[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[wholol]

All the forums are whinging about something you cant please everyone, some people seem like they just need to take a nice long break from the game.

Well lucky for me I've been on said break for a few months now

[Baconeggcheese]

Destro was really well performing on

It wasn't a matter of performing well, it was a matter of performing better than... and it simply didn't during that tier.

In ToT you had to play destro for a bunch of fights

Had to is very strong, my guild is US top 10 and I saw hardly anyone using destro both in my own guild or from guilds above us. Durumu was the only fight I recall seeing other guilds commonly using destro and that was because people were abusing uvls bugging on the ice walls. I mean half the reason I was being given so much shit about using destro was specifically because pretty much no one else was doing it.

I don't really know where you got "had to".

SoO was the scaling fest, so it was just aff/2nd spec -mostly destro for obvious reasons on specific bosses-
Important to notice UVoLS didnt last more than 1 tier, and that was what propelled Demo above and beyond everything

They buffed the shit out of destro shortly after launching SoO. I remember reading the patch notes and laughing my ass off full well knowing how broken it was going to be. Destro actually scaled like shit, which is why it was weaker earlier on until it was over buffed.

They gutted the uvls proc rate, which is the ONLY reason why it only lasted 1 tier. We actually used it at the beginning of SoO until it was changed.

[Gaidax]

I don't get it, is the thread a discussion about MoP or Legion?

We have this MoP drivel going on for two pages soon, just let it rest already.

[wholol]

I don't get it, is the thread a discussion about MoP or Legion?

We have this MoP drivel going on for two pages soon, just let it rest already.

When there is nothing to talk about, nostalgia is the answer

[Lucrece]

I liked cataclysm demo, but that's just me. When specs felt like actual complete warlocks and not "this is the corrupted fire mage, the shadow priest remix, and the demon summoning spec". I don't like fragmented specs and unlike most people welcome the return of Soul Shards as the iconic warlock resource. I'm just not fond of the RNG involved, but whatever.

I feel like in Legion the only spec that doesn't feel like an overpruned snoozefest is Demonology. The other two just feel stripped down without gaining much in the way of new tools.

Maybe some people don't mind, but for me an xpac is a time of novelty to breathe some life back into a class and revert the burnout that has happened over an expansion.

[Slashkill]

There's plenty to talk about, but people keep talking about MoP

Am I the only one who doesn't get the point of cooldown on that artifact trait which transforms our Summon Infernal Dreadlord ult into Rain of Fire Archimonde/Balnazzar/other Burning Legion lieutenants spells? Is it supposed to act like Army of the Dead on live or something? I'd much rather just have it on regular CD, it's probably my favorite warlock-ish spell of all time.

Oh, and Finger of Death that is.

[Baconeggcheese]

I don't get it, is the thread a discussion about MoP or Legion?

We have this MoP drivel going on for two pages soon, just let it rest already.

They haven't made any significant changes in a number of builds now. Hell they haven't even done much if any tuning in so many builds. There's not a whole lot to talk about. We're already in the finishing touches phase, not much is likely to change from here.

[Gaidax]

There's plenty to talk about, but people keep talking about MoP

Am I the only one who doesn't get the point of cooldown on that artifact trait which transforms our Summon Infernal Dreadlord ult into Rain of Fire Archimonde/Balnazzar/other Burning Legion lieutenants spells? Is it supposed to act like Army of the Dead on live or something? I'd much rather just have it on regular CD, it's probably my favorite warlock-ish spell of all time.

Oh, and Finger of Death that is.

It's simply too powerful to be any less than 10 min CD. In my experience (I went and took Lord of Flames in beta) - a single cast of this is basically equal to ~3-4 Chaos Bolts worth of damage that is single target... half of that damage is AoE, so if it's more than single target there then it's pure trolling already.

I'm okay with that CD, rather big CD than nerf one way or another. It also resets CD on your death, because it's a debuff.

- - - Updated - - -

They haven't made any significant changes in a number of builds now. Hell they haven't even done much if any tuning in so many builds. There's not a whole lot to talk about. We're already in the finishing touches phase, not much is likely to change from here.

And? This is the reason to spam topic with unrelated stuff?

Feel free to discuss MoP/Cata warlocks in 13963 other threads open in this forum, don't see reason why not if lack of topic related news are the reason to deviate.

[Slashkill]

It's simply too powerful to be any less than 10 min CD. In my experience (I went and took Lord of Flames in beta) - a single cast of this is basically equal to ~3 Chaos Bolts worth of damage that is single target... half of that damage is AoE, so if it's more than single target there then it's pure trolling already.

