[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Baconeggcheese]

quick question, if you take shadow burn are you shoehorned into mana tap? and if you take shadow burn does it replace chaos bolt in your rotation or should it be used to snipe like it is now for the free shards?

I've just continued using it as we currently do as I assume that's the intention. Tuning will determine that and current tuning doesn't matter.

[Lucrece]

legion has ruined this game, activision is basically making this game either console ready
or catering to mentally handicapped people

destro (among most other classes/specs i try) is beyond lame
theres like four spells, barely any customization, a bad player looks the same as someone who knows what they are doing
talents are boring
and pvp is a complete joke

just unsubbed. i was really looking forward to this game
i have several classes at max level on live
and every single class ive tried on beta has been terrible
but worst above all is destro

also the fact that not a single blue has responded to anything in the destro lock thread in months

i feel the development team (and activision as a whole) are money grubbing asshats with no idea what they are doing

To think these are the people who gain beta/alpha access and get to post in those forums as a person who has yet to get in, makes me very bitter ;p.

I mean, warlocks have been overpruned as many classes have, but this guy is virtually useless to a beta/alpha environment.

[bio347]

I've just continued using it as we currently do as I assume that's the intention. Tuning will determine that and current tuning doesn't matter.

For however much it might not matter, under current tuning CB > SB. SB retains its niche as an execute shard generator and also allows you to dump shards while moving if you're capped and absolutely cannot stop to CB. I don't think there's any real reason to believe this will change, but I suppose precisely how much better CB is could bounce around somewhat.

[Kirroth]

WoWhead has a new version of the Lord of Flames artifact trait that's significantly more impressive. Basic version is Summon Infernal gives you four infernals for the full 25s duration. With GrimSup, your infernal's Meteor Strike attack summons the 3 extra infernals for 25s on a 10m cooldown.

[Gaidax]

Happy to hear they heard the suggestion of tying Lord of Flames to Summon Infernal, that's a cool change.

[Lucrece]

Well, at least destro didn't get the affliction rough love treatment.

They still need to revert the change to dimensional rift so they can be cast on the move, and normalize their effectiveness.

And replace our mastery with something less awful.

[Grizelda]

Of all the things that could have been brought back into the talents I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen Fel Flame or Backlash.

I'd like to see Shadowburn baseline replaced with Fel flame in the talent tree, and Backdraft baseline replaced by Backlash.

Also I hope some of the more experienced locks will continue to post in beta forums. Those who are posting are a bit rabid.

[Baconeggcheese]

I've honestly stopped posting because it became apparent near the end of the alpha that they're done with any significant changes. What we'll likely see from here will mostly be minor mechanics tweaks with whatever tuning will happen. I wouldn't get my hopes up for much more than that. By the time beta comes around feedback tends to turn to shit since a lot more just totally random people have it and it becomes damn near impossible for blizzard to get any meaningful feedback through the walls of randoms posting. Basically the only way they bother with anything at this point is if there's an echo chamber.

I already said a few times before that the spec just feels wrong without shadowburn baseline and I frequently find myself looking for the button every time I don't have it talented. I'm not holding my breath on that seeing change though.

The rest is fairly meh, backlash is entirely unnecessary it was just nice to have for pvp. Backdraft really doesn't need to be baseline. They clearly want the spec to be the least mobile spec in the game so I'm not expecting fel flame to show up any time soon.

[Lucrece]

I've honestly stopped posting because it became apparent near the end of the alpha that they're done with any significant changes. What we'll likely see from here will mostly be minor mechanics tweaks with whatever tuning will happen. I wouldn't get my hopes up for much more than that. By the time beta comes around feedback tends to turn to shit since a lot more just totally random people have it and it becomes damn near impossible for blizzard to get any meaningful feedback through the walls of randoms posting. Basically the only way they bother with anything at this point is if there's an echo chamber.

I already said a few times before that the spec just feels wrong without shadowburn baseline and I frequently find myself looking for the button every time I don't have it talented. I'm not holding my breath on that seeing change though.

The rest is fairly meh, backlash is entirely unnecessary it was just nice to have for pvp. Backdraft really doesn't need to be baseline. They clearly want the spec to be the least mobile spec in the game so I'm not expecting fel flame to show up any time soon.

I don't think it's the randoms' fault. It's quite honestly the fault of developers who haven't made any meaningful changes even in the last 2 alpha builds before they shifted to beta.

They're 4 months away from release, you can bet your ass they've got a lockdown build somewhere around 2-3 months before release so they just want to spend what's left on mopping up the number tuning as best as possible until release.

It's sad, really. They should have engaged in testing much sooner to allow for better mechanical changes.

Instead, what we gain in this xpac with "class identity" is massively over-pruned classes for most of the classes that exist in WoW. I can think of very few classes that emerged with more instead of less. The whole point of an xpac is to whip out the new toys and see fleshed out concepts, and instead we just saw stripping of most things that made the warlock fun.

They're so bipolar as well. Wanted to make demons to be used as a choice, then turn around and make spec specific demons again. Wanted to differentiate warlock specs by resources (best update to warlocks, regardless of whatever crap they say about those spec revamps), then they revert them all back to RNG generated soul shards.

They gave affliction a dot amplifier to keep multidotting under control, then reverted that and we're back to the spec either being god in multi-target and single target or shit on both.

This whole flip flopping with the class has gone on long enough, they should go mess with rogues or warriors or mages for a change.

[Jessicka]

Bear in mind pre-patch is going to be a month before release, and a few weeks before that PTR. Beta has at most 6 weeks to run, so we're not going to see anything meaningful in that time, only stress testing and bug fixing.

