[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[Dreamguard]

Honestly having it use health is kinda dumb. Unless the effeciency is way over board like you lose 10 hp and your target is healed for 100 or some ridiculous percentage. All it means is that you'll end up having to heal.yourself next or one of your other healers will. It's good they want to give us a mobile but they've already got one. Word of glory. Just remove the holy power cost.

Yeah, I'm a little worried about Light of the Martyr as well. The ambiguous phrasing is "Sacrifices a moderate amount of your own health to instantly heal an ally for a moderate amount", implying closer to one-to-one. My guess is that the health lost will be based on percent Spell power but will be static, and the healing portion will be based on the same percent Spell power but will be modified by other healing multipliers like mastery, crit, and versatility.

Without any healing multipliers the heal would be zero sum and a net loss of mana, making it almost completely worthless in most situations. Even with multipliers, you would still need roughly 80% combined on crit and mastery (i.e. 40% mastery and 40% crit) to even be worth as much as a single Flash of Light or Holy Light.

[Floopa]

they said that light of the martyr's self damage would be more than the heal via beacon so you can expect it to be greater than 50% of the healing it deals, i think it's fine to assume 75% of the healing is self dmg

[CloudedInSanity]

It's really interesting to see how things will work out in the end, but I don't think we should jump to conclussions just yet. Of all the spells we've seen so far Light of Dawn and Light of the Martyr bother me the most and need to be tweaked or reworked.

Light of Dawn has way too many requirements. It has a 1.5 seconds cast time. It has 12 seconds cooldown. Being a frontal cone it has a positioning requirement. It heals a limited number of people - 5. And on top of that it has limited range of 15 yards from the caster. I'm guessing by this spell alone that 15 yards will be the "maximum mastery benefit" range. If that is the case, our mastery doesn't seem that bad. But Light of Dawn as it is right now it just has way too many conditions to meet in order to be used effectively.

Many people have said this before, but one of the limitations has to go. It should imo at least be instant. I think that positioning ourselves correctly while running towards an injured group of people to heal them all with an "aimed" spell should be considered skilled enough, even by the Blizzard's Class Designers standards. I highly doubt they'll change it, so we'll have to live with it. (Or maybe the artifact will actually have a couple of slots dedicated to making it instant/heal more people/increase the range, who knows at the moment)

The second spell that really, really annoys me is Light of the Martyr. It uses both Health AND Mana as a resource. Why? The mana cost should just be removed. It would already be punishing enough if we have to sacrifice 10 to 20% of our HP and on top of that even pay mana for that. Really?! This might be just a speculation but it is a valid concern. I guess we'll have to wait for the Beta in order to get our questions answered.

I'll forever be confused why people try to say things are underpowered/overpowered/clunky/bad/good before testing has even began. We have no idea what raids are going to be like or tuning. The positional requirement of Light of Dawn is no different then Mushroom or Healing Rain...

If Light of the Martyr didn't cost mana it would get abused.

[Deleted]

The validity of this martyr spell stands and falls by its purpose in the toolkit rather than whatever tuning they decide to slap on it. If it's meant to be a regularly used spell that replaces, say, EF in our current game, it's doomed to fail. Either it will heal for a significant amount and the self-harm would be too dangerous, or it will heal for too little and just be a weak button to press - with how our health pool relates to other people (specifically tanks), there simply is no happy middle ground. On the other hand it's not hard to imagine a niche role to be the intention of this spell. While the "moderate" healing denotation suggest otherwise, this may be a reinvention of LoH that replaces its long cooldown as a resources with our HP pool. Its lack of a cast time, together with how we're apparently moving away from our historical position of the immobile healer in reference to our new mastery, may also indicate it's simply what we pay for having a significant heal on the move.

[Deleted]

Light of Dawn has way too many requirements. It has a 1.5 seconds cast time. It has 12 seconds cooldown. Being a frontal cone it has a positioning requirement. It heals a limited number of people - 5. And on top of that it has limited range of 15 yards from the caster. I'm guessing by this spell alone that 15 yards will be the "maximum mastery benefit" range. If that is the case, our mastery doesn't seem that bad. But Light of Dawn as it is right now it just has way too many conditions to meet in order to be used effectively.

The mechanics behind LoD are pretty terrible, I feel like they should make it atleast 30 yards in a cone rather than the 15 yards. Compare this to say a holy priest (which was given an improved version of our current HR because fuck holy paladins) they can target someone and it will heal people within 15 yards of that target. If we asume everyone is equally spread and LoD is a 120 degree cone, holy priests will be able to cover 3 times as many people with their 1 cast.

I think a cast time on LoD is something it absolutely needs as long as it is a cone, it also needs some indicator of where the cone actually will heal people, just like halo.

