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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    On a lot of fights people have to be seperated and can't be stacked. You are going to need an addon to play your spec optimally in that situation and even then most of our kit is made of casted spells (this will of course depend on how strong certain abilities will be.) Get ready to healing via GPS arrows boys.
    what... As pacer said if you don't know who is in melee and who is in range, you have bigger problems. You don't even know the range of our mastery yet. lmfao. Its stupid to complain when there is such little information out.
    I love holy paladin and holy paladin culture.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Virsta1 View Post
    LoD is not hard to manage. You must have not played during Cata.
    I was playing during Cata, but thanks for your baseless assumption.

    Besides... wasn't LoD a smart heal back then? Smart heals are easier to manage. It's a different world when most of your 12-second AoE healing cooldown may go to waste because your positioning is just a bit off in relation to that clump of players you're trying to keep alive.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by MCC View Post
    Do you consider it a good situation where you do OK healing to one half of the raid and subpar healing to the other half? I don't.
    My opinion is based on the talent that allows both us and our beacon to increase the healing and in this case I really find it a non issue. I expect our mastery to be 100% effective at 0-10 yards and then drop to 0 between 30-40 yards so the melee will probably get 90% effectiveness from the tank beacon and the ranged 100% effectiveness from us.

    Granted this is during ideal situations but these kinds of splits happen all the time on live.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by MCC View Post
    I was playing during Cata, but thanks for your baseless assumption.

    Besides... wasn't LoD a smart heal back then? Smart heals are easier to manage. It's a different world when most of your 12-second AoE healing cooldown may go to waste because your positioning is just a bit off in relation to that clump of players you're trying to keep alive.
    Then it just comes down to player skill and not positioning poorly which is nothing new in this game.
    I love holy paladin and holy paladin culture.

  5. #45
    Well Holy just went from a pansy in plate to the most Manly and baller Healer. Great idea, love the design. #

    Should hopefully increase the skill cap on it too, as great Holy Paladins should be doing a significant amount more.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Virsta1 View Post
    what... As pacer said if you don't know who is in melee and who is in range, you have bigger problems. You don't even know the range of our mastery yet. lmfao. Its stupid to complain when there is such little information out.
    All ranged aren't on the same spot at all times. The concept looks pretty simple to understand, what more information do you require about such a simple mastery?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by MCC View Post
    Do you consider it a good situation where you do OK healing to one half of the raid and subpar healing to the other half? I don't.


    It's definitely possible that the previews are incomplete, but do you think they would actually leave out a key tool in our toolbox?

    I did miss the part about major glyphs. This will make things... interesting.
    That's the part of the range-based mastery that bugs me (aside from the just plain-old clunkiness of it). Standing on ranged, great, my healing on ranged gets great mastery bonus - my healing on the melee camp, none or very little. Stand in melee, full mastery bonus on melee camp - little or none on ranged. That's just an odd design.

    Maybe it'll turn out OK, though, in practice. My gut says the key is going to be in the talents.

    Edit: As Pacer mentioned, the talent that lets mastery measure from you or the beacon makes this a non-issue. Does that make that talent mandatory then? Just thinking out loud.
    Last edited by Unir; 2015-11-10 at 02:28 AM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    All ranged aren't on the same spot at all times. The concept looks pretty simple to understand, what more information do you require about such a simple mastery?
    That concept is easy to understand for you ??? But you need an arrow to show you where people are in your raid?? makes sense.
    I love holy paladin and holy paladin culture.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    All ranged aren't on the same spot at all times. The concept looks pretty simple to understand, what more information do you require about such a simple mastery?
    Having up sides and down sides is what I call good design. Even if it sucks on some fights how many fights are we really talking about? In Hellfire Citadel I count 5 fights where it potentially will suck but 3 out of those fights are the first 3 bosses in the instance so no big loss on those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unir View Post
    As Pacer mentioned, the talent that lets mastery measure from you or the beacon makes this a non-issue. Does that make that talent mandatory then? Just thinking out loud.
    I dont know who pointed it out and frankly im too lazy to go back and look but Beacon of the Lightbringer which it is called could be on the same tier as Beacon of Faith, in which case it will be competetive but it wont be auto pick.
    Last edited by Pickledmilk; 2015-11-10 at 02:37 AM.

  10. #50
    The mastery is pretty OP imo

    If we consider that paladins will do the same #s as other healers without mastery, then healing for 40% more (or up to 60%) makes holy paladins basically have their class trinket passively, effecting all spells. Not to mention you can kinda guarantee you'll get 100% effectiveness from the mastery. unlike the shaman mastery where it's completely useless on farm, or the MW mastery which is just bad.

    It seems like a better version of harmony really, but virsta is being legit- why are people complaining when there is literally zero info

  11. #51
    This is still percolating for me. I can't help but wonder what their design idea is behind that mastery. They know full well how we typically position in raids, so is their idea that you pick one of the two camps (assuming not a full spread or full stack fight), with your healing being more effective on that camp and weaker on the other one?

    That's a really odd design, considering we are most effective as spot healers across the entire raid.

    Take Oregorger for example. In most strats the ranged are in 1-2 groups moving up the corridor, while melee are on the boss. Assume you don't take the talent that makes mastery measure from either you or the beacon, because, hey it's not supposed to be mandatory right?

    If a barrage interrupt is missed, raid damage goes out. Do I prioritize the ranged targets first now? It seems like I would have to - because if not, here's what happens. I HL rogue for 20,000. I HL mage for 30,000, same spell. I HL death knight for 20,000. I HL druid for 30,000.

