[Mage] Legion: General Information and Discussion

[Deleted]

Did anyone answer what does "and causes you to deal massive damage" mean on the Arcane Artifact talent concerning Evocation? I don't remember reading anything about it and I had googled for it. But I may have missed a few messages in the past few weeks.

[Imnick]

We can't play as Arcane yet, if we could we couldn't reach that trait yet, so we still only know what was on the tooltip (not a lot).

[Deleted]

Any guess what it might mean? It's pretty weird. Will it explode on completion or maybe pulse around the mage?

Hrm, yeah, pulsing it might be..

[Deleted]

I dont get why so many people here are surprised that we got the least changes, we are mages ffs. There is only so much you can do with the most basic fucking fantasy of all time, we shoot fire or frost thats it. Arcane has some leeway, but not much imo. I do agree some mechanics needs to be looked over, but we are mages, we wil lalways end up with Dalaran, Bolts of fire or frost and such. Its bound to happen.

[gyrados]

fire looks awesome for legion

[HHGaming]

Other classes: "Noooo, too many changes, we don't want this! Blah blah"

Mage: "Why nothing changes?"

True story

[Obelisk Kai]

I wonder (and hope) if we are due changes once the beta returns in the new year.

After all, the Death Knight's had several new talents (Tortured Spirits) that have already been removed in favour of something that looks more interesting...who is to say we aren't in line for similar treatment?

As has been mentioned a few times, a couple of our talent rows don't make sense and in other cases are hopeless generic. I maybe wrong, but as it stands I think we are at the upper end of the scale concerning talents shared between the specs.

I gotta be honest, I am a little surprised Arcane didn't get a version of 'Black Hole' as an alternative to Ring of Frost.

Our talents MAY not change much between now and Legion's release but we can always hope, and with some basis, that maybe more love and attention is coming our way.

I choose to be hopeful on this matter, but realistic.

[Tyze]

Or saying that Hansol can't play frost because he's playing mostly fire.
.

Hansol has said he know nothing about Frost haha

[Northem]

Did anyone answer what does "and causes you to deal massive damage" mean on the Arcane Artifact talent concerning Evocation? I don't remember reading anything about it and I had googled for it. But I may have missed a few messages in the past few weeks.

Any guess what it might mean? It's pretty weird. Will it explode on completion or maybe pulse around the mage?

Hrm, yeah, pulsing it might be..

Maybe I'll be too enthusiastic, but from my point of view [Aegwynn's Ascendance] might work as follows:

While the mage channels [Evocation], a tornado of mystical energies begins to swirl around him, turning him invulnerable. The enemies in a moderate area around the mage will be progressively affected by the magical windstorm, being slowed and attracted to the mage, so that we can see that the magic swirl tries to suck the enemies into the center of the area of effect (the mage). When the mage finishes to channel [Evocation], a massive wave of pure magic will emanate from himself, violently repelling and damaging all enemies that are found around.

I let your minds to imagine the stunning graphic effects that could be used for these purposes; I simply imagine it as the "Word of Power" spell that Gandalf uses in the "The Battle for Middle-Earth" game, whereof you can admire in several videos here.

[Deleted]

I mean, this is still Alpha, so don't take this as if the sky is falling (this is more like an anecdote to show WoW overall balance of the present and the past), but I saw in several streaming how simple for affli locks and boomkins is to fight vs 4-5 NPC, talking with chat (so without paying much attention), kill them all (the npcs ), and ending full hp (affli) or a bit less (boomkin) in the process. Then we have fire mages that can barely kill 2 NPC, have to focus a bit to not completely mess up everything, and kill them with 20-30% hp left.

This is the thing that frustrates me the most. I can go on my hunter/warlock and have a great time doing my questing, soloing old stuff, etc... On my mage i can BARELY kill some elites without using major cooldowns and C'Thun-forbid someone else comes in and ganks me when im at 15% health. I am likely to reroll warlock and use a mage transmog instead of suffering from being the only class without self-heals. And please don't give me that crap about "avoiding damage/shield" - that is so pointless. Unless you actually give us Mana Shield back or something that can actually keep us alive outside of that PW: Shield Ice Barrier's 30-sec cooldown.

