[Enhancement] Future Legion Resources

[Lorentz]

3 or 4 sec max boost is more important than those 15 sec. You never need 15 sec infight.

You lose uptime because the target is unattackable for some reason or you need to run out because of fight mechanics. Most debuffs are just a short cd.

Rogues have better mobility than enhancers do baseline. And yes, FL puts us mobility wise a little bit ahead. On the other hand, they have insane def cds, immunities, life savers. We don't. From what we know, rogues may have perma -50% aoe damage reduction whenever they need it + cloak + a talent row around ADDITIONAL defenses. That's hardly comparable as the rogues toolkit is much better - by a far margin. The same counts for pretty much every melee. Good def cds were always a lot more important than 1sec less uptime on the boss.

And as a trade-off Rogues offer no raid utility or AoE CC capabilities.

[Tore]

Rogues offer the only raid utility that really matters, which is the ability to solo soak and nullify mechanics.

[Deleted]

And as a trade-off Rogues offer no raid utility or AoE CC capabilities.

Well the only AOE CC worthwile was always aoe stuns. Lightning surge totem just doesnt work because of 5 sec activation time.

Thats another point. The lvl 45 talent row never works in raid environents. Lightnibg needs to activate instantly, not after 5 seconds. Voodoo totem is a bad joke. And Earthgrab doesnt work in PVE (at least in PvP).

Id be happy to lose all 3 of them and get something useful instead. We have a lot of tools, but most of them are very very weak.

Just look at how every raid wanted rogues in WOD. And they are stronger than ever because they lost nearly nthing where as others lost a lot. We only gained wibd rush via talent. Which will force us to take that talent and lose our best mobility talent...

Great...

- - - Updated - - -

Rogues offer the only raid utility that really matters, which is the ability to solo soak and nullify mechanics.

True point. Mass grip is at least gone for most DKs for now. But they can soak a lot of mechanics too.

Stuns was always useful. And Roar had some use too. So wind rush has potential. Thats why it should be baseline.

[Darleth]

Well the only AOE CC worthwile was always aoe stuns. Lightning surge totem just doesnt work because of 5 sec activation time.

Thats another point. The lvl 45 talent row never works in raid environents. Lightnibg needs to activate instantly, not after 5 seconds. Voodoo totem is a bad joke. And Earthgrab doesnt work in PVE (at least in PvP).

I still think we need a single-target stun personally. Im all for having Voodoo Totem, Cap Totem and maybe a single-target CC in the same row. Or either remove Voodoo or Cap Totem and having Earthgrab in there. This way we have a choice between AoE CC (Root/Stun/Hex, depending on what is "replaced") or a single-target stun that just works instantly instead of waiting for 5 seconds until something happens.

[EnhAcidity]

I was happy to hear that some of our talents would be getting moved around to make for better choices however I kinda wish they would have been moved around a little bit differently. Here's how I would have liked to have seen them be positioned: (I'm going to ignore the level 30 and 45 rows because they don't affect dps much)

15 - Stays the same.
Just as a quick thought though, Hot Hand could possibly be moved to compete with Tempest, but it is rather similar gameplay and would likely just be chosen based on numbers/tuning.

60 - Empowered Stormlash, Ancestral Swiftness, Landslide.
If there are gonna be passives that don't alter gameplay at all, they may as well be in the same tier in my opinion. I know that sorta goes against part of Blizzard's design philosophy of having both actives and passives on the same tier to be able to choose between them, but the reason I personally would like to see these talents competing is because whichever one numerically pulls out ahead, none of the talents will really alter the gameplay, so you won't feel like you're really "losing" an interesting talent that you like in order to take the passive talent that simply does more damage. E.g. It would kinda suck to be forced into taking Empowered Stormlash (where it currently is) instead of taking say Hailstorm or Crashing Storm which both alter gameplay, however small it may be it's still an extra thing to keep track of/consider. (I will admit I may be a bit biased here though because I personally just don't like Stormlash at all, and certainly don't want to take a talent to buff it cos numbers)

75 - Lightning Shield, Fury of Air, Sundering.
My thoughts here are to either redesign Lightning Shield to either be a cooldown (anywhere between 15-60 secs) as an increase to single target dps, or to work a little bit more similar to Fury of Air and drain MP per sec in order to maintain it for a DPS increase. Fury of Air is Fury of Air, nuff said. And Sundering can act as the burst single target/AoE CD.

