[Mage] Legion: General Information and Discussion

[Ryken]

Artifact perks are not 'baseline', just so you're aware, any more than tier gear bonuses.

Yeah. So where are those sorts of talents for PvE.

Oh, I forgot. We're not supposed to have any utility or soloing ability as mages. My mistake.

Your joking right? Of course artifact talents are considered baseline, its not even remotely comparable to tier pieces. Anyone has the ability to, via solo play, max out their artifact. There is nothing stopping someone from having a max weapon. If you play more, you're gonna get it faster. And anyone discussing how viable the weapon will be in Raids, PvP or end game content will have the artifact maxed. That's like saying our learned spells aren't base line, because you don't have them from level 1. Of course someone who stops at level 30 isn't going to have all the spells, because you know, they didn't put in the time or effort for something that was available for them to do on their own.

Blinking over the place, putting down mass slows, and ground energy fields, they are in PvE... my god you're just the worst.

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To put it bluntly Seneca, my walls of text are trying to demonstrate that things are subjective. Didactic is complaining about things saying they ARE this way and they're NOT this way. I'm saying they CAN be this way. There is no way any game developer can make everyone happy. I'm seeing a lot of instances where things can be fun, at least for me. Things can be compelling and give choices, but its clear a lot of you are all "Well Rune of Power was crap, therefore it will be my go to example that will shoot down your argument".

Its clear you guys are trying to pick and choose and not see the whole thing. Rune of power is crap, therefore Arcane is crap. Time anomaly is crap therefore arcane pvp is crap. Shimmer is crap therefore we have no choice in survivability. You guys deal in absolutes. If something is crap, focus on IT being crap, not how the sky is falling because it is causes some catastrophic issue that kills the spec.

Also, because I say ONE aspect of RNG (Accumulator) makes for a fun variation, you go ahead and say "WELL IF YOU KEEP ON ADDING MORE RANDOM GAMEPLAY IT COMPILES THE ISSUE"... really... accumulator being one random thing in a raid... not a bad thing, because there ISN'T layered RNG. So having one thing that can change your gameplay is FINE and not only fine but -interesting-. But your response? BUT WHAT IF THEY ADD MORE!! Seriously...

I also wasn't saying anything about fire, its all been about Arcane. So giving examples about how arcane has no choice or compelling gameplay by showing how boring you think fire is... I don't see your point.

[antelope591]

Just from browsing through the arcane talents and messing around a bit (server's basically unplayable atm) I think it looks quite promising. Erosion and quickening will find use and probably put arcane mage at #1 on single target for another expansion. Obviously too early to say without raid testing but I can see it.....hell someone will probably find a crazy playstyle that gets quickening nerfed. Also clear difference in talents depending on soloing, aoeing, single target. Definitely like what I'm seeing more than with fire so far.

[Shullski]

You guys in the mage community are so damn toxic. Seems like a few of you in here (wont name names) simply have their heart set on disliking whatever Blizzard puts out.

Mage player here since late 06...the changes have me very excited.

[Seneca]

To put it bluntly Seneca, my walls of text are trying to demonstrate that things are subjective.

Okay, lot's of things are subjective, I agree, but not all of them. I mean, we can all agree that spells like Time Anomaly imply an enormous amount of randomness, can't we?

Didactic is complaining about things saying they ARE this way and they're NOT this way. I'm saying they CAN be this way.

Okay, some things can be seen by different PoVs and used in different ways, I agree, generally speaking.

There is no way any game developer can make everyone happy.

Fine, but this is not an excuse to not try to make as many players as happy as possible. I don't think they nailed it in very large amount of cases, even though it was obvious and still is (RoP, or, if we want, Surrender to Madness, or 1000 other things really). They know the majority is not fine with some things, but they persevere, most of the time.

I'm seeing a lot of instances where things can be fun, at least for me.

