At last - Dungeons CAN replace the need for raiding! =D

[mvaliz]

I'm VERY happy to see this development!

Dungeon pannel has a new system where you use a keystone to "up" the difficulty of the dungeon, and apparently you can keep increasing that level of the stone for increased rewards in the dungeon. Gone is the rush challenge mode, but there IS a basic timer to meet - but the key is to just beat the dungeon, not rush through - so CCs and what-not are very important.

Also there's a new variable system that adds variations to the dungeons. Things like Every player takes slow Damage over time, all NPCs enrage below 30%, ect that can be applied to your dungeon to make it more difficult (and greater rewards).

They definetly say they get hard later on. even using the words to something of the effect of "You will find your own personal breakpoint in these that will break you".

Big news from Blizzard's own mouth is...

DUNGEONS CAN COMPLEMENT OR EVEN REPLACE THE NEED FOR RAIDING!!!

EDIT: In other dungeon news - there's 10 dungeons in Legion. 5 of which are leveling dungeons, but - like the overworld - can be done/scailed in ANY ORDER/ANY LEVEL and you will still get the right level scale/xp for your particular level!

[PuppetShowJustice]

I feel like this far into the game it will be difficult to get players to really accept this as a form of endgame. BUT it is a really cool idea and I can't wait to see what the reward structure looks like for doing it. Hardcore 5-man material sounds awesome.

[Deleted]

The way i understand it, this probably won't work with the LFG tool.
Which means you have to pre-made your group.
A group of players evenly equipped as you, or better.
Assembling such a group will bring about similar issues there are today with the raiding - kicking of players out which doesn't meet leader's criteria, whatever they might be. So you either have friends to lend help, or you are handed to the mercy of the group leader.

Which leads to the conclusion that, as a good improvement as it might be, this won't fix the main problem casuals has with raiding - guild participation and dedication.

[Fawkess]

Will they be queuable or not? If not then it's basically just a new version of Mythic Dungeons for the 10%. If queuable then I'm interested because no matter how good/bad a person is the progressive nature of difficulty means you will rise (or fall) to your own level of competence, which makes random matchmaking acceptable for this IMO.

IT wont be queable because it relies on the group leaders keystone

[Deleted]

Before raiding became "the thing", I carried the flag of the 5man player back in vanilla. If they finally switch from catering to the raiders to at least balancing stuff between solo/5man and raiding, I'll subscribe for the rest of my life.

[Sumaku13]

The way i understand it, this probably won't work with the LFG tool.
Which means you have to pre-made your group.
A group of players evenly equipped as you, or better.
Assembling such a group will bring about similar issues there are today with the raiding - kicking of players out which doesn't meet leader's criteria, whatever they might be. So you either have friends to lend help, or you are handed to the mercy of the group leader.

Which leads to the conclusion that, as a good improvement as it might be, this won't fix the main problem casuals has with raiding - guild participation and dedication.

But "casuals" don't really need to be in a guild to do these? Me and my friend who are over raiding and can't commit to the specific day/hour requirements anymore, would easily be able to form a group with either /trade chat people, or even bring back old friends to play in a smaller more intense environment with no actual "commitment." That sounds perfect to players like me, who can play in small bursts/bursts of play that don't coincide with a strict time schedule of guilds.

Either way, I'm excited because this is more accessible for me. I find it a huge improvement of shifting emphasis away from Raiding being the only end tier PvE content that's worthwhile; now I can leave that to the "hardcore" players and find my own sense of fulfilment and enjoyment elsewhere.

[Dystemper]

It will be scrapped at he last minute because they just could not get it to function right and they felt it did not mesh with the goal of the expansion ( i.e The raiding community had a fit and it was removed ).

[mvaliz]

IT wont be queable because it relies on the group leaders keystone

They haven't said yet if it's queueable or not. Don't read anything into it just yet.

It could also work like Diablo 3's keystone, where everybody has to have that level keystone to get in.

[PrairieChicken]

Only for hardcore players. I am fine with it but I think it will just turn out to be Cata 2.0

[Akta]

The new dungeon system seems amazing

[mvaliz]

It will be scrapped at he last minute because they just could not get it to function right and they felt it did not mesh with the goal of the expansion ( i.e The raiding community had a fit and it was removed ).

Given them not deleting the WoD Valor decision yet - I don't think Blizz is going to currently listen to the Raiders anymore.

Maybe they learned the hardcore raiders aren't worth focusing the majority of the game on! ^_^ (but, of course, I said that durring Cata as well...)

[Teriz]

This is good news. I actually prefer dungeons to raiding. The problem is that dungeons become face rolls after a certain point. This makes me very interested.

[Wingspan]

I feel like this far into the game it will be difficult to get players to really accept this as a form of endgame. BUT it is a really cool idea and I can't wait to see what the reward structure looks like for doing it. Hardcore 5-man material sounds awesome.

If it offers the same rewards as Rading, it could possibly even kill Raiding.


By the same token, if the Rewards are even close to Raiding, then it will be viewed as mandatory by raiders.


It is an interesting development though.

[arel00]

It's Diablo 3 Greater Rifts, pure and simple, just like the endgame open world objectives are Diablo's Adventure Mode. Which isn't a bad idea either, the D3 team is clearly light-years ahead at the present time.

[Wondercrab]

I'm super hyped for this. Taking various elements of Diablo's excellent recent design and applying it to WoW seems like a recipe for success. I'll be thrilled to finally be able to focus on dungeons and progress my character in a similar way to raiding.

[mvaliz]

Only for hardcore players. I am fine with it but I think it will just turn out to be Cata 2.0

Actually it's not! They actually said "If you run just heroic level dungeons - this system is also for you too!"

Apparently it's all about finding your own personal comfort level.

[Ursiel]

Something I can do with only friends? Sounds good. We'll see if they keep it or scrap it (I'm thinking the latter since the raiders will get pissy as usual).

[TheWindWalker]

Ah, bummer then. Not really sure who this is aimed at then other than the people already listing Normal raids with ilevel 999 in Group Finder I guess for the other 90% of the population LFR remains the endgame.

I'd imagine groups that can't stand the noise-cloud that is mythic raiding might at least have something else to do that justifies organizing in the first place. You'd still need to split into 5s but it could be really enjoyable. Beats "Okay we beat heroic, uninstall I guess."

[PrairieChicken]

Given them not deleting the WoD Valor decision yet - I don't think Blizz is going to currently listen to the Raiders anymore.

Maybe they learned the hardcore raiders aren't worth focusing the majority of the game on! ^_^ (but, of course, I said that durring Cata as well...)

The dungeons will be tuned around hardcore people judging from what is presented, there is no LFD for the CMs and all the mechanics will be un-doable for 90% of the players. How is it not hardcore focus (well not raiders but)?

[hollafame]

It's Diablo 3 Greater Rifts, pure and simple, just like the endgame open world objectives are Diablo's Adventure Mode. Which isn't a bad idea either, the D3 team is clearly light-years ahead at the present time.

It's almost like they used Diablo 3 as the foundation to see what works and doesn't work -- then tries to implement into WoW in some form. Eh, whatever works I guess.