90 - Tempest, Overcharge, Earthen Spike.
This tier would change your rotation gameplay a bit, all of them being single target oriented. Tempest being a proc to react to, Overcharge adding an additional ability to your rotation, and Earthen Spike also adding an additional ability with the added debuff to track/manage/pool for to get the best use out of. Not much else to say here.

100 - Crashing Storm, Hailstorm, Ascendance/Forked Lightning.
Crashing Storm for AoE, Hailstorm for Single Target, and, ideally, Forked Lightning for cleave. Personally I'd love to see the PvP talent Forked Lighting make it's way into the PvE talent tree. It seems out of place in PvP, (accidentally breaking CC for example) and would be a great tool for cleave which Enhance doesn't really have. Obviously there can't be 4 talents in the same row so Ascendance would have to be moved (or removed completely, but that won't happen).
My personal favourite solution would be to get rid of the talents in the level 45 row, because they have close to absolutely no impact on PvE gameplay whatsoever, move Crashing Storm, Hailstorm and Forked Lightning to the level 45 row, and make the level 100 row look like this:
Ascendance, Skyfury Totem, Third Talent(NYI).
For those of you wondering what Skyfury Totem is, it's one of the PvP talents that increases the critical effect of your abilities for 15 sec, 45 sec CD. That means the tier would consist of choosing between a 3 min burst CD, a 45 sec more sustain CD, and a third talent. My idea for the third talent could function similar to the way Leader of the Clan PvP talent works, providing a consistent way to buff players with Stormlash. Even though I personally don't like Stormlash that much, it would provide a bit of synergy with the Empowered Stormlash talent to form a sort of "buff allies" build that some people might enjoy. However I think Blizz could think of much better things than I can.

TL;DR: I think the talent tree should look like this:
45 – Hailstorm, Crashing Storm, Forked Lightning
60 – Stormlash, Ancestral Swiftness, Landslide
75 – Lightning Shield, Fury of Air, Sundering
90 – Tempest, Overcharge, Earthen Spike
100 – Ascendance, Skyfury Totem, Leader of the Clan

Anyway those are my thoughts, didn't mean for it to be so long but wanted to give some insight to why I think they would be good changes. What do you guys think?

[Deleted]

I disagree with the idea of all passive talent rows. Making them all passives makes the talent row pointless. You choose and forget the one talent that performs best, end of story.
The point of having both passives and actives in the same row is wether or not you want that added degree of difficulty.

Of course it goes without saying that any talent that places additional attention on gameplay execution should perform better than a completely passive talent. So instead of killing an entire tier in fear of passives beating actives, blizz should instead make sure that actives will always be better, and ideally we'd always have two talents that actually change things up in any throughput talent row, and one passive.

As an end result, you could play the game with only passives, and do the least amount of dmg for the least amount of skill needed. Or you choose highest difficulty for highest potential. Imo that's the way they should go.


As for 75:
Lightning Shield: I've always envisioned it to be cool as a bladestorm-kinda ability. Basically LS would deal short lived, insane aoe damage around the target, on a cooldown. Using it defensively (The shield part), you can use it being focused in arena. Using it offensively (the lightning part), you jump into the fray to deal high amounts of aoe damage.
Optionally It could be made a pvp talent too, and be usable on any ally or even enemy.
The enemy team sticks together to much (centre of eye of the storm for example)? LS into the middle and they kill themselves
You're in the middle of the enemy camp? LS for great justice
You're being focused/peeled by melees? LS!, so get of my case!

Otherwise, as pve talent it would be cool for LS to be part of an aoe row for different types of aoe. While LS would be the short lived, high dmg burst cd, FoA could be for more sustained aoe damage. The third talent could be Crashing Storm or some other form of aoe dmg increase without adding more buttons.

Sundering should be a pvp talent while at it. That knockback will only annoy in pve, but in pvp may just be able to make some bgs really fun.

