Are you scared for our mobility because of Demon Hunters?

[Runeheal]

Ferals have virtually no CC breaks outside trinket, have no strong magic damage reduction cd (while monk have 2 90% ones, and a cd that reflects ALL damage to the target), their stun is not on demand as it requires either stealth or 5 cp's (and no, cyclone is not a stun, you can't focus people down while they're cycloned).

A feral is so much easier to pin down. So what if they can shift out of roots and snares, it forces them to waste a GCD of doing zero damage or healing, and their mobility is base speed increase, not a variety of instant teleports or BURST mobility.

I'll take my monk's mobility any day over a feral. Feral chases me? Incapacitate. Trinket it? Leg Sweep, Dragon Kick in the opposite direction and get enough distance to mount up and leave.

It's not even on the same league.

The only class remotely more ridiculous at escaping or closing distance is a burst of speed rogue, and that's because rogues are plain retarded and broken.

Monk issues are survival against melee trains and self healing in teamfights. That's it. They're an otherwise powerful melee class.

Uh, druids can shift slows and roots, whereas only tiger's lust breaks roots for monk. They have a sprint, a charge, a blink and their interrupt also charges. They have a much better slow than us, can root, mighty bash/typhoon and have stronger cooldowns and take less much less damage while in bear form, and their healing is equal to windwalkers with tigereye brew up.


1v1 a monk can outrun a druid if you use transcendence to juke, but ferals are very slippery and sticky.

[Vulgrym]

I remember when Warrior mobility was a special and unique snowflake.

I'm sure it'll be fine.

[Lucrece]

Uh, druids can shift slows and roots, whereas only tiger's lust breaks roots for monk. They have a sprint, a charge, a blink and their interrupt also charges. They have a much better slow than us, can root, mighty bash/typhoon and have stronger cooldowns and take less much less damage while in bear form, and their healing is equal to windwalkers with tigereye brew up.


1v1 a monk can outrun a druid if you use transcendence to juke, but ferals are very slippery and sticky.

Are you serious? You just listed a bunch of mutually exclusive feral utilities as if they had access to them all at the same time. Displacer Beast and Feral Charge are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE on the same talent row. Nobody picks feral charge because it's shit compared to Displacer Beast, which is a 30 sec cd compared to monk roll which is a 20 sec cd 2 charges or a flying serpent kick at 25 sec cd.

Shifting roots and slows, as I said, is a waste of GCD. You're doing nothing shifting out while DK's are mindlessly reapplying it with their easy chillblains and the million other snares from frost mages flying your way as well in a battleground. It's not as neat as instantly JUMPING away from the battle like roll and other said teleports do.

I don't know how you can say they have a much better slow. Your slow roots the target if it is already slowed, and it renewes from any melee strike, while the feral's slow is tied to continued energy expenditure.

Their interrupt charges a negligible distance, if you're using your interrupt to close a gap instead of actually interrupting a spell, you've got issues. If you want to talk about bonus features to abilities, fists of fury is an ability with ridiculous damage that also stuns for its duration, on top of another long lasting aoe stun in leg sweep. If monks had some actual survival in large teamfights, these tools would be pretty damn valuable for creating pressure. Alas, both feral and windwalker monk do well in arenas but are way too squishy to focus fire in rated BG's, so the infinitely superior rogues are taken instead since rogues have same or better mobility, a ton of "can't focus me" reset cooldowns, and stuns/silences for days.


Mighty bash is straight up garbage. It's a melee range single target stun on one of the longest cooldowns for single target stuns, and is a TALENT. Typhoon is, you know, kinda counterproductive to a melee spec. It also budges the target a tiny distance away too negligible to make much of a difference for escape/survival.

If a feral is in bear form, he's doing virtually zero damage. You know, like a defensive stance warrior, but less. And their "tigereye brew healing" is a dispellable proc based on building up combo points.


Point is, you're largely exaggerating the usefulness of ferals to create your monk pity party. Either way, both monk and feral have always been eclipsed by rogues. And this is not unique, hybrids have always been eclipsed by pures in PvP. Warlocks and Mages historically have dominated over ele shamans/balance druids/spriests, warriors have dominated over ret pally, and rogues have pushed feral and monk into a few niche comps.

