[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[Deleted]

Anyone currently playing the alpha able to give a small detailed overview of each legendary?
Haven't had time to touch it and would like to hear how they're panning out, especially the dread stalker generator.

[Halwyn]

While we're at it, anyone thinks passing a suggestion to the feedback threads for a button to redirect all of the current pets' attacks against chosen target will do some good?

[Kirroth]

While we're at it, anyone thinks passing a suggestion to the feedback threads for a button to redirect all of the current pets' attacks against chosen target will do some good?

No. As I just said in another thread, they won't do it for game balance reasons.

What you have to realize is that from a game mechanics PoV, Dreadstalkers and Wild Imps are DoTs. They're just DoTs in the form of a temp pet instead of a magic debuff. You're not supposed to be able to easily swap targets with them, just like Afflic isn't supposed to be easily gather up all their DoTs and dump them on a new target. They're stuck to a target until it dies because that's where Demo's target commitment and damage ramp comes from.

Be glad they redirect to a new target if their initial one dies. Afflic doesn't get any credit if a target dies with time remaining on their DoTs.

[Stupud]

No. As I just said in another thread, they won't do it for game balance reasons.

What you have to realize is that from a game mechanics PoV, Dreadstalkers and Wild Imps are DoTs. They're just DoTs in the form of a temp pet instead of a magic debuff. You're not supposed to be able to easily swap targets with them, just like Afflic isn't supposed to be easily gather up all their DoTs and dump them on a new target. They're stuck to a target until it dies because that's where Demo's target commitment and damage ramp comes from.

Not sure I agree with this at all. On live right now:

BM Hunters - if they switch targets, their "permanent" pet switches when commanded or after a few attacks as does any additional summoned beasts (dire beast, stampede);
Enh Shaman - Wolves switch after a few attacks when a new target is chosen;
Elem Shaman - Fire totem switches after a few attacks

These should switch too, but only after a few attacks if they are following the same pet AI that Blizzard has been using

[Kirroth]

This is what I'm talking about. You're confusing form with function. Yes, those are all indirect damage where a secondary unit makes the attack instead of your character. No, those are all permanent pets or procs or cooldowns, not DoTs.

[Baconeggcheese]

What you have to realize is that from a game mechanics PoV, Dreadstalkers and Wild Imps are DoTs.

They do damage over time, but they are not dots in the conventional sense. They are physical pets that can be killed and persist even if the target dies.

If anything them being similar damage wise is more reason for them to have a way to swap targets to create a more significant differentiation from aff instead of it just being our 2nd "dot" spec.

I'm not sure what balance reason there'd be to not have that.

[Walterion]

They do damage over time, but they are not dots in the conventional sense. They are physical pets that can be killed and persist even if the target dies.

If anything them being similar damage wise is more reason for them to have a way to swap targets to create a more significant differentiation from aff instead of it just being our 2nd "dot" spec.

I'm not sure what balance reason there'd be to not have that.

I think the same, I don't see why the guardians and extra pets shouldn't be able to target another thing after their main target is down or retarget after a certain amount of time.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one who is annoyed by the fact that the Felguard doesn't keep 60 Energy and thus prevents using Felstorm sometimes? Would it really be so bad to reduce the cost to 40 or something?

[Deleted]

Been searching Youtube past few days but can't seem to find any Legion demo bg vids, anyone seen any? Only the odd duel or so I could find. Really interested to see how it plays in multi-combat compared to Affliction (even if it's not as good, for sheer enjoy-ability will probs play it in rated)
I know they are going to work on pet AI so target switching SHOULD become much better

[Baconeggcheese]

Been searching Youtube past few days but can't seem to find any Legion demo bg vids, anyone seen any? Only the odd duel or so I could find. Really interested to see how it plays in multi-combat compared to Affliction (even if it's not as good, for sheer enjoy-ability will probs play it in rated)
I know they are going to work on pet AI so target switching SHOULD become much better

I'm trying to imagine what that would look like but it just doesn't seem like the kind of spec that'd be an ideal choice for the kind of dmg locks do in rbg's. I guess call observer could be really powerful during a skirmish, and you'd spend a lot of your time between spamming demonwrath and just summoning shenanigans amounts of imps and spreading doom + maintaining beholder. Probably use implosion to try and burst priority targets after summoning all those imps maybe?

Haven't personally bothered with bg's yet so *shrug*

[Deleted]

It definitely has a place in rbgs where you can spam dooms and everything and its a really strong spec for contesting flags with beholders putting down quite some damage and the option to get fel lord or observers to get even more area denial.
If you leave a lock aff/demo unchecked while assaulting a flag you gonna have a bad time.