[tbm13]

I'd like to see LS changed in some way. It seems boring. I'd also like to see it change spots with windsong.

[pixelated senpai]

I dont think anyone would choose lightning shield even if it were a lvl 15 talent over rockbiter.It should never have been taken away as a baseline for the spec imo.

[nazrakin]

Group and Personal I think belong on a tier, they just need to be weighted in a way that you have the options of one or the other so that fights that don't lean toward group tools allow you to switch over to something personal. I still agree though that a personal DR belongs somewhere in these two tiers since obviously our defense has gone down when others who have been "defensive focused" had their mobility upped, and our base defense now is significantly worse than it realistically should be to balance out that stuff amongst other classes (again hate comparing but it's pretty extreme the gap now).

I'm not sure you can find proper balance between personal and group utility. Instead, you end up with a niche design that totally dilutes choice and turns the rows into more of a conditional statement where If x is true, then one talent is the right choice and the others are wrong. I also think its just unfair to have us making such a potential sacrifice to our personal mobility for the sake of others, are any other talent rows designed that way?

[tbm13]

I dont think anyone would choose lightning shield even if it were a lvl 15 talent over rockbiter.It should never have been taken away as a baseline for the spec imo.

What if they turned shield into an actual shield, that would generate maelstrom from being attacked. 10 second duration and like a 30 second CD, would at least make it useful.
I just don't like having to choose between Windsong and boulderfist. Maybe we'll see more changes.

[Raiju]

I'm not sure you can find proper balance between personal and group utility. Instead, you end up with a niche design that totally dilutes choice and turns the rows into more of a conditional statement where If x is true, then one talent is the right choice and the others are wrong. I also think its just unfair to have us making such a potential sacrifice to our personal mobility for the sake of others, are any other talent rows designed that way?

I'm not sure in legion, but definitely in WoD.

Also the statement happens regardless - you just pick the group utility applicable to the fight. Having it group vs personal does technically leave you that option on whether the group needs it. If you aren't 'sacrificing' then there wasn't a choice to begin with.

[wordup]

I'm not sure in legion, but definitely in WoD.

Also the statement happens regardless - you just pick the group utility applicable to the fight. Having it group vs personal does technically leave you that option on whether the group needs it. If you aren't 'sacrificing' then there wasn't a choice to begin with.

I agree that in WoD, yes that's true and I 100% agree. My point is more that ultimately things are moving to a system different to that in Legion when you see the general direction blue posts tend to point to, that things aren't supposed to be as freely available or universal without penalty. My suggestions whenever I do so tend to be in an attempt to bridge that gap between what's needed and what they want to aim for, since asking for "X immunity soak, X raid CD, X raid utility" isn't going to work, because they just don't want to give them outl.

[Deleted]

What if they turned shield into an actual shield, that would generate maelstrom from being attacked. 10 second duration and like a 30 second CD, would at least make it useful.
I just don't like having to choose between Windsong and boulderfist. Maybe we'll see more changes.

Imagine the pvp carnage with that . We couldn't spam Healing Surge fast enough to spend that MS :P.

[Deleted]

I agree that in WoD, yes that's true and I 100% agree. My point is more that ultimately things are moving to a system different to that in Legion when you see the general direction blue posts tend to point to, that things aren't supposed to be as freely available or universal without penalty. My suggestions whenever I do so tend to be in an attempt to bridge that gap between what's needed and what they want to aim for, since asking for "X immunity soak, X raid CD, X raid utility" isn't going to work, because they just don't want to give them outl.

If it was like that - great.

But it isnt. Some have everything (even baseline), others have only one thing.

It is okay for ranged specs bevause ranged itself is strong utility. But if you have 2 or 3 melees in a raid encounter, there is a lot of competition.

Mobility means nothing for your raid leader. In fact he doesnt care about mobility as long as you dont die. But he cares about those guides where everyone tells you "pick the rogue because he can soak ability x or y solo".

- - - Updated - - -

Imagine the pvp carnage with that . We couldn't spam Healing Surge fast enough to spend that MS :P.