    That seems really odd to me. My mastery effectiveness is going to be strongly influenced by who in particular takes the damage, which is something I cannot have much (or any) control over.

    Edit: I recognize we have little information, just thinking through it. This may work out just fine, but I do wonder what their intent for optimal game play is with this.
    Last edited by Unir; 2015-11-10 at 02:52 AM.

  12. #52
    Excluding HFA, iron reaver and kilrogg you spend the majority of every fight stacked as 1 group in melee of the boss

    So yeah. The mastery's insane imo

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Virsta1 View Post
    That concept is easy to understand for you ??? But you need an arrow to show you where people are in your raid?? makes sense.
    Do you know where every single person on your raid stands at all times on an encounter where people are spread out? The answer to this question is by the way either : Im lying or No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unir View Post
    Edit: As Pacer mentioned, the talent that lets mastery measure from you or the beacon makes this a non-issue. Does that make that talent mandatory then? Just thinking out loud.
    Exactly my thoughts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    Excluding HFA, iron reaver and kilrogg you spend the majority of every fight stacked as 1 group in melee of the boss

    So yeah. The mastery's insane imo
    This mastery would be a nightmare in BRF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Having up sides and down sides is what I call good design. Even if it sucks on some fights how many fights are we really talking about? In Hellfire Citadel I count 5 fights where it potentially will suck but 3 out of those fights are the first 3 bosses in the instance so no big loss on those.
    I like that as well, some specs should be better in certain fights/tiers. The new Disc would be a good example to this as I think they intent the new Disc to be useful on certain encounters and have one Priest healer per raidcomp that switches between Holy/Disc.

    For Paladin let's hope they get the scaling on the mastery just fine, or make the talent they showcased baseline? We will see.
    Last edited by Rorschachs; 2015-11-10 at 03:01 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    Do you know where every single person on your raid stands at all times in a seperated encounter? The answer to this question is by the way either : Im lying or No.
    uhhh. yes. I definitely have an idea where each player is going to be standing during an encounter. That isn't a serious question is. You should always know where people are standing.
    I love holy paladin and holy paladin culture.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Virsta1 View Post
    uhhh. yes. I definitely have an idea where each player is going to be standing during an encounter. That isn't a serious question is. You should always know where people are standing.
    I would like to watch you make the perfect use of a mastery like this on Blast Furnace phase 2. Even if you are a god that you claim to be and you know where everyone is standing at all times, there are things that prevent movement and on top of that Holy Paladins have low mobility. This mastery has a risk of being really frustrating.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    Do you know where every single person on your raid stands at all times on an encounter where people are spread out? The answer to this question is by the way either : Im lying or No.
    In a PuG? No. In a somewhat organized guild group? Kind of. People usually only spread out the minimum distance required and have addons that give them visual indicators of that distance. You obviously can't know exactly where everyone will stand but it's very easy to get a general area where everyone will loosely stack. If the raid leader puts down a marker and says "Ranged on red, spread out 5 yards", you usually don't end up with people all over the map.

  17. #57
    Why would you use Blast furnace p2 as your example. You are stacked until debuffs go out then you restack again?? Then p3 comes where everyone is stacked sounds like our mastery excels in that situation. I don't think knowing where players are in your raid is being a god. its just having some awareness and not tunneling raid frames. It could be frustrated at times, but i think the pros out weight the cons by miles.
    I love holy paladin and holy paladin culture.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Virsta1 View Post
    Why would you use Blast furnace p2 as your example. You are stacked until debuffs go out then you restack again?? Then p3 comes where everyone is stacked sounds like our mastery excels in that situation. I don't think knowing where players are in your raid is being a god. its just having some awareness and not tunneling raid frames. It could be frustrated at times, but i think the pros out weight the cons by miles.
    Im sorry, did you actually do Mythic Blast Furnace during progression? Also some awareness isn't going to be enough if you want to know where that %3 HP Mage has blinked to 3 seconds ago that you need to cast a big heal on before the next AOE. Things like this constantly happen during progression.


    Quote Originally Posted by Archibalde View Post
    In a PuG? No. In a somewhat organized guild group? Kind of. People usually only spread out the minimum distance required and have addons that give them visual indicators of that distance. You obviously can't know exactly where everyone will stand but it's very easy to get a general area where everyone will loosely stack. If the raid leader puts down a marker and says "Ranged on red, spread out 5 yards", you usually don't end up with people all over the map.
    Yes. The mastery won't be a big deal if you don't care about maximizing.
    Last edited by Rorschachs; 2015-11-10 at 03:16 AM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    I would like to watch you make the perfect use of a mastery like this on Blast Furnace phase 2. Even if you are a god that you claim to be and you know where everyone is standing at all times, there are things that prevent movement and on top of that Holy Paladins have low mobility. This mastery has a risk of being really frustrating.
    Then don't stack mastery. Easy as that.

    Personally I would wait for more info to be posted before making judgements/complaints.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    Im sorry, did you actually do Mythic Blast Furnace during progression? Also some awareness isn't going to be enough if you want to know where that %3 HP Mage has blinked to 3 seconds ago that you need to cast a big heal on before the next AOE. Things like this constantly happen during progression.

    I mean if you really wanna bring achievements into this we can. I guess having a little awareness makes you a god though. So because of our mastery you can't heal the mage at 3% health?
    I love holy paladin and holy paladin culture.

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