[Legion] Holy Priest Discussion

[PosPosPos]

A large part of its value will depend not on how much healing was done but on mana restraints.

If your healers are not running out of mana at crucial stages then the cd basically does nothing. If it prevent healers from going OOM it can have great value.
Its a hard talent to grade in a vacuum but I doubt mana will be balanced that tight, because it would make 1-2 Holy priests near mandatory.

I certainly would not say the heals cast during it can be credited to the priest because those heals would most likely have been cast anyway to prevent deaths.

Here's a hint: you SoH when there's a disproportionate number of players in need of expensive interventions. So yes, the credit still goes to the priest.

The only reason nobody has mana issues on raid testing is Phylactery scaling up. Take that away and any sane individual can see that it's all going to go downhill.

[Gorsameth]

Here's a hint: you SoH when there's a disproportionate number of players in need of expensive interventions. So yes, the credit still goes to the priest. *

The only reason nobody has mana issues on raid testing is Phylactery scaling up. Take that away and any sane individual can see that it's all going to go downhill.

*Assuming they did not have mana to heal it otherwise

And I havnt looked to much at mana levels in raid logs, mostly from not having done testing myself. My point (as I said) was that either the mana is relevant enough to make the talent great, in which case Holy Priests become mandatory. Or people are not going oom and then the talents value becomes much more limited and niche.

The forums will be on fire if mana is impossible without 1-2 Holy priests and changes will swiftly follow.

[PosPosPos]

*Assuming they did not have mana to heal it otherwise

And I am saying it's a red herring, because outside of SoH or other mana supports, nobody will risk burning half their mana bar in 10 seconds to do emergency heals. Or they can, and run out of mana anyway.

SoH is just another throughput cooldown, except it enables everyone to do the healing instead of just the casting priest. If you value Tranquility, Revival, HTT and Divine Hymn, then you would appreciate what SoH does for the raid.

And I havnt looked to much at mana levels in raid logs, mostly from not having done testing myself. My point (as I said) was that either the mana is relevant enough to make the talent great, in which case Holy Priests become mandatory. Or people are not going oom and then the talents value becomes much more limited and niche.

Well, good for you, then you should stop while you are miles behind making insinuations of how holy priest and other healers are like without having any actual experience.

The forums will be on fire if mana is impossible without 1-2 Holy priests and changes will swiftly follow.

Yeah, since you are apparently only capable of arguing singular and polar extremes, instead of spectrums, mana costs must somehow be either completely trivial or batshit impossible to manage.

[worcester]

You can't credit all the healing done to the priest. Sure the priest is providing all the mana for free, but time spend casting is a thing and the priest is not paying for that. It's the same reason why Heal or Flash Heal heals for the same amount but have different cast times. You cannot just ignore the opportunity cost of spending all the time casting which could have been used to do whatever other things. Infinite mana is not equal to infinite throughput because of cast time to convert said mana into healing.

If the opportunity cost of casting time is low: i.e. mana is a scarce factor and healers are missing gcd to preserve it, then SOH is contributing a greater part of actual output during the time its up. If opportunity cost of cast time is high: i.e. every healer is going full throttle anyway because its the last phase or the encounter is designed as such then SoH didn't do much.

We hope that the former is the case 90%+ of the time (as it should be and as was promised), in which case SoH can be treated as an pseudo-tranq. That does not mean the latter case can't exist or even the varying degrees of circumstances of mana saving vs time cost.

A final thing to consider is efficiency w.r.t mana dumping: priests, paladins and shamans are excellent at burning mana into healing, while druids and monks efficient healing is tied to cooldown related spells (wildgrowth, efflo, renewing mist, vivify) and as such dumping mana for them is just spamming their regrowth equivalent while casting their cd spells regardless of mana savings.

SoH is good, but it's really limiting in the way it gives "free mana" and I doubt it will be a make or break spell (note that many other healers can already opt for an additional cd related talent)

[Deleted]

Well, that's better. I dunno why I decided that it was a channel, but anyway the second part of my previous post still looks legit. You can hardly bring a huge healing throughput within these 10 seconds

Prayer of healing does quite alot of healing and requires a fair amount of healing.

