Tigerye brew completely changed

[Platinengel]

I think you missunderstood me. I was NOT saying that Monks as a class get nerfed. I talked about one particular Spell. And higher cooldown with the same or even lower Burst (I'm pretty sure they won't make it higher than 60%) is a change to the worse. To compensate it, they'd need to give TEB ruffly 120%+DMG/Heal or 30 Sec. Duration.

I know, there are no numbers yet, but we can look back at 11 years of game-development within WoW so we can guess what might come. Fact is, they take complexity and decisionmaking in first place. That should never be a good thing in a game.

[Therris]

It's neither a buff nor a nerf number wise, you don't know how it is tuned atm (and it will prolly change alot during beta and ptrs), but it definately doesn't give you more flexibility compared to current live TEB and if you were using it 'randomly throughout the fight' you were doing it wrong.

It gives you more with the new talent that we know about ( the one talent, there are 2 others that will play with our mastery)
Combo Hits and Combo Strikes mixed with the TeB CD will make for some amazing burst damage allegedly (the way it sounds to me atleast) and Combo Strikes/hits will make for some great sustained damage I think...unless I'm understanding our mastery wrong

TeB was boring and dull, it as a CD a basic CD is still boring and dull but with the new mastery I can actually have more play of my character

[Notter]

I think you missunderstood me. I was NOT saying that Monks as a class get nerfed. I talked about one particular Spell. And higher cooldown with the same or even lower Burst (I'm pretty sure they won't make it higher than 60%) is a change to the worse. To compensate it, they'd need to give TEB ruffly 120%+DMG/Heal or 30 Sec. Duration..

You can't look at abilities in a vacuum.
they are part of a whole kit.

by your logic, if monks had a passive ability, that gives 60% more dps, all the time. but TeB got changed so it's a 1.5 min cooldown. then it's a nerf.
and you would ask "how can you be happy about this nerf?!"

try to look at the bigger picture.
or better yet, try and calm down, and wait for the talents to be revealed.

[Deleted]

It gives you more with the new talent that we know about ( the one talent, there are 2 others that will play with our mastery)
Combo Hits and Combo Strikes mixed with the TeB CD will make for some amazing burst damage allegedly (the way it sounds to me atleast) and Combo Strikes/hits will make for some great sustained damage I think...unless I'm understanding our mastery wrong

It gives us more of what? flexibility? no, dmg? you cannot know that atm and it's way too early for any damage numbers to matter since it will change milion times during beta.
Also ,no spec ever had great burst combined with great sustained dmg (atleast in long run, let's not talk about blizzard balancing failures followed by instant nerfs) its just against logic in designing for any game and if you think ww will be magically burst heavy now with having 1,5 min cd and core dmg abilities tied to CDs(FoF/RSK/HS) you are fairly delusional.

TeB was boring and dull, it as a CD a basic CD is still boring and dull but with the new mastery I can actually have more play of my character

I don't know what kind of CD would be 'exciting and fun' for you if current TEB is 'boring and dull'. Apart from having near full bis for CHiX (100% uptime) in T18 (so long after progress, and even there you still need to consider TEB for clones) you can manage your TEB stacks to fit wide spectrum of small/big dps pushes in different encounters. It gives you a flexiblity and CHOICES to make in fights (i.e. progressing Archi Mythic you can have TEB and chi/energy ready for every doomfire and still get it's uptime on deathcallers cleave, you make a choice knowing how fast you can recharge your TEB back(or even if other raid members have their cds ready for that specific doomfire) if you should use TEB on add or save it).

IDK personally how CD button, especially on 1,5 min timer, that you either use on it's cooldown or hold on it for specific push (lets say push happens at 2:30 then you need to sit on it for 1 min) can be more fun to use.

[lalo979]

i would love to see a TeB like this.

you gain a stack of TeB every 4 sec whether you are in combat or not (adjustable to 4, 4.5, 5, etc you get the point) to max of 20 as always, activate it to consume 1 to 10 charges to increase damage X% for 10 sec something like 2-3% so we don't hit like a wet noodle without it.

this give us the same flexibility the old TeB give us but it can be adjustable to be balanced during a long fight, its not random and therefore without scaling issues cuz the stacks came at the same rate, it fix initial burst problem we always had have but the rest of the fight would be smooth with little windows of burst at 10/40 sec rate.

PD. sorry if i have grammar issues english isnt my main language.