Fine, for me too to be completely honest, but things are much more complex than that. For example, Surrender to Madness is, personally speaking, such a fun spell I must say. But, let's check the other PoVs: can't be usable in rated PvP, can't be usable while soloing, can't be usable in raids unless the boss is next to dying, has not to be used if you have to move, has not to be used if you are going to get CC'ed, has not to be used if you have to do other things which is not the DPS rotation, the CD is enormous so it demands perfect usage (as if the sacrifice already doesn't), etc., etc..

Is the arguably fun spell worth the talent slot? I don't think so.

Sorry if I take a priest spell as an example, but I thought it was very on point.

Things can be compelling and give choices, but its clear a lot of you are all "Well Rune of Power was crap, therefore it will be my go to example that will shoot down your argument".

I am sorry but some things are just flat out better than other things. If, let's say, spec/talent 1 does A, B and C and spec 2 does A and B, spec/talent 1 is flat out better.

Some things can't be argued about.

but its clear a lot of you are all "Well Rune of Power was crap, therefore it will be my go to example that will shoot down your argument".

If I had to write all my complaints about the mage class I would probably die by old age first, so I keep it clear and simple. The RoP example is something everyone can grasp, more or less, so I did it.

Its clear you guys are trying to pick and choose and not see the whole thing. Rune of power is crap, therefore Arcane is crap. Time anomaly is crap therefore arcane pvp is crap. Shimmer is crap therefore we have no choice in survivability. You guys deal in absolutes. If something is crap, focus on IT being crap, not how the sky is falling because it is causes some catastrophic issue that kills the spec.

I've never said "rune of power is crap so arcane is crap" and all the other things.

But yes, if a spec has 1 weak CC spell and another spec has 5 strong CC spells, forgive my basic mind, but I conclude that the former has a way weaker CC arsenal than the latter, even if my argument is based on theory only (let alone the fact the most of the time is based on practice too, but this is another story).

Also, because I say ONE aspect of RNG (Accumulator) makes for a fun variation, you go ahead and say "WELL IF YOU KEEP ON ADDING MORE RANDOM GAMEPLAY IT COMPILES THE ISSUE"... really... accumulator being one random thing in a raid... not a bad thing, because there ISN'T layered RNG.

You were not fine with "us people" complaining about the randomness they added to the arcane spec. Atleast, this is what I quoted in my first post and replied too. You didn't say "hey accumulator looks like an interesting rng passive btw". Nvm, I'll pay more attention next time, maybe you did write something like that and I missed it.

So having one thing that can change your gameplay is FINE and not only fine but -interesting-.

I agree, generally speaking.

But your response? BUT WHAT IF THEY ADD MORE!! Seriously...

They added more, it has nothing to do with suppositions mate. Also, the point is not only about pure RNG numbers, but also about situational spells, even though you think that we have lots of meaningful and different choices.

As a side note, it is not clear to me if you are talking about arcane only (I guess so), if you are talking about raid only (no idea, consdering that you talked about Time Anomaly, etc.), and if you are talking about DPS rotations only.

I am afraid I can't add anything else if I am not sure about that.

[Recom]

Yeah, "messed up" might be a bit overstated. I'm ok with all the points, but number 3? Hopefully just a bug.

I hope not. It is a way of balancing this shitty trait. It'll still be problematic and RNG but way way way less than the previous version so it might be ok.

[Polarthief]

You guys in the mage community are so damn toxic. Seems like a few of you in here (wont name names) simply have their heart set on disliking whatever Blizzard puts out.

Mage player here since late 06...the changes have me very excited.

Arcane's looking solid TBH. Fire, Frost, their defensive capabilities, and talents as a whole (for Arcane too) are pretty dreadful in comparison.

I don't dislike whatever Blizz puts out, I dislike retarded designs such as Fireball critting on 90%+ health targets, 10% procs, and "each consecutive crit increases your crit damage". Also adding +100% Ice Barrier to Arcane while it still has GI locked behind the spec.

Again, if you're planning on only playing Arcane, things are looking amazing, but sadly, I prefer both Frost and Fire over it, but the way things are going, I'll probably main Arcane at this rate.

There is no way any game developer can make everyone happy.

