[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Gaidax]

We can't assess anything yet, for a short time Destruction was playable on Alpha without artifact you could run around and frikkin bury things with a bunch of instant casts.

I'm not even sure what you base the mobility issue on, you realize Shadowburn is now usable on targets with any HP% and you can cast 10 of those in the row if you spec into it and that our DPS cd now is a guardian and thus active regardless of us standing still or not?

Being able to bury things with instants is a bit discouraging?

[Uzkin]

We can't assess anything yet, for a short time Destruction was playable on Alpha without artifact you could run around and frikkin bury things with a bunch of instant casts.

I'm not even sure what you base the mobility issue on, you realize Shadowburn is now usable on targets with any HP% and you can cast 10 of those in the row if you spec into it and that our DPS cd now is a guardian and thus active regardless of us standing still or not?

Being able to bury things with instants is a bit discouraging?

That's perhaps applicable to PvP but in PvE you'd probably often want to sit on those shards and use them later on Chaos Bolts instead. That is, if we assume that spending shards on CB nets more damage than spending them on SB, which I think is their intent (otherwise SB would completely replace Chaos Bolt in destro rotation). What I mean by "often" is that you'd end up doing some nasty mental gymnastics, based on the movement length and other factors, whether it's better to just do nothing (or /wrist) during movement sparing shards or spend them on sub-optimal SB.

[nerdzrool]

That's perhaps applicable to PvP but in PvE you'd probably often want to sit on those shards and use them later on Chaos Bolts instead. That is, if we assume that spending shards on CB nets more damage than spending them on SB, which I think is their intent (otherwise SB would completely replace Chaos Bolt in destro rotation). What I mean by "often" is that you'd end up doing some nasty mental gymnastics, based on the movement length and other factors, whether it's better to just do nothing (or /wrist) during movement sparing shards or spend them on sub-optimal SB.

Situations like that almost always work out in favor of casting whatever you can on the move rather than waiting for slightly more damage. SB/CB will almost certainly be no different.

[Baconeggcheese]

There's also a legendary that gives you X seconds of movement after Y seconds of standing still, as well as others.

Assuming any decent movement legendary goes in, it'd be the solution to crutching destros lack of movement.

[avahle]

There's also a legendary that gives you X seconds of movement after Y seconds of standing still, as well as others.

Assuming any decent movement legendary goes in, it'd be the solution to crutching destros lack of movement.

I would really hate it if Blizzard balanced specs around legendaries considering how random their acquisition is. Now, if there are ways we can work towards unlocking specific legendaries, I would be okay with it.

[Deleted]

If anything, Destro looks like it will have improved mobility over WoD.

[PickleballAce]

Shadowburn's tuning is key. If Chaos Bolt ends up being sufficiently strong enough in comparison we could conceivably be in a situation where even though you CAN cast Shadowburn on the move, you wouldn't want to because it would ultimately be coming at the expense of half-a-Chaos Bolt. Remember that it is a resource-limited spell, not merely time-limited like a Fel Flame.

I mean, if you're capped on shards with Immolates ticking, or you absolutely need to use it for something like the spoopy gorefiend skeletons or you've got a proc window about to run out, or something is about to die...there are definitely situations where it'll be a green light either way on the move. But it probably won't be as simple as always casting it when we're forced to move and Conflag is on CD.

EDIT: I guess I'm just re-iterating what the guy above said.

[Kirroth]

Shadowburn's tuning is key. If Chaos Bolt ends up being sufficiently strong enough in comparison we could conceivably be in a situation where even though you CAN cast Shadowburn on the move, you wouldn't want to because it would ultimately be coming at the expense of half-a-Chaos Bolt. Remember that it is a resource-limited spell, not merely time-limited like a Fel Flame.

Right. The thing to remember is that Shadowburn isn't on a major throughput talent tier. F&B increases AoE damage and Backdraft is only a modest DPS increase because those extra Incinerates aren't generating more resources anymore. We can be certain that while Shadowburn costs half the time and resources of a Chaos Bolt, it'll do something less than half the damage. Especially once artifact traits come into play.

So what utility purpose will Shadowburn have? Lots. Do you need the damage out faster than a Chaos Bolt? Would a full Chaos Bolt be overkill? Do you need to move but can't wait till you can stand still to do damage? Is your target going to die within 5 seconds (and return 2 SS for the 1 spent)? Then in all those cases Shadowburn is useful.

Bonus question: Did you notice the common trait to all those situations? That's right, it's boss adds. (Although PvP would also be an acceptable answer.) Shadowburn is the utility talent for boss fights with lots of adds that you want to kill quickly with minimum overkill and can snipe for extra SS return. In those situations you can be pretty sure it'll shine. But if it looks like Shadowburn would be good enough to replace Chaos Bolt rotationally, you can count on it getting hit with the nerf bat until that stops being true.

[Baconeggcheese]

I would really hate it if Blizzard balanced specs around legendaries considering how random their acquisition is. Now, if there are ways we can work towards unlocking specific legendaries, I would be okay with it.

