[Legion] Discipline Priest Discussion

[Deleted]

If only we could keep evangelism+archangel. Rework it. Long cd + more stacks (or increments) to build up evangelism. Hitting archangel at max stacks could refresh whatever atonement buffs are up for an extra 5 seconds, and be further refreshed an additional 5 seconds, with HW:R/Div Star/Halo within 10 sec. (Only refreshing what buffed targets are directly hit with those spells). So there's a bit of synergy between the plea and smite spam, atonement, and some of the other spells/talents, as well as positioning. And also in preparing which targets have atonement on them before you hit archangel. Single stacks of evangelism could be spent refreshing single atonement buffs, while the max stack triggers the cooldown. So there's a choice - you could keep building and spending single stacks throughout a fight - or use it on multiple targets at an opportune moment and not be able to use any again until off cooldown.

It's a synergy disc players are familiar with, and fits the new damage to heal model.

http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=197862/archangel

Already a pvp talent mate, tho would be nice if they were to shift it across to the pve table, they need to rework the pvp talents anyways as one(twisted faith)used mind blast for synergy, which is now gone.

[PosPosPos]

As fun as that sounds mate, i think it would be far too complex for a lot of healers(i'm talking the generic masses here), who basically have grid fixation and struggle with noticing they are standing in fire.

Also ramp up mechanics in pvp for healers is like sticking a train me flag on their heads, which disc is looking already like its going to be a major problem.

Cool idea tho!!

I mean they want to make disc a high skill cap healer, but currently it's really simple on the PTR.

[Symmone]

I like that idea Pos and I think you should post it in the official wow forums for Legion marked as "Feedback". Id be happy to see ANY sort of synergistic gameplay introduced into disc instead of the flat healing we are seeing right now.

[Deleted]

I like that idea Pos and I think you should post it in the official wow forums for Legion marked as "Feedback". Id be happy to see ANY sort of synergistic gameplay introduced into disc instead of the flat healing we are seeing right now.

Wait what? Flat healing? Isn't the whole spec a symbiosis of offense end defense and the right amount of atonement and so on?

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Halo could be very good if it applied 3s of atonement, allowing a penance>Solace mini burst.

Would probably be too powerful tho, if you landed halo on a tight group of 20, thats 22000% sp healing in 2 gcds(assuming you take castigation).

Like drivec said, because of how atonement works we cant really have stuff like AA without it getting out of control.

Barrier is a decent CD with the talents(prolly up for the nerf bat tho!!!)

If Halo/DS would apply 3s of atonement (even 2 would be to much), you could basically Revival on halo/ds cooldown. And i'm talking live-revival, not legion revival. did the math a few pages back. check it

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In this thread is HUGE underestimation of Penances power. 400*(1*mastery) spellpower on as many atonent targets as you have (8-10) is a huge burst heal on only a 9s CD. I also don't think Disc priest requires great AE capacities. The class never had it, as Paladin never had it. That has never been an issue before and wont be in the future. We already see big gains in our AE capacity compared to WoD. Not every healing class needs to bring the right tools for every possible situation. That would be quite boring. We would also see a 4x disc meta. Because DPS matters. We need no Tranq or Revival or HTT. Our PW:B already outperforms all those on the current build. Even without the 100% heal trait.

What we can do is to talk about how the spec could be more interesting. It is true, right now it Is PW:S on CD > PtW every 20s > Penance on CD, fill up with Plea/Smite. Could be cooler. Especiallly because spamming plea feels exactly like spamming PW:S.

What defenitly is not an isse: HPS, Burst capacity, the ability to heal multiple targets. That works fine and might require a nerf.

[Symmone]

Wait what? Flat healing? Isn't the whole spec a symbiosis of offense end defense and the right amount of atonement and so on?

I wouldnt call it a symbiosis but more an on/off healing strategy...maybe thats even a bad way to talk about it lol.

I mean all we do is apply atonement and dps...thats disc in a nutshell. We have a few additional spells we use like Halo etc but they dont add any synergy or any additional layers of gameplay. (And Im just speaking in terms of pure spec and not including artifact abilities)

[Totaltotemic]

A lot of people's issues with the current build of Disc feeling very same-y is that PWR is too bad to use in any situation. Having the main spammable AoE healing tool of the spec be utterly useless removes a great deal of the choices involved in any healing spec. All of your choices regarding mana management, cooldown usage, and evaluating how much healing is actually required all disappear when that choice goes away.

If they just fix PWR it will feel a lot better to play.

[Deleted]

If they just fix PWR it will feel a lot better to play.

They should put it back to 5 targets but make the mana cost huge so you only cast it when you really really have to??

