[DISCUSSION] So what do you guys think of the Monk changes?

[cqwrteur]

so only the new RM is a "new mechanic" while we lost our most interesting mechanic (the combination of RM and Uplift)

The combination of ReM and Uplift is not interesting at all. The only interesting thing is the old TFT or the extend life.

[Deleted]

The combination of ReM and Uplift is not interesting at all. The only interesting thing is the old TFT or the extend life.

I think it was THE combination that made monks stand out from the rest. It took some brains and fight knowledge to be able to properly use it.
Now with all the "new" abilities, they really do feel like a combination of the other healers. Quite a shame if you ask me.

Im not really sad to see fistweaving go, it didnt work out anyway.

[vulena]

I think it was THE combination that made monks stand out from the rest. It took some brains and fight knowledge to be able to properly use it.
Now with all the "new" abilities, they really do feel like a combination of the other healers. Quite a shame if you ask me.

Im not really sad to see fistweaving go, it didnt work out anyway.

Cast twice a few seconds before damage on different targets, spam Uplift until out of Chi.

...is not my definition of brains, especially when the basis of both heals is a somewhat random selection you have no control over.

[Hottie4Hire]

Fully agree there. No extra thought was required. It was just different because it wasn't reactionary. You had to know what was coming in advance and plan for it, while other healers simply react, but it functionally had the same effect except sometimes our heals weren't needed. Bad design which pulled me away from healing for years. Very excited for the new MW.

[dippinsawse]

I've played them all in WoD in raid environments except for Disc and RDruid. MW is the only healer I've PvP'd with since MoP launch though.

You're right in that all other healers experience this lack of depth. This is something Blizz tried to fix by making mana important again. Their approach sucked because half the fights in Highmaul had mechanics which invalidated mana management or didn't last longer than 4 minutes. Once healers got their hands on BRF trinkets their mana didn't matter outside of 2 encoutners, and as we are seeing now mana is a joke for all healers in HFC on every fight.

The only difference is that other healers can spot heal and choose the best spell for a situation, even if that choice is only 1 of 2. MW'ers at the moment cannot do either. We build Chi and spend Chi in the same way on every encounter in HFC. Even our 4pce isn't really something we get to make a choice with to use optimally. Extend Life either goes on a raid debuff like Xhul/Zakuun/Tyrant etc or on the tanks.

Bottom line is I'm interested to see what Blizz does with healers in general to make playing one more interesting and less one-dimensional. While I'm waiting to see how this pans out I'm excited to see MW get a proper toolkit that isn't gated behind Chi generation or a 4-set.




We won't know until we see talents and experience gameplay in beta. Hopefully some remnants remain of the hallmarks that many feel have come to define Mistweavers at the moment like casting surging while soothing... and other stuff too? Vivify is almost a smaller scale Uplift and we don't know what other spells have been cut or kept yet.

That's true but again, that's what I mean. MW just needed like one or two new tools to fill those gaps in those situations. They didn't need to have their core mechanics replaced with more generic stuff in order to make them easier to tune compared to other healers. The only interesting mechanics they have now essentially ask that you NOT play the game in order to use them. It's silly. Soothing Mist is just a HoT that silences you which you proc from casting a weak heal. Other than that their mechanics are so sterile and homogenized that there is basically no reason for the spec to exist in the first place--you could just play another class and nothing really will have been lost.

I just think you have too much faith in blizzard. They aren't making changes to fix things or make the game more interesting, they are dumbing it down to make it take less work to balance.

[Spotnick]

That's true but again, that's what I mean. MW just needed like one or two new tools to fill those gaps in those situations. They didn't need to have their core mechanics replaced with more generic stuff in order to make them easier to tune compared to other healers.

I disagree. It's not normal that you don't use the same spells in 5 man than in 20 man instances, that was a problem with monks since day one. Plus since they removed Healing Spheres, our single target healing was relying on a channel you need to set up prior to actually do any healing, which was a bad mechanic.

Uplift was just not useful at all in any other content than raids.

The new toolkit will fix that. Important thing is that we give them our feedback once it's available on beta, that's how we got pool of mist last beta (instead of the path of mist crap)

Don't forget we have not seen the talents yet and/or artefact talents.

[Deleted]

Honestly I loved all the monk changes except the change to soothing mist. I think a targeted channel was amazingly cool, it was so unique and iconic. You could channel then spam surging mist and enveloping mist for massive single target healing. Don't know why it needed to be changed. AOE needed a bit of a fix in 5 mans but not single target, that was always okay imo.

[Spotnick]

Honestly I loved all the monk changes except the change to soothing mist. I think a targeted channel was amazingly cool, it was so unique and iconic. You could channel then spam surging mist and enveloping mist for massive single target healing. Don't know why it needed to be changed. AOE needed a bit of a fix in 5 mans but not single target, that was always okay imo.

It's not different at all, except you start with the other spell first then the channel starts.

I really don't get why people see any difference, you can 1 spell instead of 2, quality of life change.

We have no information yet if there are any spells that will be instant while channeling though.

