No more seals for Paladins in Legion

[Monzsterr]

Not surprised with seals going away. A buff switch button that doesn't change gameplay but just adds a tiny tiny passive effect, to the point that you can't even tell from your DPS if you were in the wrong seal or not.. Nope, won't miss it.

I only found one interesting seal option in raiding, that was to switch to SoJ while in Archimonde's banish if you had no one else to slow the void star. Other than that, was it ever interesting?

[Ghosting]

Auras: Devotion Aura, Sanctity Aura, Healing Aura, Shadow/Fire/Frost Resistance Auras, Concentration Aura maybe something im forgetting.

There was no Healing Aura. Sanctity wasn't an aura, but a passive group buff. And the one your forgetting is Retribution Aura. How can anyone forget Retribution Aura?

---

Personally never liked Hammer of Wrath. It always felt like the black sheep. Throwing a glowing blue hammer that leaves a blue streak behind it really meshes well with the white/yellow animations on everything else. Was great when a Paladin wanted to look like a Shaman.

As for Seals, I'm glad they're gone. They're nothing more than stances right now. No different from the DK variant.

Now all Blizzard needs to do is change Blessing of Might and Kings into auras and my wishlist will be complete.

---

Edit: Also one of the new spells was Hand of Hindrance. So hoping that our current Hand spells go back to being Blessings, our Blessings to Auras, and then the new hand spells are offensive only.

[rubenmsalles]

This sounds great
i will miss utility that every seal brings to the table, but i heard that will be auras
And our abilities will have baked with seals utility

i hope that talents and everything else will be at level of the sons of the light

[Gallahadd]

There was no Healing Aura. Sanctity wasn't an aura, but a passive group buff. And the one your forgetting is Retribution Aura. How can anyone forget Retribution Aura?

Actually it was, back in day.

It was an old Ret Aura that increased Holy Damaged dealt by 10%. However it was removed in patch 3.0.2.

Also you're right there was no Healing Aura, but there WAS a Blessing of Healing, that could be what Leolis is thinking of.

[Ghosting]

It was an old Ret Aura that increased Holy Damaged dealt by 10%. However it was removed in patch 3.0.2.

I stand corrected

[Morally Grey Storm]

I stand corrected

Talented Ret aura gained Sanctity Aura effect +10% holy damage with additional talent Improved Sanctity Aura which added +2% damage done to group to which Paladin was assigned.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Just wanted to express my sympathies to any of you Paladins who really enjoyed having seals all these years.

Being a Mage, I can relate, having lost my Mage Armors.

Brace yourselves for the second coming of the prune.

[Taeldorian]

Just wanted to express my sympathies to any of you Paladins who really enjoyed having seals all these years.

Being a Mage, I can relate, having lost my Mage Armors.

Brace yourselves for the second coming of the prune.

Lol, looks like we're in the same boat then.

[Leolis]

There was no Healing Aura. Sanctity wasn't an aura, but a passive group buff. And the one your forgetting is Retribution Aura. How can anyone forget Retribution Aura?

---

Personally never liked Hammer of Wrath. It always felt like the black sheep. Throwing a glowing blue hammer that leaves a blue streak behind it really meshes well with the white/yellow animations on everything else. Was great when a Paladin wanted to look like a Shaman.

As for Seals, I'm glad they're gone. They're nothing more than stances right now. No different from the DK variant.

Now all Blizzard needs to do is change Blessing of Might and Kings into auras and my wishlist will be complete.

---

Edit: Also one of the new spells was Hand of Hindrance. So hoping that our current Hand spells go back to being Blessings, our Blessings to Auras, and then the new hand spells are offensive only.

There was a Healing Aura way way back early vanilla. It was removed if I remember during 1.1 or 1.2 hell if you find old handbooks that go into class info you will see it.

[Deficineiron]

It's not just seals and auras though.
Let me list a brief list of abilities Retribution Paladins lost over time.
DI, SoC/SoB, Consecration, Exorcism, Hammer of Feth your Face, Judgement -effects, magic cleanse, stun removal, GoAK, E4E, personal (and incandescently awesome) Sacred Shield, Holy Light, Holy Radiance, Holy Wrath, Repentance, Fanaticism(if even for awesome visuals), and even godhelpme Inquisition.

I'm sure I mightve forgotten something, but you get the point.
So, what's left of Retribution? What defines Retribution now? Why call it Retribution at all?

sanctity aura (ret tree), which grouped with a pally tank offered a major increase in threat cap for the group/raid. at that point in the game pally tanks were (going from memory) like 90% holy damage.? this + 3% crit bonus vs target (or another extra judgment) for entire raid were the major utilities ret brought to a group, despite mediocre dps, at least in bc.