Considering they said there would be a way to target farm at blizzcon when they announced it....

I imagine there's a decent chance we'll get a way to target farm them.

[Kirroth]

Considering they said there would be a way to target farm at blizzcon when they announced it....

I imagine there's a decent chance we'll get a way to target farm them.

If I had to wager a guess, it's that they won't be global world drops. The datamined ones with fewer Place Holder traits tend to have rather distinct lore attributes in their name and flavor text. It might be that each legendary only has a chance to drop from certain mob types. Then people who are really determined to get a specific one could farm the dungeons and areas where those mob types exist.

[Gaidax]

If I had to wager a guess, it's that they won't be global world drops. The datamined ones with fewer Place Holder traits tend to have rather distinct lore attributes in their name and flavor text. It might be that each legendary only has a chance to drop from certain mob types. Then people who are really determined to get a specific one could farm the dungeons and areas where those mob types exist.

Most likely, or simply located in some specific area as a random drop. Think Green Fire quest book, it's also pretty much "targeted".

[Kirroth]

Most likely, or simply located in some specific area as a random drop. Think Green Fire quest book, it's also pretty much "targeted".

Zone based drops have the same downside as Skyshards did back in Pandaria's Vale. People will try to camp farming spots that combine fragile mobs with fast respawns and fight over control of them. It's possible, but I'd consider it a less likely mechanic.

[Soulzar]

If I had to wager a guess, it's that they won't be global world drops. The datamined ones with fewer Place Holder traits tend to have rather distinct lore attributes in their name and flavor text. It might be that each legendary only has a chance to drop from certain mob types. Then people who are really determined to get a specific one could farm the dungeons and areas where those mob types exist.

Several builds ago I saw a legendary item that looked to stack. I suspected at the time it would be the drops we gather and then turn in for a specific legendary. Similar to Abrogator stones. So say after you get 200 drops from random mobs you go to an NPC and purchase the one you want. Speculation.

[Kirroth]

Several builds ago I saw a legendary item that looked to stack. I suspected at the time it would be the drops we gather and then turn in for a specific legendary. Similar to Abrogator stones. So say after you get 200 drops from random mobs you go to an NPC and purchase the one you want. Speculation.

Doubtful. The Devs talked about wanting to bring back the excitement of getting a special rare drop with unique properties. Grinding currency to buy something from a vendor is pretty much the exact opposite of that.

[Baconeggcheese]

If there's a currency I imagine its to upgrade the legendberries to give us another method of power progression.

Would also make sense since the Ilvl of the legendaries keeps getting lower and lower and it'd need to raise if they plan for them to be relevant for the entire xpac.

Unless blizzard plans to curb the ridiculous ilvl inflation that's been going on, but I highly doubt that.

[demonicpanda]

If there's a currency I imagine its to upgrade the legendberries to give us another method of power progression.

Would also make sense since the Ilvl of the legendaries keeps getting lower and lower and it'd need to raise if they plan for them to be relevant for the entire xpac.

Unless blizzard plans to curb the ridiculous ilvl inflation that's been going on, but I highly doubt that.

I thought they had said earlier that the legendaries would grow in power with each tier? Could just be lowering the base ilvl is to keep them from being too mandatory? Idk tho. I can't find the quote I was thinking of.

[Jessicka]

I thought they had said earlier that the legendaries would grow in power with each tier? Could just be lowering the base ilvl is to keep them from being too mandatory? Idk tho. I can't find the quote I was thinking of.

I know we can only equip one, but aren't we going to have to bank several to work them around tier pieces? Would kinda suck to get one then your first tier drop is for the same slot...

[Duckz0rs]

So then the legendberries could be random drops and the stackable item Soulzar talked about will work like Crystallized Fel from Archimonde?

[Baconeggcheese]

I thought they had said earlier that the legendaries would grow in power with each tier? Could just be lowering the base ilvl is to keep them from being too mandatory? Idk tho. I can't find the quote I was thinking of.

Grow in power with each tier could be done through drops to upgrade the legendary that are only available in specific tiers.

I'm just thinking out loud though, I have no idea what they're doing obv.

I know we can only equip one, but aren't we going to have to bank several to work them around tier pieces? Would kinda suck to get one then your first tier drop is for the same slot...

We'll have to hold on to a bunch of them because a lot of them are situational even without factoring in tier etc. We'll be swapping them in and out on a per fight basis just like we do trinkets right now.

Though it looks like most of them are not in tier slots (rings, belts, bracers, boots, capes) and also have effects that could easily be competitive with a tier bonus if they do overlap. Wouldn't be the greatest feeling but eh.

[Kirroth]

I know we can only equip one, but aren't we going to have to bank several to work them around tier pieces? Would kinda suck to get one then your first tier drop is for the same slot...

A lot of them seem to be in non-tier slots. Some of them do overlap, though. Maybe they'll be reassigned before release, or more likely the Devs will stick the higher power legendary items there so that they come with a higher opportunity cost.