Yet the absolutely monkey-brained, retarded, design of the current state of talents (and a few other things) almost proves that they're intentionally trying to reduce Mage QoL even further. Sure every expansion they throw us a small bone (PC removed and RoP is now a cooldown [that's even more mandatory for burst fights, but that's for another time]), but then drop the axe on us with massive QoL nerfs. Talents right now are beyond dreadful, Fire a bit moreso than the others.

[Kapadons]

Bring back fire from ToT and late SoO. Loved this shit out of the spec once I had the gear.

[Sarm]

That Mark of Aluneth talent doesn't sound like it'll be much fun to try to use if you don't have someone tanking for you. :/

[Deleted]

Is frost mage ready for testing yet? is so what's it like couldnt find any vids

[Polarthief]

Is frost mage ready for testing yet?

No. Arcane just became playable yesterday and Frost is still locked.

[GwiGwi]

Is the arcane artifact quest bugged for anyone else? I'm stuck at 2/3 Clues Found for A New Threat

[Adeivus]

That Mark of Aluneth talent doesn't sound like it'll be much fun to try to use if you don't have someone tanking for you. :/

Been futzing about with it a bit in alpha.

Its really underwhelming. The mob will clear the mark in about a second unless you cast it while they're up in your face.

It needs work. Badly. Its probably better in group settings where someone's keeping the mob off you but still, I am very meh about it.

GwiGwi, abandon the quest, go back to Dalaran and get it again. When you return to the Dragonshrine, go to the void siphon (the big one) first, let Kalec talk and vanish. Do NOT move away or go to another. It should work then.

[GwiGwi]

Thanks the the help, got to the last part where I am suppose to get the weapon but it was un-clickable. GG.

[Nobloodz]

Same. I can't click the staff.

[AngelovV]

Managed to get to 100 quickening stacks:

[Ryken]

Been futzing about with it a bit in alpha.

Its really underwhelming. The mob will clear the mark in about a second unless you cast it while they're up in your face.

It needs work. Badly. Its probably better in group settings where someone's keeping the mob off you but still, I am very meh about it.

Yeah, its gonna be a spell designed around someone keeping things off you, or slowing a group in PvP. It does great damage though, but I doubt the intention was for solo play. Every ranged targetted AoE has this drawback though, so I'm not sure what work you can reasonable expect from it. I like the idea of placing it on a mob and having it follow it, but that has a drawback too, if the mob dies before others, it'd go away and you'd miss out on some nice damage. Out of solo play, it's gonna work just fine imo.

[Zingera]

Is the arcane artifact quest bugged for anyone else? I'm stuck at 2/3 Clues Found for A New Threat

You have to go back to dalaran and retake the quest, you can only take all 3 clues if you take the staff first... if not.. then you have to abandon and retake the quest.

[Ryken]

Also something odd about Mark of Aluneth, it seems to be creating a stacking buff on mobs caught in the field, increasing Arcane damage done to them for 8 seconds (2% increase per second, up to 16% increased damage taken for 8 seconds). Doesn't mention it in the spell description, so not sure if intended/left over from another design.

[Naedrim]

Also something odd about Mark of Aluneth, it seems to be creating a stacking buff on mobs caught in the field, increasing Arcane damage done to them for 8 seconds (2% increase per second, up to 16% increased damage taken for 8 seconds). Doesn't mention it in the spell description, so not sure if intended/left over from another design.

Are you specced for Erosion? Maybe that's interacting with it. Numbers don't entirely add up but eh.

[Ryken]

Are you specced for Erosion? Maybe that's interacting with it. Numbers don't entirely add up but eh.

No, its not erosion, not using that for questing. What do you mean the numbers don't add up? Mark of Aluneth creates an area on the ground, that does damage every second for 8 seconds. Each time it deals damage, it gives anyone caught in it a stack, adding 2% extra damage taken for 8 seconds. The effect lasts for 8 seconds from the last stack addition. So it builds up over 8 seconds, then lasts 8 seconds beyond that.