[Orrin]

I dont get why so many people here are surprised that we got the least changes, we are mages ffs. There is only so much you can do with the most basic fucking fantasy of all time, we shoot fire or frost thats it. Arcane has some leeway, but not much imo. I do agree some mechanics needs to be looked over, but we are mages, we wil lalways end up with Dalaran, Bolts of fire or frost and such. Its bound to happen.

It's not basic fantasy, it's basic mechanics.

[Deleted]

Maybe I'll be too enthusiastic, but from my point of view [Aegwynn's Ascendance] might work as follows:

While the mage channels [Evocation], a tornado of mystical energies begins to swirl around him, turning him invulnerable. The enemies in a moderate area around the mage will be progressively affected by the magical windstorm, being slowed and attracted to the mage, so that we can see that the magic swirl tries to suck the enemies into the center of the area of effect (the mage). When the mage finishes to channel [Evocation], a massive wave of pure magic will emanate from himself, violently repelling and damaging all enemies that are found around.

I let your minds to imagine the stunning graphic effects that could be used for these purposes; I simply imagine it as the "Word of Power" spell that Gandalf uses in the "The Battle for Middle-Earth" game, whereof you can admire in several videos here.

I honestly hope we can deal the damage to our target, since playing "melee" mage (HFC fire - my actual build) is some real pain. Many boss mechanisms target ranged players regardless of their actual position, so running to melee range (for casting Dragon's Breath - live or Evocation - Legion) is always a dangerous move and the mage player must be 100% sure that no such boss ability is about to occur. The current fire is a high skillcap spec (few mages play it regardless how madly it outperforms frost and how reliable its dmg output compared to arcane's) headed with this semi-melee gameplay; sadly the latter makes this otherwise great build really unfun If the immunity given by Evocation means that we are not a legal target any more then it gives some hope that playing semi-melee arcane won't be as bad as playing the current fire. Also the low CD on our Blink might allows us to Blink in, Evo then Blink back. This concept still seems uncomfortable but less painful than HFC fire. On the other hand i have no idea if DB will remain that powerful as it is now - i hope not, since playing DB as a core part of our ST rotation is the worst mage design ever happened (and i'm not that typical whiner mage, since i have no problem with Prismatic Crystal and Rune of Power combined).

[Orrin]

This is the thing that frustrates me the most. I can go on my hunter/warlock and have a great time doing my questing, soloing old stuff, etc... On my mage i can BARELY kill some elites without using major cooldowns and C'Thun-forbid someone else comes in and ganks me when im at 15% health. I am likely to reroll warlock and use a mage transmog instead of suffering from being the only class without self-heals. And please don't give me that crap about "avoiding damage/shield" - that is so pointless. Unless you actually give us Mana Shield back or something that can actually keep us alive outside of that PW: Shield Ice Barrier's 30-sec cooldown.

According to some, you and me are stupid, Mages are fine and l2p.

[Northem]

I honestly hope we can deal the damage to our target, since playing "melee" mage (HFC fire - my actual build) is some real pain. Many boss mechanisms target ranged players regardless of their actual position, so running to melee range (for casting Dragon's Breath - live or Evocation - Legion) is always a dangerous move and the mage player must be 100% sure that no such boss ability is about to occur. The current fire is a high skillcap spec (few mages play it regardless how madly it outperforms frost and how reliable its dmg output compared to arcane's) headed with this semi-melee gameplay; sadly the latter makes this otherwise great build really unfun If the immunity given by Evocation means that we are not a legal target any more then it gives some hope that playing semi-melee arcane won't be as bad as playing the current fire. Also the low CD on our Blink might allows us to Blink in, Evo then Blink back. This concept still seems uncomfortable but less painful than HFC fire. On the other hand i have no idea if DB will remain that powerful as it is now - i hope not, since playing DB as a core part of our ST rotation is the worst mage design ever happened (and i'm not that typical whiner mage, since i have no problem with Prismatic Crystal and Rune of Power combined).

Yes, I agree that melee spells are very "uncomfortable" for us, such as [Dragon's Breath] or [Arcane Explosion] for example.
I would only allow the use of melee spells defensively, but of course not as damage spells to be used in our rotations...