[Baconeggcheese]

I don't think it's the randoms' fault. It's quite honestly the fault of developers who haven't made any meaningful changes even in the last 2 alpha builds before they shifted to beta.

You seem salty and misinformed.

Btw they made lots of mechanical changes, not to destro specifically because it really didn't need any.. but lots to aff and demo. They also tested much much earlier in the alpha than they normally do, I don't think they've ever tested as early as they did.

They only swapped to beta after they had already locked in and felt comfortable with the class design, I don't think that's by accident. Which is the point, once it rolls over to beta you start receiving a completely different type of feedback vs what they were getting in the alpha. It's not anyone's fault, it's just how it is.

[Soulzar]

Unless movement is absolutely critical, Sacrificial Pact is going to be far better in virtually all situations. Wherever it's possible to get by without Circle or Rush, even if it means having to slow-run to avoid incoming damage, people will take Sacrificial Pact, because it just offers too much to pass up on.

If mobility isn't critical, which in many cases it isn't.. then you'll have the additional mitigation to work with. TBH, the testing I've done since Demon Skin was introduced I've found less and less times where Sac pact was even needed as DS is like a permanent Sac shield in itself. Unless there is HUGE dmg incoming, it may be best for us to maximize dps uptime via more efficient movement than going overkill on dmg mitigation.

- - - Updated - - -

WoWhead has a new version of the Lord of Flames artifact trait that's significantly more impressive. Basic version is Summon Infernal gives you four infernals for the full 25s duration. With GrimSup, your infernal's Meteor Strike attack summons the 3 extra infernals for 25s on a 10m cooldown.

This looks like a solid change, wish they'd just decouple the shared CD with doomguard though. I would hope that ST 4 infernals would beat out Doomguard, so at least there is some flavour change for Destro on its DPS cooldown pet once a fight. Multi Target its going to be very good!

I like that they even took into consideration a way to control when it is cast when using Supremacy.. though it is still less than ideal that you'd have to sit on your pets 1min cd if you were not just using it on the pull and actually timing it for a specific time in the fight. Additionally, in cases where you're Sup and using Doomguard, you would need to spend 2 shards and a lot of cast time to be able to even use this talent... which is a shame as it would likely result in a wash. Hopefully GoServ or GoSac will remain the best ST options so that this becomes a non issue.

They still need to revert the change to dimensional rift so they can be cast on the move, and normalize their effectiveness.

As nice as it was, casting while moving on portals...its not coming back. They specifically stated we'll be tankier at the cost of mobility. There is no way they'd give us "icy flows" on top of that. Granted they nerfed the hell out of dimensional ripper so the charges were not always capped at 3, but it was still very powerful mobility for a class that's not supposed to have it.

[Grizelda]

TBH, the testing I've done since Demon Skin was introduced I've found less and less times where Sac pact was even needed as DS is like a permanent Sac shield in itself.

- - - Updated - - -

The eternal struggle artifact talent seems like op damage mitigation as well.

[Gaidax]

Don't know, I think Sac Pact is invaluable, the shielding it gives is phenomenal and on tiny CD really. May as well take your time moving with it on. Especially if you Sacrifice, then it's stupid huge shield.

[Halwyn]

WoWhead has a new version of the Lord of Flames artifact trait that's significantly more impressive. Basic version is Summon Infernal gives you four infernals for the full 25s duration. With GrimSup, your infernal's Meteor Strike attack summons the 3 extra infernals for 25s on a 10m cooldown.

Wow, they've finally started to read the goddamn feedback...

[Soulzar]

Wow, they've finally started to read the goddamn feedback...

There has been a TON of changes over the course of alpha based directly off feedback, people just choose to forget anything prior to one build ago.

[toolsv]

There's still the "mastery means your damage might not show up when you really need it" issue and the "no-one likes mana tap*" issue. And to a lesser extent a "my cooldowns are demons I summon but destruction's really more about doing it yourself" issue. And for me personally a "mastery is basically uninteractive" issue but I don't know if that bothers anyone else.

Here's my solution sort of unsolicited solution:
- Bring back Dark Soul in a different form in place of Mana Tap. Two charges, very recharge so you want to think about when you need it instead of just using it on cooldown.
- Instead of the crit bonus it has on live, make it roll mastery twice and choose the better roll.

As a raider/pvper this appeals to me because it gives me some control over my damage when I and my raid/team need it.
As someone who likes the warlock flavour this appeals because it preserves the chaotic nature of the destruction spec and hits the plotting and premeditating flavour of the class that I feel is lacking in the rest of the kit. If you give it a cost a-la Mana Tap you could even flavour it as making a deal with demonic powers, though the perfect name for that - Dark Pact - is already taken.

*This is asterisked just because I like the idea of having the option of a really technical maintenance buff that punishes you if you get it wrong even though I know not a lot of other people are into that.

[bio347]

The new Lord of Flames seems like a much better idea than putting it on RoF. Has anyone tested it to see if the extra infernals also deliver an Infernal Awakening, or is it just the one and four pop out?

[Avikur]

With the Artifact talent that increases the damage of the imp does that shoehorn us into GoServ? and the new lord of flames means we would use the infernal as a cooldown as opposed to doomguard? (or every other time anyway).

What talent setup have you guys found to be best so far on beta? (and I realise tuning has only just started but i'd still be interested to know what is looking strongest at the moment)

[Baconeggcheese]

Talents are situational in legion, so that question only works for specifics. You'll be changing talents all the time unless they make the inscription thing expensive.

Imp trait affects all 3 talents.

Lord of flames has a 10 minute cd so it'd be more like once per fight.