[xdmemes]

Well, that's better. I dunno why I decided that it was a channel, but anyway the second part of my previous post still looks legit. You can hardly bring a huge healing throughput within these 10 seconds

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

[fallenangel-succ]

You can't really go through 50% of your mana pool in 10s, no matter what you do. Mana costs are simply not that high, and for good reason.
An optimistic case is savings of about 200K per healer. Assuming a 5 min effective CD (one usage in a 5 min fight, for instance, or twice in a 10 minute one), this ends up being 3333 mp/5 per healer. Which is nice, but not game changing. And that is assuming pretty optimal usage of the CD. A lot of specs won't be able to utilize is properly, in the sense that they have efficient spells that are worth casting in that window - HS / LoD for pallies, PW:S / penance for Disc, HST and maybe Riptide for shamans.

[Deleted]

There is defenetly possible to blow through 50% of your mana on some speccs. Mistweaver can plow throught their mana like crazy if they want to.

[fallenangel-succ]

Show a rotation that does it. I'm not familiar with MW monks, but the rest can't do it.

[Pearl1717]

A large part of its value will depend not on how much healing was done but on mana restraints.

If your healers are not running out of mana at crucial stages then the cd basically does nothing. If it prevent healers from going OOM it can have great value.
Its a hard talent to grade in a vacuum but I doubt mana will be balanced that tight, because it would make 1-2 Holy priests near mandatory.

What? Any mana saved at anytime is beneficial to the raid. If healers are going to be spamming their highest throughput spell at any time in the encounter, saving mana then allows them to use that mana at a later time in the raid. It doesnt need to be used at a crucial stage when theyre running out of mana.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

Show a rotation that does it. I'm not familiar with MW monks, but the rest can't do it.

Refreshing Jade Wind into Essence Font is what they're referring to.

[Deleted]

With the scaling up on raid testing, reached 50% haste there. Just casting vivify with that cast time is 45% mana just durring that 10 sec period.

[fallenangel-succ]

That's about as relevant to 110 balance as raidtesting with Phylactery. In a world with no mana, haste is a risky stat for most healers.

[Deleted]

Diffrent classes scales good with diffrent stats, mistweavers haste is never bad no matter how much you get.

Anyway its not talking about 110 balance just that its very much possible to 50% mana in 10 seconds on some healers.

[Ephur]

Is anyone savvy enough in creating Weak Auras to know whether or not tracking "Trail of Light" will be possible? Sure, not all that hard to remember, and micro-managing it to the umpteenth degree might be a bit silly...but...still.

I looked at this a lot a couple months ago on beta and I can not identify any state difference on who will receive healing from trail of light. This information obviously exists but I couldn't figure out how to get to it. I'm still very curious about this and asked on official beta forums for a trackable buff/aura so I can plainly see who will get healed. I think this is important to maximize this talent choice.

[Djriff]

It would probably be something that parses the combat log looking for your Flash of Light healed X player, then a WA will pop up with their name. Is that what you're looking for?

[Ephur]

What I'm looking for is some way to indicate which raider will be healed by trail of light. Ideally this would be in my raid frames and tracked the same way you would, say renew or something. Failing that, it would be nice to know which raider will receive heals from trail of light. It's easy to mentally keep tabs on in a 5 man, or in a flash heavy rotation, but easy to lose if you're filling with a lot of something else at the time.

[Deleted]

Is trail of light fixed yet then?

[decnalabnu]

The only reason nobody has mana issues on raid testing is Phylactery scaling up. Take that away and any sane individual can see that it's all going to go downhill.

Is phylactery scaling above what this trinket is going to give us? http://legion.wowhead.com/item=12871...-deck-promises

[xdmemes]

Is trail of light fixed yet then?

It was working correctly for a bit on Tich testing yesterday, but bugged out again on Elisandre, so no.