Dunno if that will work tho since disc doesn't seem to have mana issues?

Maybe 2 charges on 45s recharge to prevent spammage, but make it intelligent so its available for when you need it?

Just throwing some ideas out, its late so apologies if this has been covered.

[PosPosPos]

A lot of people's issues with the current build of Disc feeling very same-y is that PWR is too bad to use in any situation. Having the main spammable AoE healing tool of the spec be utterly useless removes a great deal of the choices involved in any healing spec. All of your choices regarding mana management, cooldown usage, and evaluating how much healing is actually required all disappear when that choice goes away.

If they just fix PWR it will feel a lot better to play.

I think they should just remove PWR.

I would like to see disc have the least control over AoE damage if they don't set up properly for it, and it's not like there aren't other avenues to add choice and meaningful complexity to.

[Floopa]

1 major worry i would have currently as a disc priest is their viability in 5 mans, especially challenge modes and the CM affixes.

1) mobs immune to damage sometimes
2) mobs take less damage

these 2 affixes really screw with a disc's healing, not to mention some bosses go immune to damage or become untargetable for a duration (which still requires healing). there is an argument to be made that this is absolutely fine because you can switch to holy... but artifact weapons, artifact traits, power and everything that comes from that mode of playing really makes disc suffer more than any healer currently.

at least that's my opinion.

[Deleted]

1 major worry i would have currently as a disc priest is their viability in 5 mans, especially challenge modes and the CM affixes.

1) mobs immune to damage sometimes
2) mobs take less damage

these 2 affixes really screw with a disc's healing, not to mention some bosses go immune to damage or become untargetable for a duration (which still requires healing). there is an argument to be made that this is absolutely fine because you can switch to holy... but artifact weapons, artifact traits, power and everything that comes from that mode of playing really makes disc suffer more than any healer currently.

at least that's my opinion.

No, they don't screw with discs healing at all. Because the healing and dps portion are seperately calculated. When you dps on God-King Skovald who is immune under the Aegis of Aggramar, you do as much healing as when dealing full dps. Same for mobs taking less damage. So untargetable is the only issue.

It's the same as the other way around, when mobs are taking more damage, you won't heal more.

Are you trolling again? Because I thought you would read this thread and would have figured before.

[Isheria]

Your atonement healing is not modified by any damage increase or decrease present on the boss/mob you're attacking. Skorpyron has 25% dmg taken decrease straight on pull yet disc priests were doing 300k+ raw hps on that boss during testing. You're only affected if the boss is fully immune like cordana on vault of the wardens.

[Floopa]

ahh okay.

decent design at least !

[Genzen Han]

To combat the 'no enemies available' problem, we could maybe have a 'stance' or some kind of toggled ability that removes and prevents Atonement from being applied whilst it's active, but gives some kind of power increase to direct heals (maybe remove some of the 'healing absorb' effect from shadowmend, allow Penance to be cast defensively regardless of talents, and/or improve PWR in some way).

We'd obviously need to apply some kind of penalty to it - it shouldn't be a viable way of playing under normal circumstances, but rather be something we can 'switch to' when we have nothing to dps. We could maybe have the toggled ability increase the mana cost of spells by 100%, or cause a stacking debuff to apply that increases mana cost of spells by x% every y seconds or something like that.

I know we have certain talents that help us with non atonement heals, but in CMs and such, switching talents between pulls doesn't work, and on certain raid fights, there might be times where you can't use atonement healing but you can't/don't really want to drop the better talents in favor of the non-atonement healing talents because you need the increased throughput.

I don't know - maybe PWS and Shadowmend, with Halo/DS every so often, will be enough to get through those phases/fights.

[Floopa]

To combat the 'no enemies available' problem, we could maybe have a 'stance' or some kind of toggled ability that removes and prevents Atonement from being applied whilst it's active, but gives some kind of power increase to direct heals (maybe remove some of the 'healing absorb' effect from shadowmend, allow Penance to be cast defensively regardless of talents, and/or improve PWR in some way).

this wont happen because the monk riot would be insane

[Deleted]

To combat the 'no enemies available' problem, we could maybe have a 'stance' or some kind of toggled ability that removes and prevents Atonement from being applied whilst it's active, but gives some kind of power increase to direct heals (maybe remove some of the 'healing absorb' effect from shadowmend, allow Penance to be cast defensively regardless of talents, and/or improve PWR in some way).

We'd obviously need to apply some kind of penalty to it - it shouldn't be a viable way of playing under normal circumstances, but rather be something we can 'switch to' when we have nothing to dps. We could maybe have the toggled ability increase the mana cost of spells by 100%, or cause a stacking debuff to apply that increases mana cost of spells by x% every y seconds or something like that.