[Floopa]

The mechanics behind LoD are pretty terrible, I feel like they should make it atleast 30 yards in a cone rather than the 15 yards. Compare this to say a holy priest (which was given an improved version of our current HR because fuck holy paladins) they can target someone and it will heal people within 15 yards of that target. If we asume everyone is equally spread and LoD is a 120 degree cone, holy priests will be able to cover 3 times as many people with their 1 cast.

I think a cast time on LoD is something it absolutely needs as long as it is a cone, it also needs some indicator of where the cone actually will heal people, just like halo.

yeah those damn holy priests

forever stealing raiding spots from holy paladins and outshining every other spec on progress

have y'all considered the following:

> currently paladins are OP
> blizzard buffs every other healer to paladin level
> paladins are balanced, as is every other healer
> paladins are angry because being balanced isn't being op

im properly being serious- what seems to be the issue here?

are you upset that paladins aren't getting LoD healing up to 40 people in a 100 yard range (revival pre-nerf)?
are you upset that paladins may not be mandatory? (paladins currently)
are you upset your mastery is no longer 100% effective and has an element of skill attached? (paladins, disc priests currently)

we know nothing about tuning, just how it looks and how it "may feel" to play. hell the large majority of holy paladins haven't even seen the entire talents available to them.

[Deleted]

yeah those damn holy priests

Yes I am salty as fuck that they got what paladins have been asking for, for the last 3 years. Its cool that they give us other new things to play with instead but that does not make it less stupid.

Seriously what would you say if Divine Hymn suddenly had this tooltip:

Divine Hymn
4.374% of base mana
Instant 3 min cooldown
Requires level 78
Heals all party and raid members within 40 yards for (1342% of Spell power) and clears them of all harmful Magical, Poison, and Disease effects.

In case you are too stupid to understand the tooltip, I took revival and increased the spellpower by 50% like was done with the range of HR. HR healing has always suffered immensely because 10 yards is not enough to even heal all the melee if you happen to target the wrong player.

[Floopa]

Yes I am salty as fuck that they got what paladins have been asking for, for the last 3 years. Its cool that they give us other new things to play with instead but that does not make it less stupid.

Seriously what would you say if Divine Hymn suddenly had this tooltip:

In case you are too stupid to understand the tooltip, I took revival and increased the spellpower by 50% like was done with the range of HR. HR healing has always suffered immensely because 10 yards is not enough to even heal all the melee if you happen to target the wrong player.

tbh if it did 50% more healing it would just do overhealing cus revival already does 5-10% overhealing even if everyone is sitting around 1-10% life. also monks have been asking for a new mastery for 4 years and our new mastery doesn't seem spectacular, it's like being saying "yeah i don't have my p.e kit so i can't play football" and then the coach throws you boots and tells you to play in your underwear + vest.

so yea i'm cool with whatever tbh lmao

[TeeZed]

I already feel like a fat kid running around whenever I have to move and now I'm going to be a fat kid chasing a box of smarties.

Majestic analogy

[Dreamguard]

they said that light of the martyr's self damage would be more than the heal via beacon so you can expect it to be greater than 50% of the healing it deals, i think it's fine to assume 75% of the healing is self dmg

I just got confirmation that Light of the Martyr is one-to-one, based on SP, and only the heal is modified by crit/mast -- tweet

[Luqt]

Yes I am salty as fuck that they got what paladins have been asking for, for the last 3 years. Its cool that they give us other new things to play with instead but that does not make it less stupid.

Seriously what would you say if Divine Hymn suddenly had this tooltip:

In case you are too stupid to understand the tooltip, I took revival and increased the spellpower by 50% like was done with the range of HR. HR healing has always suffered immensely because 10 yards is not enough to even heal all the melee if you happen to target the wrong player.

Pacer, don't feed that person. Slowly, he/she will grow tired of being ignored. Between an instant cast and a 30 yd range LoD I think the instant on-demand cast sounds more appealing for a class that's already spending a lot of time casting. Knowing that martyr is gonna be 1:1 I personally think it might be a poor pve spell, unless there are some interesting talents that interact with/ buff it in some way.

[Glorious Leader]

Pacer, don't feed that person. Slowly, he/she will grow tired of being ignored. Between an instant cast and a 30 yd range LoD I think the instant on-demand cast sounds more appealing for a class that's already spending a lot of time casting. Knowing that martyr is gonna be 1:1 I personally think it might be a poor pve spell, unless there are some interesting talents that interact with/ buff it in some way.

They seem to think that martyr will he a strong mobility heal. They called it powerful. Martyr doesn't strike me as a really good go to heal especially considering how much emphasis their is on movement these days. I don't really see how it's powerful,l compared to say spiritealkers grace.

