[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Kis]

I saw it mentioned on the previous page that 25% haste feels like a sweet spot, not really based on math but just feels the best. I'm interested to see how it actually pans out. Currently i'm still going with Haste > Crit > Mastery for non STM and Mastery > Haste > Crit for STM.

That is what I think too. Testing with swapping pieces left and right from 740-743 gear on PTR gave me best results with

ToF / RoS / AS / Mindbender / StM on everything above 2 targets with something like 28% crit / 28% haste / 76% mastery (mastery gems and enchants... just my live shadow copied over with mostly CoP gear in the bags)

On 3 targets for 4 minutes that yielded like 160k DPS with 2 minutes of StM, without buffs or pots etc... could be way higher. We will be KINGS of any council fight ever.
I also tried something singletarget with

FotM / Void Ray / Shadowy Insight / Mindbender / StM and class Trinket with more haste (about 33%), this also yielded comparable results (but isn't viable for anything other than single target). Could be alright for longer single target fights where you can't game ToF. Also will drop in efficiency when you lose your class trinket.


The only real competition I see is on the lvl 90 row, even though with the current tier pieces it won't be, Mind Bender is way too strong on that short of a CD.
Everything else is kinda set in stone and cookie cutter already.

ToF / RoS / AS / Mindbender / StM (or LotV for dungeons).
And as Djriff already stated:
Haste > Crit > Mastery for non STM and Mastery > Haste > Crit for STM.

That will be all.

[Djriff]

I'm feeling that Shadowy Insight is still good, especially if you get that legendary for charges of mind blast. Hopefully it remains a viable option all expansion.

[Kohz]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

I really like the Shadow Execution Phase lol.

[Kis]

I'm feeling that Shadowy Insight is still good, especially if you get that legendary for charges of mind blast. Hopefully it remains a viable option all expansion.

I also tried Shadowy Insight and it feels very lackluster in the way it works now. If only Mind Blast had stacks without needing a legendary. The current design is just flawed and on some occasions consumes the proc when you hardcast a mind blast and it procs at that moment etc... (a bug that was reported a lot already)
It should be alright for leveling though as critlevels won't sustain AS for ~105-110 (and Voidform isn't that important to keep up).

[Djriff]

I also tried Shadowy Insight and it feels very lackluster in the way it works now. If only Mind Blast had stacks without needing a legendary. The current design is just flawed and on some occasions consumes the proc when you hardcast a mind blast and it procs at that moment etc... (a bug that was reported a lot already)
It should be alright for leveling though as critlevels won't sustain AS for ~105-110 (and Voidform isn't that important to keep up).

See I actually found Shadowy Insight to be a more enjoyable play style for me, however I did notice that bug when I leveled my first shadow priest and yeah...annoying as all hell.

I definitely planned on using it, since our mobility is trash i'll need everything I can get while leveling and it worked better than AS did for me.
My leveling talents are going to be FoTM, Mind Bomb, Void Lord, Mindbender, Shadowy Insight, and Legacy of the Void.

[Xelran]

Is Surrender to Madness mandatory right now in PvE?

[Deleted]

It would be awesome if stm won't kill you, when you get out of combat. It would be rewarding for the player to not die for choosing the right moment for stm in the encounter.

[Djriff]

Is Surrender to Madness mandatory right now in PvE?

For maximum DPS in raiding, technically yes.

It would be awesome if stm won't kill you, when you get out of combat. It would be rewarding for the player to not die for choosing the right moment for stm in the encounter.

Well it's not intended to be used on normal fights and stuff like that, but the biggest baddest bosses that really drive you insane.

[Xelran]

For maximum DPS in raiding, technically yes.

;_;


How hard is it to keep up for the entire 3 minute duration in a raid environment? I only PvPd so far.

[Djriff]

;_;


How hard is it to keep up for the entire 3 minute duration in a raid environment? I only PvPd so far.

Well I'm like 95% certain i'll have carpel tunnel by the 2nd patch of legion.

You won't be able to maintain the 3 minute duration, I think the best time people have gotten is around 1.5m, but I could be mistaken. I haven't exactly been combing through logs yet.

[Biomega]

The best thing about StM is the flood of youtube videos that is inevitably going to come, showing SPs miscalculating the remaining time left, dying at an inopportune moment, and as a result screwing themselves over, or the raid, or both. It's going to be such fun getting yelled at by the RL for a mandatory talent choice.

[davesignal]

;_;


How hard is it to keep up for the entire 3 minute duration in a raid environment? I only PvPd so far.