I know we have certain talents that help us with non atonement heals, but in CMs and such, switching talents between pulls doesn't work, and on certain raid fights, there might be times where you can't use atonement healing but you can't/don't really want to drop the better talents in favor of the non-atonement healing talents because you need the increased throughput.

I don't know - maybe PWS and Shadowmend, with Halo/DS every so often, will be enough to get through those phases/fights.

This is not an issue, as described in the thread before and by blues, atonement will not be affected by raid boss mechanics in anyway. Meaning if the boss takes extra damage, your healing will still be the same, if the boss takes reduced damage your healing will be the same. If the boss is immune, your healing will still be the same.

Atonement is a flat value calculated from the damage that lands, irrespective of mechanics this is easy to calculate because damage acutally always happens, its is whether that it hits that then the numbers are calculated. Therefore there is fuck all to worry about, with regards to boss mechanics that allow no "dps" since it will still register on the combat log as immune, but produce the same healing output for disc as the combat logs works or hits(probably) not resistance.

[Totaltotemic]

I'm trying to remember the last time meaningful damage was occurring when there was literally nothing you could DPS.

Nothing in HFC comes to mind (although Iron Reaver air phase could get awkward if your DPS wreck all of the bombs near you).

I can't think of anything in BRF.

Not in Highmaul...

I think you have to go back to SoO and ToT to find examples of this being an actual problem, and even then it wasn't a very common thing. I think the concern is pretty unwarranted.

[Saiyoran]

The only thing so far was the last boss in Vault of the Wardens, and I'm pretty sure I couldn't get healing off the immune boss and obviously I couldn't off the untargetable adds. Maybe I was just seeing damage though, no Skada yet because the addon fix doesn't work on OSX and I know nothing about editing hex things.

[CptEgo]

Disc Priest - were a different flavor of Holy, but not good enough. Atonement is now core healing mechanic, now heal by dealing damage to enemies.[*]The new Atonement mechanic is very different than the older ones. It is a mix of using damage and healing abilities to mark allies with a buff as you heal them and then heal those people as you damage enemies with Atonement spells, so you have to weave both together at all times.

Well this is very unfortunate. I was going to return to Disc, but this bullshit is not something I agree with..

[Deleted]

but this bullshit is not something I agree with..

Not trying to be a dick but what made you want to disc in the first place change, this has been announced for a while now.

Pretty much from what i can tell disc is going to be : Keep attonement up(spam plea ect instead of pw: shield), keep sw: pain up, penance on cd, solace/mindb, smite stuff and rage at all the other healers because they instantly healed up your plea targets while the rest of the raid is at 20% due to zero communication. win?

[Yunzi]

Not trying to be a dick but what made you want to disc in the first place change, this has been announced for a while now.

Pretty much from what i can tell disc is going to be : Keep attonement up(spam plea ect instead of pw: shield), keep sw: pain up, penance on cd, solace/mindb, smite stuff and rage at all the other healers because they instantly healed up your plea targets while the rest of the raid is at 20% due to zero communication. win?

You've forgotten Power Word: Shield. A typical 18 second duration of a fight at 10% haste, assuming no casting inefficiencies, will contain 3 PWSes (2 on tanks) at 4.05 seconds of casting, two penances at 3.06 seconds with Borrowed Time, one Shadow Word: Pain at 1.35 seconds, a 30% chance of Mindbender at 0.405 seconds, and a 20% chance of Light's Wrath at 0.27 seconds, with Pain Suppression, Power Word: Barrier, Rapture, dispels, Leap of Faith, and utility spells difficult to estimate. Just the recommended key spells I listed will take up 9.135 of the 18 second window, with the rest of the window typically taken up by Plea, Shadow Mend, Smite, and Shadow Covenant, along with sometimes multiple SWPs. Since all of those spells except for Shadow Covenant have the same cast time or GCD, we can calculate that we have time for at least 6 combinations of Plea/SM/Smite. Assuming an equal balance of Smite with atonement applications, that gives us our "average" of 6 atonement buffs maintained during our standard rotation (assuming Contrition) - 3 from PWS and 3 from Plea and/or SM, giving us time for 3 Smites every 18 seconds to join in damage and atonement the 2 Penances, 1 Shadow Word: Pain, and chance of Mindbender and/or Light's Wrath.

Some disc priests on the alpha right now may well be spamming Plea, but the rotation (at 10% haste) should only contain an absolute maximum of six Pleas every 18 seconds, and that's only if you want to maintain 9 atonement buffs instead of 6 at the expense of the loss of 3 Smites, with 3 Pleas/SMs every 18 seconds being "normal".