I'm okay with that CD, rather big CD than nerf one way or another. It also resets CD on your death, because it's a debuff.

- - - Updated - - -



And? This is the reason to spam topic with unrelated crap?

Feel free to discuss MoP/Cata warlocks in 13963 other threads open in this forum, if so, don't see reason why not.

Well I support the idea of leaving the CD in the sake of not nerfing; I haven't tested it (rolled from lvl 13 demo artifact, so I can't even reach Dimensional Ripper yet) so I'm clueless about what damage it does. It's just so iconic and I was overhyped seeing this trait.

Have any of you guys been able to obtain that AP-boosting book from the archivist? I've gotten 2 of them and they just disappear when I pick them up. Some DH told me that it's bugged and sometimes it works sometimes not, but at least he can use it - I can't.

[Baconeggcheese]

And? This is the reason to spam topic with unrelated stuff?

Feel free to discuss MoP/Cata warlocks in 13963 other threads open in this forum, don't see reason why not if lack of topic related news are the reason to deviate.

Well I mean... you helped start that conversation.

Oh yeah the MoP days where we were 25% over everyone else in just about anything but pure single target.

Point is, it was OP as fuck and if you want that back then we would be hammered with a lot of nerfs for that.

I prefer reasonable balance to exist so that when I am doing good it happens because I do right things at the right time and not roll my face over the keyboard and top like in SoO. I am much rather game around weaknesses I can acceptably live with, because that is where the fun is - kicking ass despite some handicaps.

Besides that, Destruction is shaping up to be real good in Legion, we have a lot of tools others can only dream of and as I see it, mobility is one of the not many disadvantages we have and even that is in line with most other casters now with the Legion changes up from being terrible in WoD.

But hey, I get your drift, godmode is amusing for some time if that's your thing. I remember was driving guildies nuts with megalomania power trips in guild chat

Maybe don't talk about mop if you're so sensitive about it?

[Gaidax]

Well I mean... you helped start that conversation.

Maybe don't talk about mop if you're so sensitive about it?

That's great, but this is the limit, so stop this. It's not kindergarten here, the guy who says the last word is not the one who is right, ok?

Thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

Well I support the idea of leaving the CD in the sake of not nerfing; I haven't tested it (rolled from lvl 13 demo artifact, so I can't even reach Dimensional Ripper yet) so I'm clueless about what damage it does. It's just so iconic and I was overhyped seeing this trait.

Have any of you guys been able to obtain that AP-boosting book from the archivist? I've gotten 2 of them and they just disappear when I pick them up. Some DH told me that it's bugged and sometimes it works sometimes not, but at least he can use it - I can't.

The book was working ok in Alpha, it does disappear, but it gives bonus it should give regardless. Did not try in Beta, because I slacked for a week.

Out of all artifact "talents" - Lord of Flames is most impressive, but going Dimensional Ripper way is probably overall better simply because of talents on the way to it and rifts themselves are pretty powerful as well so more of them was nice in Alpha for me.

You can roll a PvP character in PvP realm and instantly get fully unlocked artifact if you want to check out Lord of Flames fast.

[Deleted]

That's great, but this is the limit, so stop this. It's not kindergarten here, the guy who says the last word is not the one who is right, ok?

Thanks.

if ppl want to discuss something about MoP related to legion then they are perfectly allowed to, if you dont wont to partake in the discussion then dont, ez pz.

am i the only 1 that thinks lord of flames is a bit bland? for an ability with a 10 min cd it isnt really that impressive imo, maybe its just me, maybe my belief that the longer the cd, the more powerful the spell.

[Gaidax]

am i the only 1 that thinks lord of flames is a bit bland? for an ability with a 10 min cd it isnt really that impressive imo, maybe its just me, maybe my belief that the longer the cd, the more powerful the spell.

I'm not sure what did you expect of this spell... In my book something that at my current gear level does 1.5 million single target damage compared to Chaos Bolt doing 600k if Mastery RNG smiles on me and eradication is up AND having AoE component with it is pretty darn powerful.

[Deleted]

I think 5 min, similiar to hunter's stampede, would have been more appropiate

overall, long CDs like these are always a bit boring imho.

[Baconeggcheese]

That's great, but this is the limit, so stop this. It's not kindergarten here, the guy who says the last word is not the one who is right, ok?

Thanks.