[Deleted]

I'm not really scared. From what is currently available it seems like Monks might be THE most mobile/sticky melee in Legion PvP. Just look at what other classes got/lost:

- Aside from Assassination, Rogues lost Crippling Poison and slows are now tied to spells in their damage rotation that cost resources
- Rogues lost Burst of Speed, which has a BIG impact on their mobility. Assassination got Shadowstep baseline, Outlaw can talent for a Heroic Leap ability, Sub is curently seriously F**ked in terms of mobility (Shadowstrike being only usable after a finisher)
- Feral slow has moved from Shred to Rake, which is not THAT of a big deal, but spamming it will result in a DPS loss now
- Paladins lost their double freedom and also their ability to dispel movement impairing effects on themselves
- Ranged Hunters lost their traps completely (no more knockback, frost trap, snake trap), they kept frozen ammo though
- Balance/Resto Druids lost their slow (Faerie Fire talent)

This is all subject to change of course, but you can see the general direction that there is a tendency to remove both, the availability of snares/slows and the availability of gap closers, slow removals.

As for Demon Hunters. Their talents are not out yet, so really hard to judge. But if they only keep what they currently have, they are definitely lacking a slow breaker to compete in mobility. Their Fel Rush is not targeted and you know from using Roll/Torpedo that this is not as effective as lets say Charge in closing distances. The higher base speed, which I think will be around what Feral Druids currently have (130% baseline), will not matter that much as if you are snared 130% turn into 65% with a 50% snare.

On the contrary, Monk mobility seems really strong with the current talents, just look at these talents:
- Chi Torpedo: +30% speed after roll
- Maneuverability: 3 charges on Roll/Torpedo
- Yu'lon's Gift: disple snares with Roll/Torpedo

combining those 3 you get 3 charges of snare dispel and 140% movement speed with 20 sec recharge. But in general, look at the other options in the PvP tree. You definitely get the idea that mobility is THE main theme on Windwalkers in PvP. Out of the 12 class-specific talents, 8 are kind of related to mobility.

The main thing with mobility in PvP are the ability to supress snares and possibly roots and also the ability to close distance. Warriors for example have got closing options but bad options against snares/roots, which makes them middle-ground in mobility. Ferals for example have both, they can dispel snares/roots AND they have charge AND they have high base speed. This is what makes them so strong in mobility.

The Monk distance closers are really only good when you are not snared because they are not targeted. When you roll with a 50% snare on you the target will be out of reach again before you can snare. Demon Hunters will have the same trouble with Fel Rush. This makes Glyph of Freedom Roll so essential or Yu'lons'Gift come Legion.

Overall I think Monk mobility will stay at least on the same level as it is now if not better. As mobility goes down for almost all other melee classes I can see Monks even going for the top spot in that regard with only Ferals coming close, now that rogues lose their BoS.

[Deleted]

PvP: No. We get a lot of stuff there for mobility and slowing the target.
PvE: No. Other classes will probably be more mobile, but we usually have enough in our toolkit for almost all situations.

[Kiradyn]

Monks are pretty damn mobile, and the PvP talents only make it more so.

My concern is that it has been Blizzard's stated goal that they want DHs to be highly mobile, so they may be adding stuff to make them rival Monks.

Frankly, I wouldn't be too concerned. Monks benefit from being a class that can perform all the major roles a party needs, and they're pretty rare, while DHs only have two specs and will be all over the place.

I wouldn't be surprised if DHs reach a saturation point fairly early in the expansion, and groups start posting things like "Tank and DPS needed, No DHs please!".

[Solemnity]

Monks are pretty damn mobile, and the PvP talents only make it more so.

My concern is that it has been Blizzard's stated goal that they want DHs to be highly mobile, so they may be adding stuff to make them rival Monks.

Frankly, I wouldn't be too concerned. Monks benefit from being a class that can perform all the major roles a party needs, and they're pretty rare, while DHs only have two specs and will be all over the place.

I wouldn't be surprised if DHs reach a saturation point fairly early in the expansion, and groups start posting things like "Tank and DPS needed, No DHs please!".

