[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Yvaelle]

Puzzle of Yogg was nice but the book of Natalie Seline has an important value with the Forgotten Shadow RP and it was really nice of them to include it.

Yea I guess but books are so boring as offhands at this point, and it's not particularly exciting lorewise except that it relates to the blade / Forgotten Shadow (when I'm a Priestess of Elune for example, so it's race-specific a bit).

That's the age old priest problem though - we're all Priests of slightly different religions.

[Kretan]

I think they could buff shadow crash and still keep the ring in, maybe tone it down a little bit. AoE will be extremely lackluster to those without the ring and a buff to shadow crash will fix that.

Agreed. I'd rather aoe come from shadow crash before anything else. Mechanics aside it's a GORGEOUS animation now.

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Yea I guess but books are so boring as offhands at this point, and it's not particularly exciting lorewise except that it relates to the blade / Forgotten Shadow (when I'm a Priestess of Elune for example, so it's race-specific a bit).

That's the age old priest problem though - we're all Priests of slightly different religions.

I think it would be fantastic if they had us learning and gaining power by reading the book. Heck it was implied that Natalie was able to escape death with spriestly powers..... That to me says she was way more advanced than we are with the void.

Then, eventually, maybe we could write to the book in the end from things the dagger teaches us.

I doubt nay of this would make it in, but nonetheless it would be so amazing.

[Isentropy]

My question to you @Isentropy is won't this tight window get opened up more when we have more base haste? In my tests, I have found 3 target maintenance to be quite easy at 25-30 stacks of void form. At some point, I'm refreshing at a rate significantly faster than needed for 3 targets. Maybe they made the window THIS tight because they expect us to have significantly more base haste in the long run, and they don't want us at any more than 3 targets to start? If you gave us 40% to 50% base haste and loosened the window on refreshing three, wouldn't the new standard be tight refreshing on 4?

It's quite easy, on dummies, where you don't have anything to focus on but trying to do the perfect rotation. In raid environments it's quite different (depending on the encounter as well, of course) and as I also said, council fights with 3 targets aren't the problem. And yes, haste does make it easier, certainly, but how many people can play optimally with as much haste as we'll be getting? Not a lot is the likely answer.

I also completely disagree with having the puzzle box as our offhand... it's already in the game as an item with its own set of quotes, and it doesn't have any established lore that has to do with shadow. The Secrets of the Void book, however, is very relevant to shadow priest lore, even before we had a defined background because it was written by Natalie Seline. Her teachings inspired the founding of the Cult of Forgotten Shadows.

Also keep in mind that Xal'atath used to be Natalie's dagger, so the combination of the dagger plus the book she wrote makes a lot of sense.

[Yvaelle]

I think it would be fantastic if they had us learning and gaining power by reading the book. Heck it was implied that Natalie was able to escape death with spriestly powers..... That to me says she was way more advanced than we are with the void.

Then, eventually, maybe we could write to the book in the end from things the dagger teaches us.

I doubt nay of this would make it in, but nonetheless it would be so amazing.

That definitely makes it sound more interesting to me - but it's still visually a book that we're holding, like we've been doing for 10 years with assorted books. I think I just got excited about the idea of holding a puzzle box - with moar old gods in it

In my mind I'm turning Spriests into Old God collecting Pokemon now, we steal their bits and catch them in puzzle boxes

[Naga Coatl]

I still don't like the idea of the 3 target multidot cap. When I think of a dot/multidot spec, I imagine something that wants to put dots on everything. The more, the better. The 3 target cap seems so... Arbitrary, and I don't know exactly what we should expect from a balancing point of view. Will they balance well a spec with such defined limits? Will we be crippled when there will not be exacly 1-3 targets?.

The fact that apparently we should not be able to keep them up on more because of our intricate mechanics to me is a bad thing, something that shouldn't have been a balancing factor/problem to begin with. I feel like we should have received mechanics to support multidot, and not a multidot limited by mechanics.