[Glorious Leader]

The validity of this martyr spell stands and falls by its purpose in the toolkit rather than whatever tuning they decide to slap on it. If it's meant to be a regularly used spell that replaces, say, EF in our current game, it's doomed to fail. Either it will heal for a significant amount and the self-harm would be too dangerous, or it will heal for too little and just be a weak button to press - with how our health pool relates to other people (specifically tanks), there simply is no happy middle ground. On the other hand it's not hard to imagine a niche role to be the intention of this spell. While the "moderate" healing denotation suggest otherwise, this may be a reinvention of LoH that replaces its long cooldown as a resources with our HP pool. Its lack of a cast time, together with how we're apparently moving away from our historical position of the immobile healer in reference to our new mastery, may also indicate it's simply what we pay for having a significant heal on the move.

Their blue posts suggests that it will be an incredible useful tool for when we have to move. Moving happens alot in the current raid paradigm. Take from that what you will.

[Clarius]

I hope the Glyph of Beacon of Light is being made baseline now that they are removing the it.

Edit: Same goes for Glyph of Hand of Sacrifice

[Lucyrotten]

I hope the Glyph of Beacon of Light is being made baseline now that they are removing the it.

Edit: Same goes for Glyph of Hand of Sacrifice

I agree about having beacon off the gcd baseline but Hand of Sac doing damage has pvp ramifications. The datamining suggests it will still do damage but cancel at 20% of the pally's health which seems a reasonable compromise.

[Deleted]

Beacon of Hope: Place a Beacon of Hope at the target location. After 3 sec, or when you take damage, you will be sent to the Beacon. (45 sec CD)
Crusader's Might: Your successful Crusader Strikes grant you Crusader's Might, increasing the effect of Lightbringer by 12%.
Divine Intervention: Any attack which would kill you instead reduces you to 20% of your maximum health and triggers Divine Shield. Cannot occur while Divine Shield is on cooldown or Forbearance is active.
Beacon of the Savior: Dealing damage with Crusader Strike, Judgment, Holy Shock, Denounce, or autoattacks also heals your Beacon of Light for 0.

Looks like Blizz goes serious with the idea of us being the melee healer.

[Floopa]

Beacon of Hope: Place a Beacon of Hope at the target location. After 3 sec, or when you take damage, you will be sent to the Beacon. (45 sec CD)
Crusader's Might: Your successful Crusader Strikes grant you Crusader's Might, increasing the effect of Lightbringer by 12%.
Divine Intervention: Any attack which would kill you instead reduces you to 20% of your maximum health and triggers Divine Shield. Cannot occur while Divine Shield is on cooldown or Forbearance is active.
Beacon of the Savior: Dealing damage with Crusader Strike, Judgment, Holy Shock, Denounce, or autoattacks also heals your Beacon of Light for 0.

Looks like Blizz goes serious with the idea of us being the melee healer.

without melee immunity that's a high risk high reward style of play, which i'm in favour of tbh

at least paladins can quit whining now that LoD is instant

[Unir]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=250045/l...hanges#paladin

They have the abilities, but it's quite a blob of text.

Thanks - I deleted the question as soon as the light bulb came on and I went to Wowhead.

More coffee plz.

The question to me is how they are going to handle the melee immunity issue. That will make a big difference on using some of those.

Hopefully once this is tuned it will sim out to be roughly equal among the two playstyles. I'm not particularly a big fan of being in melee auto-attacking my way to glory, but we'll see.

Edit: I do like that they added Denounce to that list that does healing, which makes it something like a Dream of Cenarius type talent if you're standing in the ranged camp.

[Deleted]

I agree about having beacon off the gcd baseline but Hand of Sac doing damage has pvp ramifications. The datamining suggests it will still do damage but cancel at 20% of the pally's health which seems a reasonable compromise.

That is a fucking terrible compromise. Sac is now useless on half the bosses when you dont have divine intervention ready.

[Deleted]

Beacon of Hope: Place a Beacon of Hope at the target location. After 3 sec, or when you take damage, you will be sent to the Beacon. (45 sec CD)
Crusader's Might: Your successful Crusader Strikes grant you Crusader's Might, increasing the effect of Lightbringer by 12%.
Divine Intervention: Any attack which would kill you instead reduces you to 20% of your maximum health and triggers Divine Shield. Cannot occur while Divine Shield is on cooldown or Forbearance is active.
Beacon of the Savior: Dealing damage with Crusader Strike, Judgment, Holy Shock, Denounce, or autoattacks also heals your Beacon of Light for 0.

Looks like Blizz goes serious with the idea of us being the melee healer.

You forgot Light of Dawn and the Auras and their extremely short range. Yes, in the current preview we would be forced into melee.

without melee immunity that's a high risk high reward style of play, which i'm in favour of tbh

at least paladins can quit whining now that LoD is instant

That's not a high risk high reward playstyle unless if by doing it you outheal everyone else. If by adding the extra layer of constantly watching the timer and jumping in/out of melee you are on the same level, that's just high risk.