This LS would fit the pvp talent tree much better.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and mobility wise, we arent good either. There are a lot of reports from PVP players saying that they have insanely low uptime on targets because:

- the lack of stuns
- enhancers feel like they are made of paper
- others being much more mobile, simply kiting us to death (even other melees can do this...)

Losing Frost shock, replacing it with frost brand, doesn't work because frost brand needs you to be in melee range. Frost shock had a solid range to get to the target.

After all, we look weak mobility and defense wise. We lack both currently. Demon hunters seem to be 100% better than we are mobility wise and others have much stronger CC and def CDs, so we can't kill them, but they can easily kill us within a few GCDs.

[Deleted]

Dont know if i can say that here so sorry, but wanna share this for all of you.

I am the only one who does not like the new animation from Wind Fury weapon? i think its terrible now ... the old tornado animation was fu***ng amazing for me since BC, i hope blizz put a minor gliph to restore the old animation :/

Anyone here think like me?

[Deleted]

Dont know if i can say that here so sorry, but wanna share this for all of you.

I am the only one who does not like the new animation from Wind Fury weapon? i think its terrible now ... the old tornado animation was fu***ng amazing for me since BC, i hope blizz put a minor gliph to restore the old animation :/

Anyone here think like me?

Pretty sure this is the 3rd iteration of windfury visual so far, don't like it though. While on that topic also prefer pre-legion lava lash and lightning bolt.

ps: stormblast never forget

[Imnick]

Dont know if i can say that here so sorry, but wanna share this for all of you.

I am the only one who does not like the new animation from Wind Fury weapon? i think its terrible now ... the old tornado animation was fu***ng amazing for me since BC, i hope blizz put a minor gliph to restore the old animation :/

Anyone here think like me?

Why did you cross post this post in two topics?
Anyway the old tornado animation is really dated and awful.

[Raiju]

ps: stormblast never forget

It's because enhancement doesn't use lightning, duh.

[Huggykaze]

Mobility means nothing for your raid leader. In fact he doesnt care about mobility as long as you dont die. But he cares about those guides where everyone tells you "pick the rogue because he can soak ability x or y solo".

Well, it's not like 9 melee or 3 melee matters for 99% of guilds out there. We used to have 6 or 7 melee in the core raiding group (warrior, 2 rogues, 2 DKs, Feral and Retri). Over time as people left or get kicked we were left with 3 (4 as I reroll Enh, from Hunter) and I wouldn't say things go much smoother. Well, no Feral is a DPS gain, 1 DK was a slacker, but it's personal skill thing, not range/melee matter. Oh, yes, we are 13/13, and we even started 2 months late ;o

Btw, Shamans need something like "Dance Totem" which would spawn a bigass totem and make allies around it dance. Should also increase their spirit by 4. Native Americans tribute :P

[Deleted]

Well, it's not like 9 melee or 3 melee matters for 99% of guilds out there. We used to have 6 or 7 melee in the core raiding group (warrior, 2 rogues, 2 DKs, Feral and Retri). Over time as people left or get kicked we were left with 3 (4 as I reroll Enh, from Hunter) and I wouldn't say things go much smoother. Well, no Feral is a DPS gain, 1 DK was a slacker, but it's personal skill thing, not range/melee matter. Oh, yes, we are 13/13, and we even started 2 months late ;o

Btw, Shamans need something like "Dance Totem" which would spawn a bigass totem and make allies around it dance. Should also increase their spirit by 4. Native Americans tribute :P

So if your guild has 3 or 4 melees you are in a good role. Our raid lead had 6 to 7 and picked 2 to 4 of them, strongly based on utility. I was benched on iron reaver and council for obvious reasons. Kromrork well wasnt easy too. Was more like a compromise. Also had no chance on gorefiend.

I didnt find HFC very funny. I changed the raid because of this, but even my good dps didnt work very good. Because of how bad enhancers reputation was. Was benched on Zakuun progress because rogues, rets and palas could soak. I was benched on Tyrant for crappy dps logs from others. After that i was playing always beause of recruiting issues.

But i have enough from all those "you cant soak so youre benched"or weak single target dps or no mass grip.