[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[Deleted]

An instant cast ability feels clunky in comparison to an ability with 2s cast?

Anyway, Doom fills two purposes: First one is making Demo's sustained AoE / cleave very powerful in comparison to their burst AoE. Another is increasing their sustained single target damage(Against bosses for instance). I would guess that they are intended to be relatively weaker in burst AoE and bursting single targets, or alternatively perhaps having no Doom would put them over the top in that regard. It's like an extreme version of a DoT, as a DoT on a burst target still ticks for instance slightly over half of its ticks and might even then be beneficial, whereas Doom will be entirely useless against a low health target. Actually, there's a third purpose: Casting something while having to move.


The accurate effect remains to be seen until they are done with the first tuning pass, but the general idea is that the purpose of Doom's existence is making Demo's sustained AoE and cleave a lot stronger, making Demo's sustained single target damage slightly stronger, making Demo's burst AoE significantly weaker and making Demo's burst single target damage slightly weaker.

What would you propose to replace it that would fill these purposes? Just removing the spell and buffing other damage to compensate would obviously ruin this balance.

[bio347]

Doom is absolutely iconic of the Classic era. Curse of Doom, as it was then, was a nuclear bomb on a one minute timer, and I'm sure everyone remembers and has a story about the random doomguards. I think something would be lost if you just chucked it completely.

[Deleted]

Doom is absolutely iconic of the Classic era. Curse of Doom, as it was then, was a nuclear bomb on a one minute timer, and I'm sure everyone remembers and has a story about the random doomguards. I think something would be lost if you just chucked it completely.

problem is that ppl either dont remember that far back or are relatively new players that only knows the newer versions. doom has definately been a very demo thematic spell in the past but less so recently but that can be said about a lot of spells, i just think ppl look at it now and think "oh this spell only hits had every 20ish sec and doesnt summon a pet" when that is actually a very recent development.

[Gnarilex]

problem is that ppl either dont remember that far back or are relatively new players that only knows the newer versions. doom has definately been a very demo thematic spell in the past but less so recently but that can be said about a lot of spells, i just think ppl look at it now and think "oh this spell only hits had every 20ish sec and doesnt summon a pet" when that is actually a very recent development.

If they reverted the change and made it summon a doomguard or another demon again I'd be fine with it. But as it stands it only serves as an awkward mechanic for the inquisitor/whatever to do damage.

[Deleted]

If they reverted the change and made it summon a doomguard or another demon again I'd be fine with it. But as it stands it only serves as an awkward mechanic for the inquisitor/whatever to do damage.

I'd prefer it if they inverted the imp on doom damage talent with generating a shard. And also generate an imp when the target dies prematurely.

[Kirroth]

I'd prefer it if they inverted the imp on doom damage talent with generating a shard. And also generate an imp when the target dies prematurely.

A shard is an imp, the next time you cast HoG, plus it can be other things like Call Dreadstalkers or Summon Doomguard. I don't know why you'd want to make it weaker. And thank you, but frantically target swapping to snipe dying adds with Doom for imp procs doesn't sound like my idea of a good time.

[Duckz0rs]

Now, this isn't the same as being good at hard swaps, which is what raid bosses and PvP often demand. But it would seem to be an advantage for something basic like dungeon trash or solo questing, and that's nothing to turn your nose up at.

Eh, honestly, that is exactly something to turn your nose up at. In a very common scenario in all forms of PvP and PvE it can't really do much (hard swaps), but it's really good at something that was never even remotely a problem in the first place. Even during dungeon trash or solo questing I'd rather be able to hard swap. Having dots remain for 1-2 seconds after the target dies isn't going to help you when that boss/elite mob accidentally gets pulled. On top of that, unless you just summoned the Dreadstalkers as the mob dies (which would probably be very sub-optimal play), they'll probably despawn on the way to their next target.

Doom is absolutely iconic of the Classic era. Curse of Doom, as it was then, was a nuclear bomb on a one minute timer, and I'm sure everyone remembers and has a story about the random doomguards. I think something would be lost if you just chucked it completely.

I have fond memories of Doom. Alternating Banish and Doom in Dire Maul during Vanilla to solo much more of it than I should've been able to. Then again, I also have very fond memories of Life Tap allowing me to keep casting in long fights back then, but I'd still prefer to see that spell dead and gone. Nostalgia should not get in the way of current-day mechanics.
I don't particularly have a problem with Doom, but Demo's target switching seems limited and Doom only plays into it further by being required for Beholder and its own delayed damage.

[Deleted]

A shard is an imp, the next time you cast HoG, plus it can be other things like Call Dreadstalkers or Summon Doomguard. I don't know why you'd want to make it weaker. And thank you, but frantically target swapping to snipe dying adds with Doom for imp procs doesn't sound like my idea of a good time.

But when I hand of Doom 200 targets, all I get now is 5 shards. When it generates a shard I need to know when every doom is going to deal damage and give me a shard.

Also, you'd rather Doom everything and deal 0 damage/shards/imps because the target dies before 16-20 seconds? You can't really call it sniping when a target has 15+ seconds to die and it doesn't change normal gameplay.