[Shelly]

i would love to see a TeB like this.

you gain a stack of TeB every 4 sec whether you are in combat or not (adjustable to 4, 4.5, 5, etc you get the point) to max of 20 as always, activate it to consume 1 to 10 charges to increase damage X% for 10 sec something like 2-3% so we don't hit like a wet noodle without it.

this give us the same flexibility the old TeB give us but it can be adjustable to be balanced during a long fight, its not random and therefore without scaling issues cuz the stacks came at the same rate, it fix initial burst problem we always had have but the rest of the fight would be smooth with little windows of burst at 10/40 sec rate.

PD. sorry if i have grammar issues english isnt my main language.

Or they could just tune WW damage to where it's not required and can then simply be a DPS CD or removed all together.

I'm in favor of removing it or just renaming it. A brew just doesn't fit the WW theme anymore, we're not drunken master that's brewmasters. WW are the shaolin monk style. I suggest you watch some really terrible kung fu movies from the 70's and 80's to get a better idea. :-)

[Selah]

I'm totally fine with it being a CD versus Blizz trying to balance around it. Half the reason Monk is so slow in WoD is because of TEB. I'd like to see that mechanic built in somewhere else. Maybe give us TEB in the form of a choice between a defensive bonus or a heal instead of DPS bonus. I'm hoping this means that Monks will play faster now too instead of dragging their feet.

[Notter]

i would love to see a TeB like this.

you gain a stack of TeB every 4 sec whether you are in combat or not (adjustable to 4, 4.5, 5, etc you get the point) to max of 20 as always, activate it to consume 1 to 10 charges to increase damage X% for 10 sec something like 2-3% so we don't hit like a wet noodle without it.

this give us the same flexibility the old TeB give us but it can be adjustable to be balanced during a long fight, its not random and therefore without scaling issues cuz the stacks came at the same rate, it fix initial burst problem we always had have but the rest of the fight would be smooth with little windows of burst at 10/40 sec rate.

what's the point then?
if your class hits "like a wet noodle" without a certain buff, then something is balanced wrong.
we've complained about this literally the whole expansion.

just getting 2-3% damage increase is meaningless.
at that point, just having a cooldown of 1.5 min makes more sense.
having it 4-5 second per stack, and it lasting 10 seconds, means we can use it every 30-40 seconds, which would mean, WW would still be balanced around it.

[lwbrent31]

I actually reckon its good, for all we know the talents might have like 3 talents we can stack with it and give monks insane burst

[Chickat]

For all you know they may have a talent that lets you lower the cd drastically. Say in 15 second increments.

[Therris]

It gives us more of what? flexibility? no, dmg? you cannot know that atm and it's way too early for any damage numbers to matter since it will change milion times during beta.
Also ,no spec ever had great burst combined with great sustained dmg (atleast in long run, let's not talk about blizzard balancing failures followed by instant nerfs) its just against logic in designing for any game and if you think ww will be magically burst heavy now with having 1,5 min cd and core dmg abilities tied to CDs(FoF/RSK/HS) you are fairly delusional.

I'm assuming it gives us more play has how they said it. If we are going to be like a fighting arcade game, these sounds right to me and the way our mastery sounds it sounds like it would be alot more flexiable with lining up the stars for that mouth droooling damage to me. But that's just assuming.

If that's what you think, that's just what it sounds to me with our Mastery increasing our damage of every other attack and Combo Hits increasing out damage by 1% stacking 10 times....that's sustained damage right there. The new tigers eye brew is a burst button?

Also I meant good sustained and good burst. Although I think will have better sustained then anything. I feel like we might be in the retribution paladin boat

--Also every class has sustained damage to say that having good sustained damage and burst is in it self delusional. But will see when beta and live comes.
I don't know what kind of CD would be 'exciting and fun' for you if current TEB is 'boring and dull'. Apart from having near full bis for CHiX (100% uptime) in T18 (so long after progress, and even there you still need to consider TEB for clones) you can manage your TEB stacks to fit wide spectrum of small/big dps pushes in different encounters. It gives you a flexiblity and CHOICES to make in fights (i.e. progressing Archi Mythic you can have TEB and chi/energy ready for every doomfire and still get it's uptime on deathcallers cleave, you make a choice knowing how fast you can recharge your TEB back(or even if other raid members have their cds ready for that specific doomfire) if you should use TEB on add or save it).

IDK personally how CD button, especially on 1,5 min timer, that you either use on it's cooldown or hold on it for specific push (lets say push happens at 2:30 then you need to sit on it for 1 min) can be more fun to use.