If you believe Monk mobility is fine, imagine adding a lot of extra mobility to us. Would that suddenly skew the balance towards us having too much mobility? It's not about comparing Monks to Demon Hunters, but the principal in that we were the mobile class and suddenly there's a whole new tier of god-mode mobility.

While Demon Hunters may become oversaturated, mobility is largely not too relevant outside of PvP. I also don't really see the connection between Monks having 1 more spec having anything to do with class mobility.

[Deleted]

They will have an edge on MW/BrMs though

Nah, MW gets a new heal talent- 2 charges, 20 sec recharge time, 40 yd range. Instantly dash to an ally and heal them for X.

[Deleted]

With the pvp talents and artifact traits we are likely unparalleled in running away but chasing one down requires a certain amount of skill and low latency. I have several issues with rolling/FSK into a opponent and follow up with a FoF for instance. So in terms of "fleeing" mobility, no we are the best, but in terms of sustainable damage while being mobile DH's may rival us. The only reason we'd stand a chance is a being able to FoF while on the move (and stun with the pvp talent) but if I know Blizzard the talent will prevent us from moving and stunning at the same time. Its a real douchebag move to place SBF and the new tigerpalm blink into the same tier as FoF stun.

But am I the only one who is sick and tired of WW being squishy as hell and the fix being even more mobility? Dmg, run, heal - Dmg, run, heal. Looking at the talents & artifact traits, Blizzard clearly wants this play style for WW but I always thought that the WW initially seemed more Shaolin/Bruce Lee inspired rather than Jackie Chan (not that I don't like his work ).

[Solemnity]

Nah, MW gets a new heal talent- 2 charges, 20 sec recharge time, 40 yd range. Instantly dash to an ally and heal them for X.

Mistwalk. It's astronomically worse than the other two talents in its tier.

We are likely unparalleled for running away but chasing one down requires a certain amount of skill and low latency. I have several issues with rolling/FSK into a opponent and follow up with a FoF for instance.

But am I the only one who is sick and tired of WW being squishy as hell and the fix being even more mobility? Dmg, run, heal - Dmg, run, heal. Looking at the talents & artifact traits, Blizzard clearly wants this play style for WW but I always thought that the WW initially seemed more Shaolin/Bruce Lee inspired rather than Jackie Chan (not that I don't like his work ).

I think the healing ability of Blackout Kick should be increased. It's punishing to spam it with the Legion model, but some of the PvP talents seem to fix most of this anyway.

[Deleted]

Mistwalk. It's astronomically worse than the other two talents in its tier.

It's fun, that's all I care about any more.

[Res03]

Add Demon hunters to the list of Monks, Rogues, Druids, of the Classes that all ways gets away when they start to lose in PvP. Will never be able to catch them if your a Lock, Priest, Hunter, DK, Pally, Warrior, Shamie, . I Do not know why they let those classes move so fast and have so many get out of jail free cards and so many defensive use as Offence. Especially Rogues can do so much damage out of stealth and if they start to lose dot wipe runaway and druids same thing Night Elfs anyways.

So many I win and get out of jail free cards.

Lol crying about rogues, worst defesivess in game. Of course they need stealth they have toilet paper defense. You playing the same game or just some whiny warlords that had a chaos bolt kick and is going to cry now.

[Lucrece]

Lol crying about rogues, worst defesivess in game. Of course they need stealth they have toilet paper defense. You playing the same game or just some whiny warlords that had a chaos bolt kick and is going to cry now.

lol rogues got the worst defensives in the game? They're virtually the last melee class you can ever focus due to how much self peels/escapes they have.

It also kinda helps that as a rogue you don't have to work for your damage at all since so much of it is from the autoattacks. They have virtually the highest proportion of their damage put on autoattacks compared to the other classes in the game, making for easy results.

[Divinism]

Consider this, friends.

Celerity (Regular Talent) +1 roll charge
Maneuverability (PvP Talent) +1 roll charge
Acrobatics (Artifact Trait) +1 roll charge
Double Dragon (PvP Talent) +1 flying serpent kick charge

Result: 5 charges of roll, 2 charges of flying serpent kick

[Runeheal]

Are you serious?