[Deleted]

A shard is an imp, the next time you cast HoG, plus it can be other things like Call Dreadstalkers or Summon Doomguard. I don't know why you'd want to make it weaker. And thank you, but frantically target swapping to snipe dying adds with Doom for imp procs doesn't sound like my idea of a good time.

i think its more to have a reason to actually cast doom on targets that would die b4 doom would deal dmg, so i dont think that getting a shard and/or imp from doom when targets die prematurely is a bad idea and they could easily add a limit to doom as to how long it needed to be on the target to get the benefits mentioned to prevent the sniping you dont want which wouldnt happen anyway since you would cast doom on them at the start of the fight. it will basically be: cast doom on target>target dies after 12 secs>you gain 1 shard and imp, so there would be no need for sniping at all.

[Gaidax]

I think people are missing one small thing, Doom is one of the highest DPET spells in the game and it's not even a resource spender or on CD for that matter. I think it's only reasonable that it will have some sort of downside or trade off to it, no? The trade off is the time to deliver it's awesomeness.

Not every spell should be good for every situation...

[Deleted]

Unfortunately Doom will be pretty useless for AOE once people gear up. Hardly anything will live long enough.

[Baconeggcheese]

Unfortunately Doom will be pretty useless for AOE once people gear up. Hardly anything will live long enough.

Mythic+ dungeons scale infinitely.

[Netherspark]

Now that's what I call a Beholder!

[Nadiru]

I think people are missing one small thing, Doom is one of the highest DPET spells in the game and it's not even a resource spender or on CD for that matter. I think it's only reasonable that it will have some sort of downside or trade off to it, no? The trade off is the time to deliver it's awesomeness.

Not every spell should be good for every situation...

Doom isn't good for any situation except for single-target or cleave fights, which, while atypical of most DoTs, doesn't mean it's stellar at what it does, either; Doom hardly gives Demonology good cleave. It's mechanically boring (a DoT which pops for ~6 Shadowbolts worth of damage and nothing else) it doesn't interact with anything: Nothing really gets better when you cast Doom, it's just kinda doing its own little thing.

Blizzard could remove Doom and just make Beholder attack non-CC'd targets within 30 yards and there'd be no rotational impact whatsoever.
It seems like a missed connection that Blizzard isn't considering the return of Doom's "summons Doomguard" mechanic given that Legion is supposed to be the "class fantasy" expansion. We're seeing the return of Munters, we're seeing an Arcane spec archetype we haven't seen since TBC, we're seeing DPS Discipline, but Doom can't get its namesake demon back?

[Imnick]

The Beholder not being Durumu any more is good. Hopefully that model can stay unique to that boss now, it was weird seeing it elsewhere.

[Deleted]

Unfortunately Doom will be pretty useless for AOE once people gear up. Hardly anything will live long enough.

yes, but thats only assuming that trash packs will be killed in less than 15-20 secs and far from every pack will be, so doom will hardly be useless, just take the trash in hfc, most of that trash certainly live for more 15 secs but i do agree that that doom will be useless atleast some of the time. its bit of a bad generalization to say that doom will be useless period when it wont, atleast not if blizz past trash is any indication and with mythic+ dungeons it will make doom more useful, not less.

[Gnarilex]

Now that's what I call a Beholder!

I just want the inquisitor back ;-;

Even as a glyph, blizz? I don't need two floating heads to summon.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually if the Inquisitor became a glyph and could be applied to the Imp (as they're both caster demons) that would be great. Could also be applied to the beholder and retain its original function. Just when applied to the imp summon it shoots out shadowfrost bolts instead of firebolts but retains its defensive abilities renamed and whatnot to match the inquisitor.

[eillas]

So what stats should I be shooting for. Haste doesnt seem as important as before. What about Versatility, Crit, and mastery?

[Deleted]

So what stats should I be shooting for. Haste doesnt seem as important as before. What about Versatility, Crit, and mastery?

thats way too early to say, and we cant really say anything until they've made the tuning pass, i would say that i disagree with haste being less important tho, as it straight up increases shard generation, personally, i think crit, haste and mastery will be fairly close in value.

[Kirroth]

thats way too early to say, and we cant really say anything until they've made the tuning pass, i would say that i disagree with haste being less important tho, as it straight up increases shard generation, personally, i think crit, haste and mastery will be fairly close in value.

I mostly agree on both points. We can't get a specific read but we can at least look for abilities that synergize with specific stats. And right now, that does mostly looks like Haste.

Vers is last because we're not tanks. Crits don't trigger anything like the current Doom imp procs. Mastery only buffs the damage element of DemEmp, not the health, so it doesn't back door buff TK's Consumption. Meanwhile Haste may not reduce important cooldowns like it does for some specs, but it does mean more SS generation from casting more SB and faster Doom ticks.

I suspect that Vers with be #4, Crit will be #3, with Haste and Mastery being the top two in some order. It might depend on stat tuning, like how generous the Mastery scaling is and what effect stacking high Haste has on top of the pet haste buff from DemEmp. It might even depend on talent choice, where a Demonbolt/GrimSyn build wants Haste and a Beholder/GrimSup build wants Mastery.