Legion - Assassination Discussion

[Eazy]

Assassination
One of the favorite tools of the assassin is a pair of daggers coated with vicious poisons. The damage they inflict is deceiving at first—the initial wounds often seem survivable, even superficial. Then the toxins set about their business. Wounds don’t close, and blood loss continues unabated. Assassins begin their work stealthily, choosing their targets and methods of engagement carefully—but once committed to a course of action, they stick to their target until the job is done rather than disappearing into the shadows to avoid their quarry’s blows.

"Assassins begin their work stealthily, choosing their targets and methods of engagement carefully"

Gameplay
For Rogues, no specialization describes itself better than Assassination, which also remains closely aligned with its existing fantasy. And we’re further enhancing those themes through their gameplay. First, this is now the only Rogue spec with access to poisons and bleeds, making much of your damage a little more delayed, but nonetheless massive. In addition, Venomous Wounds triggers based on a combination of bleeds and poisons now to accentuate that gameplay. Assassination is home to the most volatile combo-building. Mutilate is already effective in this regard, but Seal Fate needed some improvement—it now can trigger from both hands with Mutilate.

Here’s a basic look at the core combat abilities for Assassination Rogues:

Garrote
45 Energy, Melee Range, Instant, 15 sec cooldown
Garrote the enemy, causing strong damage over 18 sec and awarding 1 combo point. Silences the target for 3 sec when used from Stealth.

Mutilate
55 Energy, Melee Range, Instant
Attack with both weapons, dealing strong Physical damage. Awards 2 combo points.

Envenom
35 Energy, 1 to 5 Combo Points, Melee Range, Instant
Finishing move that drives your poisoned blades in deep, dealing instant Nature damage and increasing your poison application chance by 30%. Damage and duration increased per combo point.

Rupture
25 Energy, 1 to 5 Combo Points, Melee Range, Instant
Finishing move that tears open the target, dealing bleed damage over time. Lasts longer per combo point.

Seal Fate
Passive
When you critically strike with a melee attack that generates combo points, you gain an additional combo point.

Venomous Wounds
Passive
You regain 10 Energy each time you deal Bleed damage to a poisoned target.

Mastery: Potent Poisons
Increases the damage done by your poisons by 70% (with Mastery from typical gear).

Additionally, to give you an idea of how some talents may build upon this, here’s an example of one of their Assassination-specific talents:

Elaborate Planning
Passive
Your finishing moves grant 20% increased damage done for 4 sec.

Assassination Artifact(Anguish and Sorrow):


Some of the Artifact skins:


We have already threads with Subtlety and co... Outlaw, so now it's the time for Assassination.

What do you want next to see? What do you want to be changed?

For me:
-delete SnD from this spec(not sure if lack of it means that it'd be deleted as passive from the spec),
-add new poisons(corrosion, something like increases armor penetration by 10%),
-make mutilate hit stronger(it hits like a wet noodles, also it would balance the emptiness after SnD in terms of DPS),
-delete dispatch(what's so good in clicking other ability which does almost the same thing(DPS+CP)? I know that "execute phases" are cool, but still),
-add another nice ability to make the spec more attractive, maybe changing Crimson Tempest? Something like we have right now in WoD but better? "increases damage taken from poisons by 20% for 24 sec(5 CP)"
-change smoke-bomb to poison bomb/vial explosion, whatever, need more abilites, not ~3-4,
-delete vedetta(not very attractive CD), or at least make it usefull on other targets, like increases YOUR dmg by % in x sec. (Hunger for Blood), sticking to only one opponent is boring and really annoying,

UPDATED for Pre-patch 7.0.3:
Icy Vein Assassination 7.0.3 GUIDE

[Lex Icon]

would be nice if vendetta became a selfbuff.. and while they're changing names they could change the name on that one to. i'm an assassin i'm not some guy out to settle scores.

[Spiritvs]

Thanks for starting this topic.
Was wondering why Assassination didn't have an own topic. (and sticky please?)
I love Assassination, my fav spec by far (PVP wise).
Would love that Garrote and Rupture damage was serious
I think they should low Garrote Cd, and allow us to "multi dot".
Wound and Deadly poison should be merged.

[Lex Icon]

Thanks for starting this topic.
Was wondering why Assassination didn't have an own topic. (and sticky please?)
I love Assassination, my fav spec by far (PVP wise).
Would love that Garrote and Rupture damage was serious
I think they should low Garrote Cd, and allow us to "multi dot".
Wound and Deadly poison should be merged.

i like the way you think

speaking of poisons you think there will be any change to the non lethal ones?