[Deleted]

How could you fix FW? Which following option is possible?
1. low dps, low hps
2. low dps, high hps
3. high dps, low hps
4. high dps, high hps

Answering your question,even though,i dont like it:medium dps,medium hps and what does that mean? if your average dps is X and your average hps is Y then FW does X+Y/2.
Why I dont like your question? Because FW wasnt supposed to be something we'll do 100% of the boss. It was for the opening,it was for the re-positioning,it was for some dead time.It was an option,for the good player to be the best player. It was unique,probably the reason most of the monks picked their new,then,class. The worst part is this...that we are here divided so hard!

[Deleted]

It was unique,probably the reason most of the monks picked their new,then,class.

The only unique part is it doing notable damage, instead of very low for other healer.

Being considered a melee was more notable, but not that interesting in the end.

[Solemnity]

Answering your question,even though,i dont like it:medium dps,medium hps and what does that mean? if your average dps is X and your average hps is Y then FW does X+Y/2.
Why I dont like your question? Because FW wasnt supposed to be something we'll do 100% of the boss. It was for the opening,it was for the re-positioning,it was for some dead time.It was an option,for the good player to be the best player. It was unique,probably the reason most of the monks picked their new,then,class. The worst part is this...that we are here divided so hard!

Fistweaving is the X value in your equation so it doesn't even make sense. Fistweaving does 50% of the healing around your body, then another 50% around your totem, so the only balancing to be had is the damage of the abilities. The reason it's not possible to make it "medium" dps or "medium" healing, 50/50, is you can get 50% of the damage perfect, but you're going to be doing a lot more than 50% of your normal healing because of the smart healing. You're playing with imaginary variables.

The only unique part is it doing notable damage, instead of very low for other healer.

Being considered a melee was more notable, but not that interesting in the end.

Functionally a Priest is more likely to do more damage than a Mistweaver on average. I truly think the melee component of Mistweavers can be salvaged, considering we're still carrying around body-centric positional healing. I don't see the point in keeping the current damage toolkit within the spec without us being able to use it on bosses. Crackling Jade Lightning, like really? Why not give 1-3 new crane-esque abilities for ranged damage. Even the new talent, Mistwalk is going to be incredibly clunky if we're going to be bound to the more stationary ranged mechanics.

[Deleted]

all im saying is that FW was an option. the more options,the better (as long as its not overwhelming you). nobody forced you to play crane stance in a raid! nobody called you noob for being 100% in serpent stance. but you could heal a 5man only by FWing,had some uses in pvp,had some uses in some fights. I dont see the problem for it to stay,thats all im saying. Keep the freekin stance,whats your problem blizz? Respect your costumers!

And the question about the lows and the highs is not a correct question. in a perfect world,in a patchwerk fight,were all dps classes would be around 1% from each other,a 100% FW monk should have 50% of their dps and 50% of the healers hps. but this will never happen. especially until blizzard realises that when a spec is good,nerfing ALL its dmg by 15% is NOT the correct fix.

[cqwrteur]

And the question about the lows and the highs is not a correct question. in a perfect world,in a patchwerk fight,were all dps classes would be around 1% from each other,a 100% FW monk should have 50% of their dps and 50% of the healers hps. but this will never happen. especially until blizzard realises that when a spec is good,nerfing ALL its dmg by 15% is NOT the correct fix.

Why do you want 50% dps and 50% hps? Don't forget we live in a world where mw and fw always have different stat weights, talents and glyphs. The fact is you need lose most of your serpent hps to do the sucks 50% dps. And if a raid really needs more dps, why not reducing a healer to take a real dps? I don't see any reason a raid really needs FW compared to a HPal or a RShaman. FW is always underpowered as a utility.

You think fw should have low dps(compared to real dps, mid=low), low hps(compared to real healer, mid=low), but "low dps/low hps" will always become the "mana management tool". You could still regenerate mana in fw and swap to mw doing burst heal. We have seen it causes balance issue in Highmaul and BRF. That's why they decide to remove fw in Legion.

[Supliftz]

People really need to stop using the argument of "why would you want to do 50/50 when you can just drop a healer and grab a dps" for fistweaving.

This argument doesn't work in reality. Just look at archi or manno and you don't have a relevant argument.

[Oranguto]

Are they not doing anything to Crackling Jade Lightning at all?

I would honestly call it the worst ability in the game for how stupidly inefficient it is and what it accomplishes.

[Deleted]

Are they not doing anything to Crackling Jade Lightning at all?

I would honestly call it the worst ability in the game for how stupidly inefficient it is and what it accomplishes.

Totally agreed.

However I do like the fact that SCK is a chi spender now if it hits much harder, I always thought the attack did way to low damage.

[Deleted]

SCK was really just a way to filler out the cooldowns and get some chi on the side while you're Storm, Earth and Fire AoEing packs of mobs down. I do like the idea that it's becoming a more prominent part of a monk's priority list.

[Deleted]

People really need to stop using the argument of "why would you want to do 50/50 when you can just drop a healer and grab a dps" for fistweaving.

This argument doesn't work in reality. Just look at archi or manno and you don't have a relevant argument.

Except that argument does work perfectly in reality actually. The argument is true for literally 99% of bosses in WoW.

[Karmak]

Are they not doing anything to Crackling Jade Lightning at all?

I would honestly call it the worst ability in the game for how stupidly inefficient it is and what it accomplishes.

"We're adding more engaging damage-dealing rotations for all healers in Legion."
https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...91889047842817

Whether that's for solo pve or raiding, that's all we know right now.

[HHHGame78]

Looks like Chi Explosion is gone. Front page for details.