However, the problem that I see in [Aegwynn's Ascendance] as well as other spells like [Cauterizing Blink] is that they are spells too polyvalent, i.e. they have so many different uses that they may become counterproductive, for instance:

[Cauterizing Blink] can be used to: move quickly, break stuns, heal

[Aegwynn's Ascendance] can be used to: obtain immunity, do damage, restore mana

Maybe I'm the only one, but I am against that a simple spell has so many different uses, I prefer to have 3 different spells so that I can have more flexibility.

[Obelisk Kai]

According to some, you and me are stupid, Mages are fine and l2p.

To be fair, I'd be happy without self heals as long as our defensives are strong enough to compensate.

So far the only good news we have on this front is Ice Barrier baseline with a two and a half times increase on it's effectiveness (more for Frost Mages).

But at the moment it appears the rest of them are a bit of a mess.

NOBODY likes Ice Block being a talent after all, especially with two charges making it essentially mandatory.

Greater Invisibility (aka Invisibility that actually works) being made Arcane only is really annoying (especially for me personally as from what I've seen, Arcane is my least favorite so far) when it was perfectly fine being a talent. The Arcane talent they've dreamed up to replace it is terrible as well.

We have to assume there is more coming defensively for Mages...not in terms of sheer content (although seeing what fire and frost get to compensate for Greater Invis being baseline to Arcane will be interesting) but in terms of making it fun and elegant.

At the moment we have a dog's dinner, but we only have alpha to judge on so we can hold out hope. LONG way to go after all and hopefully they are taking our feedback on board.

[Northem]

To be fair, I'd be happy without self heals as long as our defensives are strong enough to compensate.

So far the only good news we have on this front is Ice Barrier baseline with a two and a half times increase on it's effectiveness (more for Frost Mages).

But at the moment it appears the rest of them are a bit of a mess.

Well, I completely agree with you, a mage healing himself is something I wouldn't like to see... HOWEVER we do need real "tools" to address the lack of healings, and I want to make special emphasis on REAL tools.

In fact, [Ice Barrier] it's just a step in that direction, but nonetheless insufficient, not to mention the aversion that Arcane and Fire mages suffer by being forced to use a frost spell...

Honestly, as an Arcane Mage, I would have preferred a renovated [Mana Shield] instead of having to "cover my body with ice" in order to protect myself...

NOBODY likes Ice Block being a talent after all, especially with two charges making it essentially mandatory.

Well, I personally have no problem with [Ice Block] being a talent, and what's more, I would be very happy if [Ice Block] was an exclusive talent for frost mages. Why I say that? Simply because, as an Arcane mage of such a high level, I find absurd to have to enclose myself into an ice cube... I would rather use an "arcanist trick" to achieve the same effects ...

But you're right, currently [Ice Block] seems so essential that hardly anyone could live without it. What is the solution? Well, instead of allowing all mages use [Ice Block], I prefer that the Arcane and Fire mages have other tools at their disposal to provide them the same advantages.

For example, I would be willing to renounce [Ice Block] in exchange for an improved [Evanesce], as long as both provide the same advantages, albeit in different ways.

Greater Invisibility (aka Invisibility that actually works) being made Arcane only is really annoying (especially for me personally as from what I've seen, Arcane is my least favorite so far) when it was perfectly fine being a talent. The Arcane talent they've dreamed up to replace it is terrible as well.

We have to assume there is more coming defensively for Mages...not in terms of sheer content (although seeing what fire and frost get to compensate for Greater Invis being baseline to Arcane will be interesting) but in terms of making it fun and elegant.

As for [Invisibility] well, it really should be an "escape" spell, and not a "momentary avoidance of damage" spell, but hey, that's my view.

In fact, in line with the above, I prefer that [Shimmer] is replaced by [Greater Invisibility], at least that way, when things get ugly, people could choose whether be enclosed within an ice cube or rather vanish into thin air ...

[Raetary]

Found this on another Thread, suddenly not worst build ever http://i.imgur.com/GVNgf5N.png

someone said its dalaran above kharazan. it looks fantastic imo.