TeB being gone and replaced by a new serenity is what I want...lol I don't want ANY brews in the WindWalker spec. But no waiting for something to stack up is boring. Having every tier set revolve around this is boring. Having a mastery revolve around this....is boring....to me

[LoKSET]

Are you serious with this class fantasy bullshit - WW is not about brews - wat?? Ok, let them name it super awesome sauce of powerful punching, would that be ok.
For Blizzard it's always been gameplay > lore - the answer to every question how a pitiful group of humans is able to beat this or that super powerful creature. And now everyone is suddenly about "this doesn't fit my idea of the class". I guess it all started with trying to rationalize giving demo locks Metamorphosis to DHs and then Blizz were like "While we are at it...". Gameplay should always be the first thing to consider, not some shitty fiction.

[SaucyThighs]

I agree OP. TeB and SEF were the two biggest contributors to the depth and skill involved in playing WW. Saving your stacks up and timing it with just the right abilities or fight mechanics was half of what it meant to play the class right, and half the fun for me, at least. Also, it could be said that the flexibility of damage output provided by those abilities, in the hands of a good player, were what made a WW worth bringing to a raid.

That said, it was pretty inaccessible to new players. I just hope there will be talent options to go back to the old way. Why they actually would nerf class depth this hard is beyond me.

[Therris]

Are you serious with this class fantasy bullshit - WW is not about brews - wat?? Ok, let them name it super awesome sauce of powerful punching, would that be ok.
For Blizzard it's always been gameplay > lore - the answer to every question how a pitiful group of humans is able to beat this or that super powerful creature. And now everyone is suddenly about "this doesn't fit my idea of the class". I guess it all started with trying to rationalize giving demo locks Metamorphosis to DHs and then Blizz were like "While we are at it...". Gameplay should always be the first thing to consider, not some shitty fiction.

What on earth are you talking about?

[lalo979]

what's the point then?
if your class hits "like a wet noodle" without a certain buff, then something is balanced wrong.
we've complained about this literally the whole expansion.

just getting 2-3% damage increase is meaningless.
at that point, just having a cooldown of 1.5 min makes more sense.
having it 4-5 second per stack, and it lasting 10 seconds, means we can use it every 30-40 seconds, which would mean, WW would still be balanced around it.

i was meaning 2-3% per stack so 20-30% with a full 10 stacks not 60% like is now, the lesser the damage buff is the more we are going to hit without it. That's the real problem with TeB, 60% is a lot and scaling are giving us more and more uptime because of the mastery, so they need to nerf our overall damage to compensate. The way i put it the uptime will be the same without scaling issues, we aren't going to hit like a little girl without it and still will give us the flexibility to delay it for a specifically phase or add to kill when need it. I like that from the current TeB, i don't like to be constraint it to use every 1.5 min because its a loss of dps delaying it, that was one of the main things i like about WW, the current version has a lot of problems (scaling/damage) but the flexibility that TeB give us wasn't one of them.

[Kaljurei]

I think one of the reasons that they removed TeB as a on-demand CD was because of the new Mastery. It already provides a significant passive damage potential. Also, a 1.5m CD is quite negligible, and may even be quite powerful if the damage buff is significant.

[Nicklas]

i was meaning 2-3% per stack so 20-30% with a full 10 stacks not 60% like is now, the lesser the damage buff is the more we are going to hit without it. That's the real problem with TeB, 60% is a lot and scaling are giving us more and more uptime because of the mastery, so they need to nerf our overall damage to compensate. The way i put it the uptime will be the same without scaling issues, we aren't going to hit like a little girl without it and still will give us the flexibility to delay it for a specifically phase or add to kill when need it. I like that from the current TeB, i don't like to be constraint it to use every 1.5 min because its a loss of dps delaying it, that was one of the main things i like about WW, the current version has a lot of problems (scaling/damage) but the flexibility that TeB give us wasn't one of them.

If TeB left ingame even with 20-30% we would still hit like a wet noodle, maybe a bit less cooked but still. We would be balanced around having it on most of the timee and with only 20 to 30 percent increase it would actually do much, then IMHO it's better to give us an actual CD for such use.

I think one of the reasons that they removed TeB as a on-demand CD was because of the new Mastery. It already provides a significant passive damage potential. Also, a 1.5m CD is quite negligible, and may even be quite powerful if the damage buff is significant.

I dont think it was because of the new mastery that TeB was removed, in fact the new mastery could work wonders with TeB. Our old mastery is likely removed due to it's scaling problems with gear and the rest of the class balanced around a close to 100% TeB uptime.

[Snes]

At least we don't need to miss out on heroism/bloodlust.

[Crovyn]

How can ANYBODY be happy about a NERF? I can't even....

It's a gameplay change. It's only a nerf if they don'T change numbers along with it, and why wouldn't they. I can't understand why some folks always asume that gameplay changes between expansions come with the same numbers we have now.. I can't even...