[Leolis]

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=31762/h...-aura#comments

This is closet proof I have for Healing Aura. When I get home I'll dig up old ret / pally stuff.

And silly me forgetting Ret aura.

[tuesday the paladin]

Healing Aura was in the original wow manual, but was removed when blizzard revamped paladins soon before release so technically it wasn't ever in the game.

[Wilian]

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=31762/h...-aura#comments

This is closet proof I have for Healing Aura. When I get home I'll dig up old ret / pally stuff.

And silly me forgetting Ret aura.

Healing Aura only ever existed in beta.

[Leolis]

Healing Aura was in the original wow manual, but was removed when blizzard revamped paladins soon before release so technically it wasn't ever in the game.

Yea I forgot about that, I remember it was there but just forgot when it was removed. But a lot of what made the Paladin fun was removed in 1.0 and seals came in and it was crap since.

[Wilian]

Yea I forgot about that, I remember it was there but just forgot when it was removed. But a lot of what made the Paladin fun was removed in 1.0 and seals came in and it was crap since.

Pretty much. 1.0 gutted paladin class for years to come.

[Tijuana]

Auras were removed for technical reasons; the constant range checking of them bogged down the servers. I doubt they will ever come back.

I for one will miss seals, as a ret pally. I know they have been nerfed to oblivion this xpac but, I found them to be another way to do just a little bit better than the next guy, and I liked the lore of them. However, it's a fair criticism that they are really just watered down warrior stances.

I'm most upset over Judgment being sort of a minor part of our rotation. I feel like it's a pretty iconic ability for paladins. That said, who knows, maybe the artifact or other talents will reduce the CD on it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

"Strong Class identity"

>Makes Ret into Executeless Arms Warriors.

Seals hardly did much of anything and you ignored them 99% of the time. They weren't that interesting gameplay. It may of fit the Paladin theme but that's the only thing it did.


What they could of done is make Seals do something more significant or turn them into cooldowns that do different things. If Avenging Wrath had to go away for this, I'd gladly sacrifice(No pun intended) Avenging Wrath, also I didn't care too much about Hammer of Wrath.

[Deficineiron]

Auras were removed for technical reasons; the constant range checking of them bogged down the servers. I doubt they will ever come back.

My question is not meant to be flippant.

Computer power per dollar might be 10x? what it was in 2005, at a time when the game used 40-man raids. Despite increasing graphic and computational demands of the game, there are still only so many objects to range check at a given time for a given party/raid/etc. It seems like the range-check cpu demand, if anything, would be a much, much smaller % of overall cpu usage on a server than it ever has been before.

Am i off base here? has the cpu power needed to range check increased proportionally or in greater proportion than processing power generally available on mainframes in the last decade?

even if auras were raid-wide (no idea if they are) now, the computer power issue seems to apply regardless.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

My question is not meant to be flippant.

Computer power per dollar might be 10x? what it was in 2005, at a time when the game used 40-man raids. Despite increasing graphic and computational demands of the game, there are still only so many objects to range check at a given time for a given party/raid/etc. It seems like the range-check cpu demand, if anything, would be a much, much smaller % of overall cpu usage on a server than it ever has been before.

Am i off base here? has the cpu power needed to range check increased proportionally or in greater proportion than processing power generally available on mainframes in the last decade?

even if auras were raid-wide (no idea if they are) now, the computer power issue seems to apply regardless.

I don't know specifically the answer but it wouldn't surprise me if WoW's engine wasn't able to handle the stress but I have no idea how updated and changed the engine is atm. I do think Auras and seals should still be around in some capacity.

[Tijuana]

My question is not meant to be flippant.

Computer power per dollar might be 10x? what it was in 2005, at a time when the game used 40-man raids. Despite increasing graphic and computational demands of the game, there are still only so many objects to range check at a given time for a given party/raid/etc. It seems like the range-check cpu demand, if anything, would be a much, much smaller % of overall cpu usage on a server than it ever has been before.

Am i off base here? has the cpu power needed to range check increased proportionally or in greater proportion than processing power generally available on mainframes in the last decade?

even if auras were raid-wide (no idea if they are) now, the computer power issue seems to apply regardless.

I have no doubt you are likely correct that there is increased server power available now. However, I think what they were getting at back then was that it just wasn't worth the use of the server power. I think if they were to ever bring these back, it makes more sense to simply make them an applied buff. We don't really get anything, lore-wise, from needing to be in range of them. Any range related game play created by them, is likely unwanted and would serve only as a nuisance.