more than one aoe ability every 6s.
Moonfire infinite multidot is still awkward.
We are not forced to put weaksauce thrashes in our rotation for 1 extra ironfur per minute... if only it hit harder than lacerate it wouldn't be as bad. I figure it'll be a drop in the ocean so people will just lacerate anyways, making our rotation the exact same as WoD.

I think it's better than what we had, but our aoe is still garbage thus I'm really not satisfied.

[ikewu83]

Unless the datamining is missing something, the changes to guardian's rotation aren't very significant. Here's the list of changes:

Set bonuses:
Item - Druid T19 Guardian 2P Bonus (New) Your abilities have an additional 10% chance to trigger Gore and reset the cooldown on Mangle.
Item - Druid T19 Guardian 4P Bonus (New) Mangle increases the duration of your next Ironfur or Frenzied Regeneration by 1,000 sec, stacking up to 3 times.

Rotational changes:
Lacerate & thrash hits harder
Lacerate no longer has a CD
Thrash still has a 6sec cd
Thrash generates 4 rage
Mangle gives 6 rage instead of 5... lol
Mangle, lacerate, moonfire and thrash has a 15% chance to proc a mangle that gives 40 extra rage, aka a free ironfur.

Basically the new rotation is:

Survival: Mangle > Thrash > Maintain moonfire > lacerate filler
ST DPS: Mangle > Maintain moonfire > lacerate spam
Aoe: Thrash > Multidot moonfire... use mangle procs if you want extra survival.

Extra rage from mangle procs seem over the top, but it's neat to see the proc being added to every offensive spell.
Our aoe tools still suck ass, yes thrash hits harder but we need more than one aoe ability every 6s.
Moonfire infinite multidot is still awkward.
We are not forced to put weaksauce thrashes in our rotation for 1 extra ironfur per minute... if only it hit harder than lacerate it wouldn't be as bad. I figure it'll be a drop in the ocean so people will just lacerate anyways, making our rotation the exact same as WoD.

I think it's better than what we had, but our aoe is still garbage thus I'm really not satisfied.

I guess haste back on the stage, and haste/mastery will be new mastery/multistrike combo^_^

[Dreyen]

Well mastery is very likely to be our main stat, and hopefully it will because high hp hype.

Crit however does absolutely nothing for our survival on alpha, so I'm guessing they are still thinking of something. hopefully it's more involved than crit=dodge

[xskarma]

Well mastery is very likely to be our main stat, and hopefully it will because high hp hype.

Crit however does absolutely nothing for our survival on alpha, so I'm guessing they are still thinking of something. hopefully it's more involved than crit=dodge

Or even worse, they think that Crit can be our go to stat if we want to concentrate on damage, and doesn;t get any survival added to it at all. Stranger things have happened.


I also agree, rotation changes are welcome, but I was hoping they'd adress our ability to AoE, which they basically haven't done at all. Hopefully to be continued...

[Nythiz]

Ye this didn't really change that much to be frank.

I had some hope that the announced changes to bear rotation simply didn't make it in this update patch.
But the blue post on the frontpage mentions:

• Guardian Druids – Their core offensive combat abilities have received significant changes. Hopefully this should create more engaging gameplay.

( ︶︿︶)

[Dreyen]

Ye this didn't really change that much to be frank.

I had some hope that the announced changes to bear rotation simply didn't make it in this update patch.
But the blue post on the frontpage mentions:

• Guardian Druids – Their core offensive combat abilities have received significant changes. Hopefully this should create more engaging gameplay.

( ︶︿︶)

Well, our single targer survival rotation did change quite a bit. Also we're forced to lose dps by using thrash on cd for an extra ironfur per minute now... it wouldn't be that bad if it did more or equal damage as lacerate did, but we have to gimp our dps for it. I'd prefer if our dps alternative to survival was only maul.

- - - Updated - - -

Or even worse, they think that Crit can be our go to stat if we want to concentrate on damage, and doesn;t get any survival added to it at all. Stranger things have happened.

I think we're well past the time where stats only give survival or only give dps honestly, they can't leave crit like that or nobody will ever pick it. Having a gear of 0 survival just to pad dps is not exactly engaging gameplay.