Categorically impossible. I've got a shitty, permanently sore wrist and I can still manage a good minute and thirty seconds in ideal circumstances, during which time my DPS rockets upward. After a few tries with it you'll figure out how long you can last and get a feel for when to hit it, such that you die right when the boss does.

The nice thing about StM is that all the talents you take to optimize StM slow your rotation down to a managable level OUTSIDE of StM, so my wrist isn't constantly screaming about having 60%+ haste like when I run Voidlord and Shadow Word: Void.

[aemaet]

I still hope that Celestalon will hold true to his words and StM will be a niche talent, in a sense that "if you can endure the transition from mmorpg into dance dance revolution, while performing required raid mechanics - awesome, here's your top1 dps, you deserve it; otherwise, you'll still be fine". If StM is required just to do mediocre damage, this is going to ruin the spec even more.

[Ilir]

I don't think there is much sense in changing visuals for a spec when that spec struggles to beat tank on trash in dungeons, tbh. It is like buying yourself a new cool cellphone case when your phone is able only to send sms.

It's pretty clear they don't want us to be decent at aoe. They keep nerfing our big hitter and buffing the dots. Everyone knows that dots suck for trash in dungeons.

I would definitely love if they'd change that. But not at the expense of some visual feedback. Since the beginning of the alpha we were told "no one cares 'bout the visual, wait until the last month"...

But anyway, unless they really surprise everyone and suddenly make drastic changes.... my guess is that we'll be strong in ST somewhat, super strong in multi so like a few fights when you need to do 400% more than any other classes for maybe 120% of the results.

[justflayin]

It's pretty clear they don't want us to be decent at aoe. They keep nerfing our big hitter and buffing the dots. Everyone knows that dots suck for trash in dungeons.

I would definitely love if they'd change that. But not at the expense of some visual feedback. Since the beginning of the alpha we were told "no one cares 'bout the visual, wait until the last month"...

But anyway, unless they really surprise everyone and suddenly make drastic changes.... my guess is that we'll be strong in ST somewhat, super strong in multi so like a few fights when you need to do 400% more than any other classes for maybe 120% of the results.

Call me crazy (and yes I know you're exaggerating there) but I really like the idea of having to put in work to actually get results for damage. I honestly do not enjoy COP playstyle and I didn't enjoy MOP shadow that much. This looks like it feels a little more rewarding to play than those styles. Yes our AOE is abhorrent and they really need to do soemthing about it. BUT the class feels fluid and fun to me. (strictly speaking from PVE. I know there are some serious PVP issues)

[Ilir]

Yeah, I'm not against having to put some work. I'm against having to put extra work while not being that great compared to others classes (while having shitty visuals).

I think there needs to be a middle ground.

[davesignal]

I think for pure DPS classes having one spec that is quite hard, for people who enjoy the challenge, is a great idea. But that only works because, having multiple DPS specs, you can have other DPS specs for people to fall back on if they don't like the hard mode spec.

Shadow has no such option. Having two healing specs, as usual, proves problematic to balance around in a variety of cases.

[justflayin]

Yeah, I'm not against having to put some work. I'm against having to put extra work while not being that great compared to others classes (while having shitty visuals).

I think there needs to be a middle ground.

Maybe I need to see more. Unfortuantely I don't have beta access so I can't see how things are with artifact and the new fights. What I have see from a couple pretty decent shadow players is some good damage. We seem competitive on charts. Again this all outside looking in. The weaker visuals compared to others does suck though. Mages (especially fire) have some pretty neat new visuals.

I think for pure DPS classes having one spec that is quite hard, for people who enjoy the challenge, is a great idea. But that only works because, having multiple DPS specs, you can have other DPS specs for people to fall back on if they don't like the hard mode spec.

Shadow has no such option. Having two healing specs, as usual, proves problematic to balance around in a variety of cases.

I understand and I agree. I feel like we've long been a balancing nightmare because of only having one spec.

[Nihilan]

Go go Discipline Holy dps spec complete with golden fiery Holy Form.

My body is ready.

[l33t]

I think for pure DPS classes having one spec that is quite hard, for people who enjoy the challenge, is a great idea. But that only works because, having multiple DPS specs, you can have other DPS specs for people to fall back on if they don't like the hard mode spec.

Shadow has no such option. Having two healing specs, as usual, proves problematic to balance around in a variety of cases.

Except for it is easy to solve this issue using talents which, you know, actually change gameplay. Like they should do. Which makes sense: pures get their +5% crit talents which they absolutely should get as a token of their specialization deeper into a spec; while we get different playstyles to compensate for lack of easy win in form of being able to reroll into facerolling-yet-effective arcane spec.

I seriously feel deja vu, since we were disucssing this matter not once and not twice but a whole bunch of times already