[Eazy]

Thanks for starting this topic.
Was wondering why Assassination didn't have an own topic. (and sticky please?)
I love Assassination, my fav spec by far (PVP wise).

#AssassinationPride

Would love that Garrote and Rupture damage was serious
I think they should low Garrote Cd, and allow us to "multi dot".

Well, they're already strong because of the Venomous Wounds, though I think that they should buff it up because of the lack of SnD.

Wound and Deadly poison should be merged.

PvP-Wise it would be a great change. If we needed the poisons that does instant damage then instead of the Wound we should have chance to use Instant Poison(in every spec).

would be nice if vendetta became a selfbuff.. and while they're changing names they could change the name on that one to. i'm an assassin i'm not some guy out to settle scores.

That's right.

My own ideas:

[Spiritvs]

Well, they're already strong because of the Venomous Wounds, though I think that they should buff it up because of the lack of SnD.

They removed the dmg part of Venomous Wounds so now it just regens energy:

Venomous Wounds
Passive
You regain 10 Energy each time you deal Bleed damage to a poisoned target.

So we losing some dmg there. But gaining some serious regen, since we have 2 bleeds now (or 3 with crimson tempest).
Also the mastery is weaker now cause Venomous Wounds changed.
Give us feral druid mastery please :P

[bloodmoth13]

Id like to see vendetta changed.
Deal X bonus damage to target is REALLY boring, especially for a dot based spec! its rather lackluster.

Proposal: mark a target for death increasing weapon damage to the target (mutilate/envenom/auto attack). you may reactivate vendetta up to 3 times to teleport to your target.
The idea for this is that you need to have high uptime on your target to make the most of it with the damage increase coming from your non DoT based sources of damage, reinforcing the idea that you are tunneling into an opponent for the kill, a real vendetta. This will affect the choices you make while active, prioritizing direct damage over DoT management, making the best use cases just after dots have being applied and giving assassins some on demand burst, to contrast to the rather slow ramp up damage their DoTs offer. The mobility added is to give it unique flavor, PVP power and to help with uptime
With just a plain damage increase, your passive dots would be the prime benefactor of this CD, which would feel rather lackluster as opposed to a pure DoT based CD.

[Feali]

Id like to see vendetta changed.
Deal X bonus damage to target is REALLY boring, especially for a dot based spec! its rather lackluster.

Proposal: mark a target for death increasing weapon damage to the target (mutilate/envenom/auto attack). you may reactivate vendetta up to 3 times to teleport to your target.
The idea for this is that you need to have high uptime on your target to make the most of it with the damage increase coming from your non DoT based sources of damage, reinforcing the idea that you are tunneling into an opponent for the kill, a real vendetta. This will affect the choices you make while active, prioritizing direct damage over DoT management, making the best use cases just after dots have being applied and giving assassins some on demand burst, to contrast to the rather slow ramp up damage their DoTs offer. The mobility added is to give it unique flavor, PVP power and to help with uptime
With just a plain damage increase, your passive dots would be the prime benefactor of this CD, which would feel rather lackluster as opposed to a pure DoT based CD.

Stop punishing target switches. And you wanna know why Adrenaline Rush is the best cooldown Rogues have? It's good for single target AND AoE.

[bloodmoth13]

Stop punishing target switches. And you wanna know why Adrenaline Rush is the best cooldown Rogues have? It's good for single target AND AoE.

Ughghhghg its not punishing for target switching, but it is punishing for stupid players though.

If every cooldown was always good all the time, it wouldnt require any thought, just 'use this off CD', that to me is boring and homogeneous.

If they REALLY perform soo much worse on AoE fights, perhaps they can get an aoe CD to compliment it (something that only works in aoe situations), its not like everyone needs every tool available all the time (unless you really love homogenization)

This idea gives a unique use case and unique flavor, thats what specs are about, and spec cooldowns should tie in strongly to the spec identity instead of always being a bland "makes you deal X% more damage"

Alternatively, Sass rogues could simply just have higher base aoe dps baseline to make up for the shortfall that a non-aoe CD provides.

Anywho, STOP STIFLING CREATIVITY!!!

[Deleted]

They said they´re bringing sub and sin AOE up to competitive levels compared to combat.
I seem to recall Sin AOE being pretty strong at some point, FoK spam during envenom and such.. seem to also recall this being before FoK awarded combo points and that being somewhat awkward as it didnt contribute towards the next envenom.
Memory is foggy though.

There´s a ton of ways to go about that, one way could be to put in a target-less AOE geared CD that´s shares CD with Vendetta.
So for ST, you slap Vendetta on the target, for AOE, you pop the other one (could be specifically buffing FoK or poison application via FoK or something).
That gives you some choice, and retains some reward to knowing the fight and when to use which ability.
Just a thought.

