World Fantasy award drops HP Lovecraft as prize image

[Rixis]

A major percentage of historical figures and icons have held opinions that we condemn today, because that was the time they lived in.

Their work is what should matter, just leave their opinions about other stuff out of it. The trend in the recent years of condemning famous historical people has been incredibly, ridiculously selective.

Is anyone really going to start punching black people because they heard Lovecraft was a good storyteller?

I like you, you seem to share a lot of my thoughts

[Polyxo]

Why not make it a Tolkien? All of their recipients are usually half borrowing his ideas anyway.

[Aeula]

Give it a little longer and people will start complaining that Washington shouldn't be considered one of the greatest presidents.

They aren't already? He owned slaves back when it was legal.

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Why not make it a Tolkien? All of their recipients are usually half borrowing his ideas anyway.

Wasn't he supposedly 'racist' too?

[buck008]

Wasn't he supposedly 'racist' too?

Anti-semitic, I think.

[Anastacy]

Some people here have awards given out in their name, as well.

I'm sure we can find more.

[zorkuus]

We should erase the mention of most historical figures because I'm sure they all had some stupid views that wouldn't fly today.

[sarahtasher]

No one ever seriously accused of Tolkien of being anti-semitic, he mocked opently the actual Nazis when they asked for publication rights.

That said, you can throw rocks at me, but if this is the conscequence of something, that's less ''international SJW conspiracy'' that ''Vox Day and Rabid Puppy two-cents attempt to hijack the Hugos''

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They aren't already? He owned slaves back when it was legal.

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Wasn't he supposedly 'racist' too?

Anyone with a modicum of historical knowledge can tell you that while Washington was a great politician, his military competence is much more contestable

[Deleted]

Anti-semitic, I think.

Tolkien wasn't antisemitc.

"Personally, I should be inclined to refuse to give any Bestätigung (although it happens that I can), and let a German translation go hang. In any case I should object strongly to any such declaration appearing in print. I do not regard the (probable) absence of all Jewish blood as necessarily honourable; and I have many Jewish friends, and should regret giving any colour to the notion that I subscribed to the wholly pernicious and unscientific race-doctrine."

[Munson85]

Why would they name it after such a shitty writer anyways. O behold the horrible object, but, even though this is a story expressed in words I just don't have the words to describe it, but here is a page long wall of text describing how I can't describe it. O and look out yellow menace!!11!!!!

[buck008]

Tolkien wasn't antisemitc.

"Personally, I should be inclined to refuse to give any Bestätigung (although it happens that I can), and let a German translation go hang. In any case I should object strongly to any such declaration appearing in print. I do not regard the (probable) absence of all Jewish blood as necessarily honourable; and I have many Jewish friends, and should regret giving any colour to the notion that I subscribed to the wholly pernicious and unscientific race-doctrine."

Fair enough. It was a thing I had heard about him quite often, but never cared enough to look into.

[Deleted]

Not sure why Lovecraft was used in the first place. His imagination and creativity were brilliant, but that aside, he's a mediocre author at best, full of shock-horror endings and poor characterization. I'd imagine someone like Frank Herbert would have been a better choice.

[sarahtasher]

Lovecraft is not an horrible author, he is a dated author. His writings are interesting, they are precursors works, but they have glaring issues, of which ''incredible racism'' is minor.

For instance, The Shadow Over Innsmouth. In addition that the reader is supposed to be more shocked by the fact that pure blooded New Englanders married non white people over fish people (I can go over it, but man, it's really not subtle), the novel is still about what most people today would think off Murlocs.

[Taojnhy]

Saying that Herman Melville style is not very good (which is a perfectly defendable) does not mean Lovecraf's style is good.

I read when I was a kid all Jules Vernes book in French. They are edutainment work at core, and it shows The characters are flat (with excuse motivation like ''make a journey because of a stupid bet occuring in at least seven different books) They are good books, I really kike them, but Jules Vernes is clerarly a step below HG Wells from steampunk/proto SF.

Easily the most inadvertent, while remaining relevant to the topic, typo I've encountered this month.

[sarahtasher]

Yes, this is embarassing. But what I meant that if you compare The War of the Worlds with countless other invasions stories, including modern ones, the War of the World remains pretty competitive. While the cosmic abominations of Lovecraft, nowadays, well, they are not very frightening for the jaded reader.

[hrugner]

Tolkien wasn't antisemitc.

"Personally, I should be inclined to refuse to give any Bestätigung (although it happens that I can), and let a German translation go hang. In any case I should object strongly to any such declaration appearing in print. I do not regard the (probable) absence of all Jewish blood as necessarily honourable; and I have many Jewish friends, and should regret giving any colour to the notion that I subscribed to the wholly pernicious and unscientific race-doctrine."

The idea that he's racist comes from a quote where he compares dwarves to jews. The context is speaking of language as is mentioned in the single sentence quote, but the quote is often closely pruned. There are some other things that associate the two races, but thinking Tolkien hated jews/dwarves you'd have to be pretty dedicated to that outcome.

"The dwarves of course are quite obviously - wouldn't you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews? Their words are Semitic obviously, constructed to be Semitic."

[Aeula]

No one ever seriously accused of Tolkien of being anti-semitic, he mocked opently the actual Nazis when they asked for publication rights.

That said, you can throw rocks at me, but if this is the conscequence of something, that's less ''international SJW conspiracy'' that ''Vox Day and Rabid Puppy two-cents attempt to hijack the Hugos''

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Anyone with a modicum of historical knowledge can tell you that while Washington was a great politician, his military competence is much more contestable

Never debated that. Just saying I'd be surprised if people weren't demanding his monuments/face on the dollar be removed because slavery. Considering how politically correct we've all become.

[Fencers]

Seems a pretty reasonable cause for changing the award.

Culture and society changes over time.

[buck008]

Seems a pretty reasonable cause for changing the award.

Culture and society changes over time.

I disagree. His work wasn't particularly racist, nor was it a manifesto on racist ideals. It did, however, influence countless generations of writers to explore the genre. His work is essential reading to understand the development of an entire genre of fiction. He lived in a different age, and his views were typical of the day.

[ro9ue]

Well that's fucking stupid.

[zorkuus]

Culture and society changes over time.

All the more reason we shouldn't be so quick to judge historical figures based on modern morals. The further we dig we'd soon realize we'd have to bury most of history and pretend these people didn't exist.