The only downside is the ramp up time required as usual, but as we have plenty of defensive tools thats kinda balanced.
Dont expect to burst unless you are in a big skirmish and you can chain beholder/observer into a big implosion

[Kaeth]

The most recently datamined PTR patch notes indicated a nerf to Soul Leech from 15% to 10%. Based upon how tanky locks have reportedly been in Alpha since the new Soul Leech was implemented, that change was probably justified.

But the part which worries me is the corresponding change to Soul Link. Was it really slashed by 50%? Can any Alpha players give feedback on how much (or how little) healing Soul Link is providing after being reduced to half its previous value in combination with a 33% nerf to the passive which feeds into it? That would suggest that Soul Link is only providing 1/3 the healing it did before this PTR build.

Or if I get a Beta invite (fingers crossed), maybe I can find out after Thursday!

[Deleted]

The most recently datamined PTR patch notes indicated a nerf to Soul Leech from 15% to 10%. Based upon how tanky locks have reportedly been in Alpha since the new Soul Leech was implemented, that change was probably justified.

But the part which worries me is the corresponding change to Soul Link. Was it really slashed by 50%? Can any Alpha players give feedback on how much (or how little) healing Soul Link is providing after being reduced to half its previous value in combination with a 33% nerf to the passive which feeds into it? That would suggest that Soul Link is only providing 1/3 the healing it did before this PTR build.

Or if I get a Beta invite (fingers crossed), maybe I can find out after Thursday!

Curious to know if it's just the Felguard or does all pets (imps, hounds etc) add to the shield/Soul Link healing? If so can probably see why it would be nerfed, would just be constant shield generation with healing on top. Does seem substantial nerf though

[Kaeth]

It's all single-target damage, including that from pets/guardians (that includes dreadstalkers and wild imps). Glad they finally went this route instead of trying to tweak the coefficient for Demo to keep it in line with the other, far-less-pet-reliant specs.

Still seems like they've been slashing Soul Link healing every other patch. I'm just hoping it's still a noticeable heal when they're done with it, and not just a "flavor" ability which provides 1% hp/hour because they're reluctant to make warlocks mad by taking it away, yet at the same time want it to do essentially nothing.

[Spartin]

Question from someone who hasn't played Legion Demo yet, with Wild imps sitting around casting for 10 seconds, won't there be haste thresholds to cycle up to 3 groups of imps at a time rather than two and screw with all our stat prioritizes once we hit it?

[Baconeggcheese]

Question from someone who hasn't played Legion Demo yet, with Wild imps sitting around casting for 10 seconds, won't there be haste thresholds to cycle up to 3 groups of imps at a time rather than two and screw with all our stat prioritizes once we hit it?

I imagine there'll be break points where the imps get an extra cast in since I highly doubt they have partial casts. Haven't checked though. Not sure how much that'll matter though since its not like dots in that you're not casting them more frequently if you don't reach the break point.

I don't know how realistic it'll be to hit such a break point either since we don't have reforging. Don't think it'll matter a ton unless we just happen to be at a point in gearing where the difference between our enchants or a gem can push us over.

[Kaeth]

I imagine there'll be break points where the imps get an extra cast in since I highly doubt they have partial casts.

While I agree with you that it's unlikely, I still think it'd be brilliant on the part of the devs to include a final "partial" fel firebolt in the despawn script for our wild imps to prevent the return of haste breakpoints.

Not going to happen, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that ... I would be really impressed if it did.

[JV Chequer]

Question from someone who hasn't played Legion Demo yet, with Wild imps sitting around casting for 10 seconds, won't there be haste thresholds to cycle up to 3 groups of imps at a time rather than two and screw with all our stat prioritizes once we hit it?

I posted your question on Theorycrafting thread. Hope you don't mind it.

[Baconeggcheese]

While I agree with you that it's unlikely, I still think it'd be brilliant on the part of the devs to include a final "partial" fel firebolt in the despawn script for our wild imps to prevent the return of haste breakpoints.

Not going to happen, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that ... I would be really impressed if it did.

With the new secondary stat scaling and how gearing works these days I just don't see breakpoints being realistic. There appears to be a much larger emphasis on main stat this time around, so you likely won't be willing to wear lower ilvl pieces for secondaries. Which means whatever break point would be determined by what gear is available from the raid, and most likely won't be worth thinking much about unless you're again so close that you can actually effect it with gems or enchants etc.

[Kaeth]

Where I can see breakpoints coming into consideration is, for example, the decision between enchanting (and gemming) straight haste to hit a breakpoint versus stacking mastery. But this is almost purely academic for me -- I'm an LFR/Normal mode schlub who probably won't ever be wearing good enough gear for it to make much of a difference.