If the whole Dispatch procc is still in there, another AOE thing you could do in line with that is to have a strong AOE ability that´s procced from FoK, the way Dispatch is from Mutilate.
Like "toxic mist" or poison vial everyone keeps going back to, like a rolling dot applied to targets in FoK range or something. (basically a poison version of Crimson Tempest, as a CP builder instead of finisher).

[Florena]

would be nice if vendetta became a selfbuff.. and while they're changing names they could change the name on that one to. i'm an assassin i'm not some guy out to settle scores.

Thematically I think the idea is 'you're an assassin, this is your target and you focus entirely on your target.' I like that thematically, though I haven't raided in WoD on my rogue so not sure how much of a pain it is to use in practice. I don't remember having too much issue with it before so long as I was careful about when I used it.

Perhaps another mechanic could be worked into it as a compromise? If that target dies while Vendetta is still active, then the cooldown is reduced depending on how much time it still had active? Just making it buff the rogue though would make it an incredibly boring cooldown unless the % damage increase was changed to something else. It's not the most exciting cooldown as is, but at least it has the 'assassin's target focus' thematically.

[Lex Icon]

Thematically I think the idea is 'you're an assassin, this is your target and you focus entirely on your target.' I like that thematically, though I haven't raided in WoD on my rogue so not sure how much of a pain it is to use in practice. I don't remember having too much issue with it before so long as I was careful about when I used it.

Perhaps another mechanic could be worked into it as a compromise? If that target dies while Vendetta is still active, then the cooldown is reduced depending on how much time it still had active? Just making it buff the rogue though would make it an incredibly boring cooldown unless the % damage increase was changed to something else. It's not the most exciting cooldown as is, but at least it has the 'assassin's target focus' thematically.

honestly most cd abilities are boring and uninispiring so may aswell make it more reliable..

[Aceveda]

Bring back Cold Blood <3

[ro9ue]

I might be one of the few. But I love Assassination as it is now mechanically. The only thing I would ask for is maybe Venomous Wounds attached to Crimson Tempest bleeds and some more interesting visual animations. Like splashes of poison everywhere or turning your opponents green and sickly (via a glyph).

- - - Updated - - -

My own ideas:

Not sure about the 1st and 3rd ones, but I really would love to see a Poison Bomb ability. Fits the Assassination kit really well.

[Eazy]

Not sure about the 1st and 3rd ones, but I really would love to see a Poison Bomb ability. Fits the Assassination kit really well.

Thanks, they are just "ideas".

Bring back Cold Blood <3

I think that you have it already and it's called Vendetta, though it's just fused Vendetta and Cold Blood.

[Florena]

Didn't cold blood just give a bit of energy and make your next ability crit? How is that related to vendetta?

[Deleted]

Didn't cold blood just give a bit of energy and make your next ability crit? How is that related to vendetta?

Vendetta perk makes your next ability after using it 100% crit. Though it still doesn't make the cooldown interesting. Though the majority of people want it to be a self-buff, I think that would only make it even more boring. I would keep the debuff thing, reduce its cd and duration, make it something that interacts with the spec like "your bleeds and poison dots deal 300% more damage to the target for the next 15 secs" or something along those lines.

[Aceveda]

Thanks, they are just "ideas".



I think that you have it already and it's called Vendetta, though it's just fused Vendetta and Cold Blood.

I know that, but I miss the glow, don't care for Vendetta.

[Florena]

Vendetta perk makes your next ability after using it 100% crit. Though it still doesn't make the cooldown interesting. Though the majority of people want it to be a self-buff, I think that would only make it even more boring. I would keep the debuff thing, reduce its cd and duration, make it something that interacts with the spec like "your bleeds and poison dots deal 300% more damage to the target for the next 15 secs" or something along those lines.

Ah right forgot about the perk.

Something like that could work. I like the theme behind it of 'you're an assassin focusing intently on your target' but agree something besides X% more damage could go a long way to make it more interesting, especially with the new reofcusing on poisons and bleeds for the spec's identity.

[Spiritvs]

I think i lost count on how many dot's assassin have in legion (counting pvp talents). and i love it.
I see sub and outlaw topics with lot's of replies, but i believe assassin will be the best pvp spec tbh.
Master poisoner seems so good... the 20% on the non damagin effects means that numbling poison increases damage done by 30% by stack? That can't be right..
Anyway im pretty happy about assination, deadly brew, creeping venon, and it seems we keep shadowstep?
Let's see how it goes, many things may be bugged.