Have 0 clue where you got the idea that you're an authority who dictates what people discuss on here, but you aren't. So if you could have your tantrum elsewhere we'll talk about whatever the hell we want to talk about. Feel free to join the conversation like you did when you started it.

Thanks.

[Woz]

Keep the bickering to a minimum, everyone can talk about anything even if it's comparing the spec to other expansions. You can definitely talk about whatever you want in regards to Destruction coming into Legion and that includes comparisons between expansions.

Speaking in a general sense MoP Destro was a fair bit more intuitive than Legion Destro as has been said, if not only because it was much more fluid of a spec and not reliant on so much RNG as it is now in Legion.

[Tehterokkar]

Blizzard did good with Legion Destro imo. They changed a few things around, such as defining the spec to be insane at ST burst and Cleave(Havoc on boss, nuke priority targets), which are the most common situations in raids. AoE suffered a big hit, but Rain of Fire is not a dead button anymore I guess...

My pros and cons:

Pros:
-Shadowburn usable on targets above 20% health praise the lawd
-The demon row has interesting choices this time actually, especially since Supremacy now gives Doomguard/Infernal instead of Imp with 20% more dmg.
-Havoc is godmode now, 3 Chaos Bolts back-to-back-to-back will be pretttyy goood.
-Interesting talents, I particularly love Reverse Entropy and Eradication

Cons:
-Incinerate feels like a braindead filler button until you get the Artifact perk, should have given it like a 10% chance to generate a Shard. It does nothing except damage.
-AoE feels awkward as hell, with Wreak Havoc, Rain of Fire is only better than Havoc at 5 or more targets, before perks, with CB enhancing perks, might change to 6 targets..

About the mastery.... yeah....... It automatically makes this stat garbage for progress where you want consistent damage.

And finally the artifact, I think the ability itself is interesting where it can offer a lot of burst, too bad it doesn't work with Havoc(since it's a guardian). Regarding golden perks, as I mentioned, Dimensional Ripper makes Incinerate somewhat useful. Lord of Flames has potential for burst AoE situations once per fight essentially. And Conflagration seems like a solid trait all around, though proc chance is not available on tooltip, would be nice to know.

The all non-golden 1/1 traits are really solid, 50% self heal, increased pet damage/AoE(with GoSac) and 30s off our 1.5min CD self CD. 40% Dmg reduction with 1 min CD? Yes please. And we get a 30% additional decrease for 6s for 10% health, 58% dmg reduction is insanely helpful for potentially skipping some raid mechanics. The only really potential dead trait is the Drain Life one, which can be useful for soloing, not so much for raids.

[Gaidax]

I keep seeing people dissing Mastery without realizing just how strong it is, combined with how much weaker crit got because 15% WoD bonus for destruction was eliminated and it not helping that much with shards really compared to embers.

To put this in perspective, currently I have:

4481 Crit Rating - this equals to +12.8% crit - to a total of 17.8% crit
9118 Mastery Rating - this equals to + up to 78.15% damage - to a total of up to 102.15% damage.

Slash my mastery rating by half and it will be close to my current crit rating, which will become: +12.8% crit vs + up to 38% more damage raw stat benefit. (Haste scales as crit with rating btw).

That said - mastery does not affect pets and rifts, however even taking that in account - I believe Mastery will be a top stat to take or at the very least very competitive with alternatives, especially because it provides strong actual damage benefit AND comes with a juicy damage reduction component on top of that. At 102% mastery you have up to 22% damage reduction, that is not a small amount.

If anything, my experience shows that stacking Mastery to high heaven seems to deliver in Alpha/Beta.

----

And yes baseline AoE got gutted, Rain of Fire is not a weak spell, it's ok, but it by itself is not really that much and every time tank moves trash out of it makes me /sadface... and this is happening like 40% of the time at least.

[Tehterokkar]

Issue with AoE is that it requires a very high target count compared to other classes, before that target count is reached, cleave on 2 target is superior.

[Gaidax]

I'm not so sure, it's not that Havoc is available 24/7 unless you take the talent. In my experience, the best way is to dump RoF, stick a couple immolates and then cleave Chaos Bolts. If it's just a bunch of low HP crap like dogs on Naglfar, then outright RoF and cleave Shadowburns.

RoF is not terrific, but it is not that terrible at all. I'd say my biggest gripe with RoF is not damage, but the fact that it is ground targeted AoE with over-time duration, which makes it very inconvenient if tank needs to move shit around.