Dot spec? --> Dots as a priority on everything you can, keep them up

That's what I feel intuitive and appropriate for what should be a dot spec. Not saying that what we'll get will be bad, just... A weird solution to the multidot problem. Sounds somewhat wrong to me.

[Deleted]

There is still time between the void bolts and mind blasts to cast some dots. Its just not as efficient as refreshing dots with void bolt. Should still be better than a cast of mindflay.

[Isentropy]

It's not really a cap. You'll still want to put up dots on everything you see, basically, you just won't be able to refresh their duration with Void Bolt on all of them. That's because of balance reasons, but also because it takes away a big element of the playstyle, namely... multidotting.

[KrakHed]

Hi all. Some more dagger quotes for you


I think I got the first one near the Naaru in the order hall. The second whisper appeared when I was approaching the Suramar city for the first time.
The sleeping city was also mentioned here: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Puzzle_Box_of_Yogg-Saron
Looks like spoilers to me)

So it's familiar with the Naaru? Also, that comparison makes it sound like Ny'alotha is actually an incredibly grand city in its own way, even if it's also a place of madness and dreams.

1st one : "Skovald would like to rally the destructors. He doesn't see he'll be betrayed like many before him did." When meeting Skovad in the dungeon. I guess the destructors are the legion.

2nd one : "Another brute serving Sargeras who claims he's helping the elves. They don't see it coming." This occured when I met the Legion (looks like a felguard) boss in the Arcway dungeon. The elves in here are the Suramar's elves, nightborne I think. I think he means they'll get betrayed when he says "They don't see it coming."

3rd one : "She owes/she got her form (= her look) to/from N'Zoth, but her arrogance belongs to her entirely." When meeting the Naga Lady in the Eye of Azshara dungeon. In english, the "peut-être" (= maybe) could be translated like that "Although she owes/got her form to/from N'Zoth, her arrogance is entirely hers."

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Those were from 2 days ago... Will try to get more. But I'm super tired lately without really knowing why :'(

Well, that all sounds about right. The Legion does have a solid track record of screwing people over. The Naga are still connected to N'Zoth.

Anyhow, I hope you feel more awake soon. I know what that's like.

[Naga Coatl]

I'm sorry, I worded very poorly my last post. I get that we will want to put dot on everything, it was more the fact that it will be "easy" for 1-3, and manual/frantic for the rest (expecially if we bring on the VT/GCD 'cap' concern). I would have preferred a more straightforward thing, where you know you want to do a simple thing like 'put dot on everything, don't worry about having to do extra stuff just for 1-3 targets' while risking to watch dots fall out because of their short duration if there are many targets since IIRC every other spell has more priority.

[deviantcultist]

Yea I guess but books are so boring as offhands at this point, and it's not particularly exciting lorewise except that it relates to the blade / Forgotten Shadow (when I'm a Priestess of Elune for example, so it's race-specific a bit).

That's the age old priest problem though - we're all Priests of slightly different religions.

I think that as the class lore evolves, "race religions" start to become irrelevant since it all falls down to understanding the Light and the Void along with the balance required. I expect the book to be compensated somehow if it gets replaced with the puzzle.

[Yvaelle]

I think that as the class lore evolves, "race religions" start to become irrelevant since it all falls down to understanding the Light and the Void along with the balance required. I expect the book to be compensated somehow if it gets replaced with the puzzle.

Maybe in Tier 20 we can wear the book as a hat?

MADNESS WILL CONSUME YOU! (Also silliness!)

[Aeriel]

I think it would be fantastic if they had us learning and gaining power by reading the book. Heck it was implied that Natalie was able to escape death with spriestly powers..... That to me says she was way more advanced than we are with the void.

Then, eventually, maybe we could write to the book in the end from things the dagger teaches us.

I doubt nay of this would make it in, but nonetheless it would be so amazing.

This could work with the achievement/weapon model based on learning your artifact's history. The more power/time = more of the book translated until we write our own chapter.