I don't think you're fully understanding what I'm saying. Not once did I try to create some "monk pity party", seeing as I do not think there will be any mobility issues for monks in Legion, however, that doesn't mean that the stuff I said about ferals is untrue. Nor did I say that ferals can have Wild Charge and Displacer beast, I only mentioned it because Monks in PvP rarely choose anything but Tiger's Lust, whereas an aggressive feral chasing a healer could opt to take wild charge if they wanted, and use displacer beast against say, a Frost Mage, to break the root of frost nova and blink out of line of sight if the mage had cooldowns up.

Regarding skull bash, the fact that it charges is quite relevant, seeing as you can use it to interrupt when you're not in melee range, unlike SHS. How on earth does this not count as extra mobility? And how do you come to the conclusion that I'm not talking about using it as an interrupt, but as a gap closer?

I think you're also undervaluing the importance of shifting roots. Sure, you might not shift slows against death knights, but you're not facing 100% death knights in arena. Being able to get out of frost nova with one quick, no cooldown GCD is great. Monks can tiger's lust, but it also costs a GCD and has a 30 second cooldown. Unless you want to nimble brew a frost nova. Lol. Seeing as you talk about GCDs being important, you then go on to say our slow is better than ferals which is plain wrong, as it requires a GCD. Sure, our root may be easier to cast, but it also requires melee range and roots for a very short amount of time. Both of us will be able to keep a target slowed if we have full uptime hitting a target, but monks will spend a global reapplying it with a 20 energy cost if it's ever removed, which feral will not.

You're also making it seem as if roll is better than it is, your post makes it seem like roll having two charges makes its cooldown 10 seconds, and not 20, when that's simply not the case.

[Babylonius]

This thread is in the process of devolving into arguments and personal attacks as countless are. If you'd like to discuss Monk mobility, then this is the place to do it. If you'd like to complain about it in regards to other specs then use the RANT thread to do so. This thread is getting closed to needing to be locked so keep it on topic and constructive.

[XangXu]

Monks are are good and mobile in the current fight they are in. They can move around the combat area very quickly.

Demon Hunters seem like they are going to be more about traveling and catching up to their victims, rather then controlling a small combat area like Monks do.

It seems fitting of the fantasy for Demon Hunters to "hunt" you down while the Martial Arts Masters are good at keeping their range and melee balanced in a fight.

[Deleted]

Tbh DH is the only class I expect to outshine monks in regard to mobility.

[shammypie]

Mistwalk. It's astronomically worse than the other two talents in its tier.


I think the healing ability of Blackout Kick should be increased. It's punishing to spam it with the Legion model, but some of the PvP talents seem to fix most of this anyway.

healing wise yes but it might have a good place in 2s/3s to keep enemies off you even though it's overkill.

[Solemnity]

healing wise yes but it might have a good place in 2s/3s to keep enemies off you even though it's overkill.

Reference: Mistwalk / Focused Thunder / Soothing Elegance

The vagueness behind what a "large amount" is in terms of healing makes it hard to justify. Let me just rationalize all of these outloud, PvP wise. It seems to me that Mistwalk is great only if you can find advantage in its repositioning, Focused Thunder is better for burst healing, and Soothing Elegance gives heavy passive healing. None of them are bad choices, but I can see Focused Thunder being ridiculous.

• Mistwalk does two things: Positionally brings you to your ally, and heals them for a "large" amount. All we can do at our ally is probably RJW and Leg Sweep. In a lot of situations this could put you at a positional disadvantage, though.
• Focused Thunder will give you three charges to not cause ReM to go on cooldown, increase Effuse's healing to 200%, instantly cast EM, cast EF while moving, or use Vivify for free. I believe in PvP the most used ones will be increasing Effuse's healing to 200%, instantly casing EM, and using EF while moving. You can do all of these from a positionally superior position (transcendance snare?), while doing probably more healing than Mistwalk.
• Soothing Elegance might be great depending on how strong it is passively, especially with the totem and if we cannot be silenced with it (it may end up being a physical ability). Passive SooM while moving around the room is very attractive, but wont do much in times you need burst healing.