New Storm, Earth, and Fire in LEGION

[mbrmbr]

Quote from the 'Legion Class and Systems Community Amphitheater Discussion' at Blizzcon 2015:

The new Storm, Earth, and Fire is being simplified and made more intuitive. It will be a simple toggle, somewhat similar to Blade Flurry.
You turn it on and split into three, turn it off and you recombine into one. They won't attack the same target as you, but they will find something nearby to attack. You do lose the customizability of assigning targets, but it will do something useful at all times.

I know it is early, and can of course change before LEGION etc. etc.

Just want to hear what all you other Windwalkers think about this change.

Personally I would like it to stay the way it is now... but maybe it is possible to make a glyph to make it work like it used to, so win-win?

[Cracked]

Yes, I think the current SEF is iconic to WW.

[Metaslave]

Sounds like it'll be pointless with 2 targets. I don't like the lack of control either.
All I want is for them to inherit my buffs and to be able to cast FoF on the move. That way I don't have to babysit them as much.

[mbrmbr]

Yea, both ways have pros and cons.

I wish they can make a glyph, so we can choose how we want it to work.

[zemerax]

I like the change it'll help out alot of lower skilled players or people confused by the current spell. However I don't agree 100% with the lack of control, I'd prefer if they made a glyph to revert it back to the old one.

[mbrmbr]

...I'd prefer if they made a glyph to revert it back to the old one.

I hope this is the case for most WWs Let's just hope it isn't technically difficult to make a glyph like that. If it's easy to make, I don't see why they wouldn't give us that choice.

[Deleted]

I really hate that change, may be the last nail in the coffin for my WW. The approach of just dumbing it down and making it toggle for aoe (it reads like it won't even work for 2 targets?) instead of fixing QOL/gameplay issues with SEF like problem with clear tracking RSK/TP/TEB debuffs/buffs on your clones, inconsistency with trinkets/ring, flying targets/moving issues, is just plain stupid.

SEF is IMO the most iconic WW spell and one of the last completely unique and exciting mechanic, that really makes you think how to use it correctly and optimize it on any given encounter in the game that got rid of most of them (festerblight/meta trick/snapshotting etc.)
SEF is not only a cleave tool, No other melee dps and even ranged (i guess multidot is similar to that but without snapshotting its not the same anymore) can splittarget multiple SPREAD targets, no other melee can help on adds/targets that are percieved as ranged only (dread infernals on mannoroth are great example of that, same for dreadstalkers on archi).

Turning such complex and multi-purpose mechanic into fire and forget aoe tool that you cannot even control? (I wonder how would it work with clones randomly attacking adds that are being kitted, you just cannot use it on such fights or what?). Big no no for me. I really hope that blizzard changes mind on that during beta but seeing how gameplay of multiple spec is getting easier and easier every expansion my hopes aren't too big.

[Deleted]

SEF is one of the clunkiest and awkward spells in the entire game's history. Never has a spell caused players as much trouble and problem as this one. Honestly, all you need to do is look at the SEF tooltip. A spell that is a literal mini pamphlet in terms of its word size needs to go. No single spell should be this complex.

Even if so much complexity in one spell is good, SEF itself is so damn clunky. Trying to send out your clones, having to macro your spell properly, then cancelling them after 10 seconds of combat and trying to bring them, it's so awkward and often happens to slow or ends up sending them back out instead of bringing them in.

I'm sad to see the customisability go because when SEF is used properly it is honestly one of the best spells in the game but at the same time I don't like it being so clunky. Blade flurry is a great spell to be honest, I feel that's how it should be.

[dippinsawse]

SEF is one of the clunkiest and awkward spells in the entire game's history. Never has a spell caused players as much trouble and problem as this one. Honestly, all you need to do is look at the SEF tooltip. A spell that is a literal mini pamphlet in terms of its word size needs to go. No single spell should be this complex.

Even if so much complexity in one spell is good, SEF itself is so damn clunky. Trying to send out your clones, having to macro your spell properly, then cancelling them after 10 seconds of combat and trying to bring them, it's so awkward and often happens to slow or ends up sending them back out instead of bringing them in.

I'm sad to see the customisability go because when SEF is used properly it is honestly one of the best spells in the game but at the same time I don't like it being so clunky. Blade flurry is a great spell to be honest, I feel that's how it should be.

Sure, but that doesn't mean they should change it the way they are. This rework creates new issues of its own while failing to fix the main issues with the ability.

[Ayr]

Keep in mind that we represent a group that tends to really understand the class and really get it nailed down to get all we can out of it.

