[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Grizelda]

I think it's just that they don't really have any better ideas for an end tree artifact talent, and god forbid they add another button, so now they can't figure out a smooth way to implement it.

It's a cool idea and I hope they make it work. I'm sure they will unless we run out of time for them to iterate on it...

[Baconeggcheese]

Of course, it's only this extra shard and time if you want to use LoF at some point that is not the start (or nearly the start) of the fight. Because you can just open with the infernal out in that case, of course.

That'd still be an extra cast / shard spent summoning the DG and opening with infernal dmg instead of doomguard damage.

And in the event that that's worth it that'd mean the dmg from its strong enough that you'd want to save it for an aoe moment anyway.

[Deleted]

That'd still be an extra cast / shard spent summoning the DG and opening with infernal dmg instead of doomguard damage.

And in the event that that's worth it that'd mean the dmg from its strong enough that you'd want to save it for an aoe moment anyway.

Or we use it at the end of a fight, saving use from changing back to doomguard. But that could be bad aswell. Better just to use service tbh.

[Vimpe]

this is sort of off topic but, have we gotten our old immolate animation back in legion?

[Fallensaint]

You'd have to drop 2 shards and 2 casts to get the infernal out just to summon the 4 and then swap back to doomguard. Tuning on lord of flames determines whether or not that's even worth doing, but my kneejerk inclination is that it wouldn't be compared to just having service or gosac and the cooldown.

Two shards every 10 minutes is less than the one shard per three minutes you'd be spending on the guardian CD without GoSup. The extra casting may be an issue, but the lower shard usage may offset that cost.

[Baconeggcheese]

Two shards every 10 minutes is less than the one shard per three minutes you'd be spending on the guardian CD without GoSup. The extra casting may be an issue, but the lower shard usage may offset that cost.

The cost is not that substantial and the benefit of gosup is the passive dmg that comes from the doomguard. The point is more trying to weigh that + the pet twisting at least once per fight to make this trait work vs the other 2 talents.

It can work just fine assuming certain tuning, I'm just not holding my breath considering what blizzards done in the past. Which makes no mention of how poor game play it is.

[Xorn]

Yeah, it should really just be a separate button. It's a little clunky as is, even with one of the other two talents.

Apparently I've had Beta access for like a month now, but never check my email so, that was a fun surprise.

[demonicpanda]

For the GoSup version of that trait, they should just make a second Infernal permanent like Hati for BM.

[Roujeaux]

So wait. In this latest Beta build we can choose the new Soul Harvest, GoServ, AND our three minute Guardians? That sounds quite redundant.

[Dastey]

I love that portals are instant, it felt quite unsatisfying casting a spell just for it to not do anything immideately.
I really dislike the swapping of Fire and Brimstone and Cataclysm though, I intend to take Mana Entropy so Cataclysm will unfortunately be dead to me now
The Soul Harvest change is interesting but I feel like for destruction since we can't aoe immolate it will be something like 12-14 seconds and in that case I think I will just prefer the extra damage after casting chaos bolts

[Baconeggcheese]

I'm kinda worried with the direction they're going with these CD's. The legendberry is a flat damage% for doomguard summon (currently 40) + 20% from soul harvest + stacking things like serv and portals and the doomguard itself. Worried that they'll use that as an excuse to keep our base damage low... which I'd rather not go to the opposite extreme now.

Portals being instant is good noodles, soul harvest is definitely an improvement.. but yeah concerning. If the legendary didn't exist I'd be a lot more comfortable and love it actually, but like this not so much.

- - - Updated - - -

since we can't aoe immolate

Cataclysm.

[Uzkin]

So now we have a 1.5 min, 2 min, 3 min, and 10 min cooldown? Seems messy; I'd much prefer the old 10 min guardian + 2 min dark soul (2 charges) cooldowns.

[Gaidax]

So now we have a 1.5 min, 2 min, 3 min, and 10 min cooldown? Seems messy; I'd much prefer the old 10 min guardian + 2 min dark soul (2 charges) cooldowns.

Well, it's not like we have to take every last bloody cooldown talent there is... you want them all, then yeah it's like that.

But with current tuning, Eradication is simply better than Soul Harvest, except for maybe burst AoE.

- - - Updated - - -

Instant rifts are pretty awesome.