[gallamann]

I am not a fan at all of Ice Block, it stops you from doing anything. Closest you come to that in game is Divine Shield and even that allows the paladin to take actions.

We are mages, masters of magic, Ice Block is not what any master of magic would come up with. Greater Invis/Evanescence are on the other hand. Ice Block doesn't let a mage do the only thing a mage is capable of doing... damage. Whereas both Evan and GI both let us counter damage while continuing to be a mage.

There's a reason I do all outdoor achievements/rep grinds on my ret paladin over my mage, it's near impossible to die as a ret paladin whereas a solid chunk of elites on my mage I have to work my ass off to even kill. Then after the fight it is a flash heal and moving vs. sitting for 10+ seconds and eating. When your grinding NPC's, having to eat can easily double the time you will spend, it's already a grind, why do it on a toon that increases the grind! Put a different way, I actually have to be negligent to kill my paladin.

A large part of this is because they made MI a talent and removed it from baseline in MoP. Simply making MI baseline (aggro, low damage, and more HP's) again; while maintaining the talent as a replacement to base version, would greatly reduce our need for a heal.

[Polarthief]

According to some, you and me are stupid, Mages are fine and l2p.

Because some people are magically chilling-and/or-freezing mobs that are not snareable-nor-rootable, and we should just get on their level.

Also not a huge fan of the whole "kill or be killed" mentality that we have when soloing for the most part. Avoiding damage is nigh impossible when you can't CC a mob and you don't have many tools when things are actually targeting you.


As for healing, I'd love to see a unique Mage "heal" similar to Alter Time/Temporal Shield (now that it's gone). Instead of the whole "I activate this, you better not touch me or it gets reverted!", what if we had a medium-ish cooldown that let us revert, let's say, ~50% of damage that just happened within ~5s? Weaker than AT and TS, but much more useful in a pinch (plus, we need more time-based spells now that Alter Time is gone).

[Obelisk Kai]

I am not a fan at all of Ice Block, it stops you from doing anything. Closest you come to that in game is Divine Shield and even that allows the paladin to take actions.

We are mages, masters of magic, Ice Block is not what any master of magic would come up with. Greater Invis/Evanescence are on the other hand. Ice Block doesn't let a mage do the only thing a mage is capable of doing... damage. Whereas both Evan and GI both let us counter damage while continuing to be a mage.

There's a reason I do all outdoor achievements/rep grinds on my ret paladin over my mage, it's near impossible to die as a ret paladin whereas a solid chunk of elites on my mage I have to work my ass off to even kill. Then after the fight it is a flash heal and moving vs. sitting for 10+ seconds and eating. When your grinding NPC's, having to eat can easily double the time you will spend, it's already a grind, why do it on a toon that increases the grind! Put a different way, I actually have to be negligent to kill my paladin.

A large part of this is because they made MI a talent and removed it from baseline in MoP. Simply making MI baseline (aggro, low damage, and more HP's) again; while maintaining the talent as a replacement to base version, would greatly reduce our need for a heal.

Gonna strongly disagree with the sentiment expressed here. Ice Block does stop you from doing anything, yes but it gives you near total immunity as a result.

Whether the existence of the spell itself is incompatible with the fantasy of being a Mage as you see it is immaterial to the fact that Ice Block is a baseline spell Mages have used now for years. It is unfair to remove such a useful tool from our baseline abilities when Paladins get to keep their version baseline. It is also a deeply damaging talent, as neither Cauterize or Shimmer can compare to a two charge Ice Block.

As for Mirror Images, I disagree here as well. People tend to forget that Mirror Images was done as a baseline spell come WoD. It's main role, a threat drop, was no longer relevant to the majority of the game's content (and even baseline Invisbility does a better job of THAT particular role) and the PVP aspect of extra targets dealing weak damage simply was not sufficient justification to maintain it. It was either getting culled or becoming a DPS cooldown.
Thankfully, it became a DPS cooldown (albeit a badly botched one...it needs work) and was saved for all Mages. Suggesting a return to a status quo in Blizzard's new era of pruning isn't going to happen. They are more likely to simply cut the spell entirely...and as one of our more distinctive abilities that would be nothing short of a tragedy.