I talked to so many WW players here, and even BMs and MWs that have WW as an OS. One of the overwhelming complaints about playing WW is that SEF is clunky (as said above) and really hard to use properly. Go out in the world, look at LFR, how many times do you see WWs cloning single target?

This is a change that would make it easier to play for the vast majority of players, at the expense of the extra control. It's really interesting, but there are a lot of things to be looked into (range, buff copying, how intelligent is the AI). The devs seem REALLY excited about it though, and for most people is probably a good change.

[Florena]

Aww I really like the way it works now. It could use a tweak or two but I like being able to specify what target(s) they go to. Oh well.

[Pull My Finger]

SEF is the biggest nonsense spell in the whole game. Whatever they do to it, it can only get better.

[Honak]

They're pretty much ruining the spell. The ability to choose what targets they attack is what makes SEF so good. Just hitting a button and then my clones go and attack an imp across the room that the ranged will kill before the clone even gets there only for it to swap to a new imp that'll die in the same way is pointless. Not to mention unless they change it so both clones can hit the same target, it'll be completely useless for 2 target situations. Sure it makes it easier for the LFR heroes who don't understand how the spell works, but why does everything in this game have to be catered to those people? It also won't change anything for the people who don't know how the spell works. You're still going to have some people popping the spell on a pure single target situation and have 2 clones sitting next to you doing nothing and you doing less damage because of it. They changed the spell and didn't fix any of the actual issues with it.

It may be one of the clunkiest spells ever put in the game, but your clone management was a massive part of what made you a good or a great WW. People who fully understood clones and how to manage them properly were going to do more damage, simple as that. Now it's going to be all RNG as to whether or not your clone's AI chose the right target to go to. I agree the spell needed some changes, but this is stupid.

I hope this is the case for most WWs Let's just hope it isn't technically difficult to make a glyph like that. If it's easy to make, I don't see why they wouldn't give us that choice.

They announced the removal of major glyphs from the game. I highly doubt something that would change the mechanic of a new version of a spell back to an old version would be allowed to be put in as a minor glyph. The way minor glyphs are also going to work now is quite different than before.

[Notter]

With this change, I will not be playing a WW monk next expansion.
I think it's much wiser to go with rogue or demon hunter for this kind of melee.

1. I don't trust the developers to be able to balance SEF. we have seen the shit is caused all over this expansion, which left WW in the state it is now.
2. I don't trust guild leaders to not tell you to not use it. at least in my guild, I always get told "pure ST, no clones, we need to focus this target fast".
3. Having less control on this ability, only make it worst than it is right now.

BUT!
there's is one thing that can change my mind.
and that's if they make it so the clones don't reduce your main target damage.

[mbrmbr]

They announced the removal of major glyphs from the game. I highly doubt something that would change the mechanic of a new version of a spell back to an old version would be allowed to be put in as a minor glyph. The way minor glyphs are also going to work now is quite different than before.

Aaah right, I remember them saying that now that you mention it... too bad!

Well, one can still hope I really like how SEF is now... hate it when they remove fun stuff (still miss my Spinning Fire Blossom )

On the bright side, if they remove more fun things from WW, it will be easier to leave my monk behind and main a Demon Hunter

[Austilias]

Nothing can be as bad as Rune of Power.

In any case, the change looks fine; so long as it only attacks targets who are already in combat. The last thing we need in this game is another Barrage.

[SaucyThighs]

Gotta love nerfing the skill cap of a class. SEF was easily one of the biggest contributors to making a great windwalker stand out. I wish they just removed the internal GCD and updated the tooltip.

[Deleted]

SEF is one of the reasons I hated WW in WoD, all those balance problems and just shitty to use. Welcome that change.

[Ayr]

We know what we know so far. We don't know HOW the AI works just yet, so anyone who is saying they will attack the wrong target is speculating. It should be better phrased as "We hope the implementation means a smart AI is working" - at this point we know nothing.

Questions / concerns should be phrased as that, outrage that "They are dumb and will attack the wrong stuff!" Is 100% misplaced at this time.

[mbrmbr]

SEF is one of the reasons I hated WW in WoD, all those balance problems and just shitty to use. Welcome that change.

I'm the complete opposite: SEF is one of the reasons I loved raiding in WoD SEF on Iron Maidens and Hellfire High Council makes WW feel OP

...but I do see that this change has some good sides to it... just wish they will let us choose between current version and new version.

(...ofc the new version would probably work pretty good on those two fights that I mentioned... LOL... anyway, carry on )

edit2: Now that I think again, it is pretty nice to be able to choose to only dps 2 targets on those fights sometimes... don't know how that would work with new version...