[Kretan]

If the old gods are meant to infect and spread the void to new titans, what if the dagger was meant to infect and spread the void to the heroes =O

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It's quite easy, on dummies, where you don't have anything to focus on but trying to do the perfect rotation. In raid environments it's quite different (depending on the encounter as well, of course) and as I also said, council fights with 3 targets aren't the problem. And yes, haste does make it easier, certainly, but how many people can play optimally with as much haste as we'll be getting? Not a lot is the likely answer.

I also completely disagree with having the puzzle box as our offhand... it's already in the game as an item with its own set of quotes, and it doesn't have any established lore that has to do with shadow. The Secrets of the Void book, however, is very relevant to shadow priest lore, even before we had a defined background because it was written by Natalie Seline. Her teachings inspired the founding of the Cult of Forgotten Shadows.

Also keep in mind that Xal'atath used to be Natalie's dagger, so the combination of the dagger plus the book she wrote makes a lot of sense.

I agree good point on the Haste. I personally enjoy the high skill cap, but I get it if people want that lowered for reasons even beyond skill (namely connection speed). I think Haste is going to be a major factor in the play style and speed of shadow.

Also I like the dagger book combination.

[Ilir]

yup the dot refresh with voidbolt in a situation where you have more than 3 adds will be hectic if you don't manage it properly with addons/macro whatever.
Because you have to remember which one you dotted up first, 2nd and third otherwise it can end up with one of the dots falling off.

@KrakHed yeah it knows the Naarus, we use the dagger to "cleanse" a void god and turn it into its original form (a Naaru).

[Kretan]

I think an add on will be made to bring up a mouse overable frame for every target with one of your dots. I feel like there is no way this isn't going to happen tbh. Heck it needs to happen.

[Ilir]

Also, because of the voidbolt travel time + auspicious spirit... I tend to stay in melee range a lot. It's not always a good idea tho... because of mechanics but it makes our life so much easier because sometimes you're 4 insanity away from your last voidbolt or a second cast of void torrent etc.

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Oh and Shadow destroys worlds when bloodlust/heroism is up ... lol it's quite funny.

[Kretan]

Also, because of the voidbolt travel time + auspicious spirit... I tend to stay in melee range a lot. It's not always a good idea tho... because of mechanics but it makes our life so much easier because sometimes you're 4 insanity away from your last voidbolt or a second cast of void torrent etc.

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Oh and Shadow destroys worlds when bloodlust/heroism is up ... lol it's quite funny.

I really need to try out surrender to Madness + bloodlust haha

Being in melee range for void bolt refresh is like old fire mage where being in melee range would help your rotation for managing hot streak because it wouldn't register until impact..... The closer you were the more responsive it was. It wasn't a good design.... I'd like to get rid of it with shadow too.

[Zungate]

I think an add on will be made to bring up a mouse overable frame for every target with one of your dots. I feel like there is no way this isn't going to happen tbh. Heck it needs to happen.

As far as I know, it's not possible. Creating unitframes in combat is a protected function.

[Gnarilex]

That definitely makes it sound more interesting to me - but it's still visually a book that we're holding, like we've been doing for 10 years with assorted books. I think I just got excited about the idea of holding a puzzle box - with moar old gods in it

In my mind I'm turning Spriests into Old God collecting Pokemon now, we steal their bits and catch them in puzzle boxes

I wish it hovered above us instead. Ever since I caught the Lofty Libram outside the Dalaran Crater I've always had it out with the shadowy friends glyph and pretended it was her book. With how significant that book is to the spec I don't understand why they decided to make a newly established dagger the focus of the spec instead of the book we're based off of. But oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I just hope they'll eventually create a skin that isn't covered in Old God parts and more void related.

[Naga Coatl]

An off topic question since we're talking about off hands - has the male BE's off-hand position been fixed? On live, it twists everything towards his legs, and almost every non-stick off hand clips horribly. :\