[gruxxar]

Gotta agree with Gaidax, Eradication stills seems better. 12% extra dmg from every CB cast? The uptime on it will be so high on that buff that it'll outweigh Soul harvest pretty hard. Considering we'll have Immo out on (most likely) max. 3-4 targets, that's not even 20 seconds of Soul harvest.

I does seems like a nice PvP talent, paired up with Firestone & a Shadowburn build, this could reck quite hard.

(Mana tap, 2 rifts, pop cd's, spam that shadowburn)

[Duckz0rs]

Gotta agree with Gaidax, Eradication stills seems better. 12% extra dmg from every CB cast? The uptime on it will be so high on that buff that it'll outweigh Soul harvest pretty hard. Considering we'll have Immo out on (most likely) max. 3-4 targets, that's not even 20 seconds of Soul harvest.

I does seems like a nice PvP talent, paired up with Firestone & a Shadowburn build, this could reck quite hard.

(Mana tap, 2 rifts, pop cd's, spam that shadowburn)

I'd wager it'll still outweigh Reverse Entropy on AoE fights when combined with Cataclysm. The cooldowns match up pretty decently and should work well together. They seem to cater to different scenario's mostly. I'm guessing that's why they swapped F&B and Cata.

[Soulzar]

I'd wager it'll still outweigh Reverse Entropy on AoE fights when combined with Cataclysm. The cooldowns match up pretty decently and should work well together. They seem to cater to different scenario's mostly. I'm guessing that's why they swapped F&B and Cata.

Is Cataclysm going to pair well with it though? If the Immolates need to be up before you use Soul Harvest to get the duration increase, you either need to manually immolate mobs or cast cata before Soul Harvest.

Using a 1min burst AoE cooldown before using a 20% dmg buff cd seems silly, yet so does manually immolating mobs when you have Cata off CD.

[Sylar Hao]

I'm dissapointed with the swap between Cataclysm and F&B. I really wanted to play Reversed Entropy + Cataclysm.

[Duckz0rs]

Is Cataclysm going to pair well with it though? If the Immolates need to be up before you use Soul Harvest to get the duration increase, you either need to manually immolate mobs or cast cata before Soul Harvest.

Using a 1min burst AoE cooldown before using a 20% dmg buff cd seems silly, yet so does manually immolating mobs when you have Cata off CD.

That depends, does the duration update dynamically? Might be worth a shot to test in Beta (don't have access myself): cast Soul Harvest and then Cata on several targets and see if the duration updates. I'd wager they're intended to work together because of the talent tier change between Cata and F&B, so I (possibly wrongly) assumed that would be the case.

[Deleted]

Is Cataclysm going to pair well with it though? If the Immolates need to be up before you use Soul Harvest to get the duration increase, you either need to manually immolate mobs or cast cata before Soul Harvest.

Using a 1min burst AoE cooldown before using a 20% dmg buff cd seems silly, yet so does manually immolating mobs when you have Cata off CD.

to be fair, destro really have nothing to complain about as it is the spec which by far has it the easiest when it comes to applying the spells that affects soul harvest, things like cata and wreak havoc makes it significantly easier for destro while the demo talent hand of doom is in the same tier as soul harvest and afflic doesnt have any ability to affect multiple targets with agony at once, so any complaints about the new soul harvest from a destro pov is pretty pointless coz the other 2 specs are infinitely worse off, atleast destro have options.

[Uzkin]

Well, it's not like we have to take every last bloody cooldown talent there is... you want them all, then yeah it's like that.

But with current tuning, Eradication is simply better than Soul Harvest, except for maybe burst AoE.

You are essentially justifying the really bad legion destro redesign by the possibility/hope that the poorly designed abilities may also end up weak enough so that they don't have to be used.

It's fine if Mana Tap feels awful; lets just hope it's so weak we don't have to use it.

It's fine if the new Mastery feels awful; lets just hope it's so weak we can avoid stacking it.

It's fine if there's a whole bunch of different cooldowns available; lets just hope they are so weak we don't have to use them.

etc. etc.

IOW, "Yeah, they may have failed in spec design; now lets hope they will fail in tuning, also."

Oh, and it's also somewhat poor design to fix the spec's inherent mobility issues via artifact talent. Sure, it might work between levels 10x -- 110 but not outside that. Incinerate will also feel really useless and boring during leveling since it won't have any interaction with the rest of the spec (no FnB, no Dimensional Ripper). Generally, the destruction mechanics, toolkit, and theme all became much worse upon the legion redesign.