I genuinely feel sorry for muslims

[ravenmoon]

Look m8y potaty this is a gaming forum not a place for any real discussion about current or polemic issues

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Im getting strong conspiracy/white supremacy vibes from this one.

I think that is a bit blind of you. Death chants to the west are applauded and encouraged by jihadist crowds and not just them, legitimate governments of countries like Iran, Syria, Jordan and not just them, people groups like the PLA - who also chant death to jews.

Sadly alot of people think the West is hated because of Israel - how naive can you get? You think they hate the west because of the only free nation in their midst? No! Firstly anti-semitism is a plague - it has no rational and it seems to be running rampant, a vocal group of people just hate jews period. It's not payback for anything, or do you think Israel invaded the middle east and oppressed its people, blew them up, stabbed them, gunned them down, raped them ? Ofc not, in fact it took a stance against them. Israel wasn't formed like most nations in the world, conquering other people and forcing them, neither was it like how Europe colonized much of the world during the slave trade era - and people are feeling guilty because anti-semitic propaganda is framing it as such and most people have not looked into the history. This is not like the colonization of Africa, nor was it by conquest war, nor was it illegal.

yet somehow, there are people here who argue against Israel because of this very misplaced sense of guilt based on misguided empathy and obscured truth. No, without Israel you will still be hated. From an Islamic point of view it is because you are an infidel. Such are all of us who do not follow the tenants of Islam, and the militaristic parts of Islam DEMAND that we convert or be destroyed in the name of allah. You are blamed for all the injustice and corruption in the world. Men sleeping with men, punishable by death, greed of the highest order, playing their people against each other. Funding their corrupt regimes, stealing the resources of their country and the livlihood of their nations so you can build fancier stuff and better weapons and keep them all suppressed.

You are blamed for everything. You are the common enemy, the infidel that must be brought in line or purged, supporting a Palestinian state or forcing Israel to accommodate one is not going to in any way lessen the hatred or resolve against you. Islam encourages and is builds hatred - or have you not noticed, it's not on the Love of God a concept and thesis absent from the Koran that has much about honour and justice but not love. Should a Palestinian state exist, you would have gained no freedom or justice for a people at all, but rather set up a terrorist run state that suppresses its own people, considers them expendable and thrives on hate, and that hatred will continue to burn towards you for setting up Israel in the first place or daring to be involved in their lands or affairs. For daring to try to dictate any terms with them. They would see it as a victory against you and press on. They do not have your mentality or your way of thinking - appeasement? "oh they'd see this and back off"

have you heard the rhetoric on the streets there? the bombs, the shootings, the stabbings, the rocket launchers - and do you think it's restricted to Israel? no, it's in Egypt, it's in Iraq, it's in France - muslims are being incited to terrorise, destroy and bring all who do not follow to heel. Hatred and not love governs.

You should be lending your support to Israel who stands against that tide in the region. Encouraging an Israeli nation that expands further, not less because they bring freedom and stability. Many of the muslims in those nations are being oppressed and forced by their own leaders. Did you know that Israelis warned very palestinian area they retaliated in to evacuate the place because they were going to bomb the places the missiles were being launched from, and as the people fled, their leaders insisted they return so as many would be killed by the Israeli counter attacks so they could fuel their propaganda and say Israel killed many of us - totally twisted, cruel and downright evil.. and these are the people you want to have a legitimate state, and you argue that Israel shouldn't defend itself from the bombs and missiles thrown at the rest of the population.

And you feel it's because they're occupying Palestinian land? You think that's why it's going on? And you agree? oh my, you need to go back to and look at your history, these groups have no leg to stand on, never had, they want mayham and the death to all jews because they've been fuelled by hatred that will not stop with the destruction of Israel, this hatred is targetted at you and it been fuelled by LIES, misinformation and hate preaching.

So should you hate all muslims? off course not, don't hate even a single one, many are victims in this, caught and forced by so called visionaries who are fuelled by rage and hatred, justice twisted completely. They feel YOU must pay for the situation the world is in, that it's all YOUR fault. Islam is vehicle and rallying point that fuels this tirade. It's more the lies than the people. The real war is fought in the minds and hearts of the people. I repeat their are many muslim people who are caught in the middle of it.

Look at the region... look at each of the so called Islamic states, look at the oppression of the people, look at the state and condition of things, where their belief system has led them, there is no joy, there is little freedom, the owrse is how severe the punishments are for not conforming. Look at how women are treated. Sure it's their culture - what right have we to interfere? Every right! r are you supposed to sit down and let that level of oppression go on forever and think they're just going to leave you peaceably. So you think that because the West has intervened, therefore we have caused this problem? How naive. Let me tell you what this islamic mindset has done - gone to war, waged war and conquered whenever it has been able to.

If you did nothing, they would grow in strength and power, gain weapons and will call a new Jihad on you simply because you were not ruled by them. This is exactly what happened to the many people groups that were swallowed up by the rampages of the past. We have a better society today, our society does not condone our forces going into a foreign land to conquer or gain territory - we do not believe in that we work against it, especially after the 2nd world war, we do not believe that our views must be forced on everyone and they must be brought to heel. We are not perfect, but we don't go down that path.

We behave altogether differently, and there is a reason we join together to stop threats. Have nations, companies, greedy men sought their own agenda and caused a lot of suffering world wide? Yes. Some of our business strategies and work has been oppressive and cruel -because that's how some people are, you have some nasty people in our world and in our society, some of them are very rich and powerful and cause havoc in nations.. but we also fight against them. We have a part of the world blaming us for all their woes, some of which yes some our people contributed to and even caused, but certainly not all

these reasons are being used by hate preachers to stir men up to violent rage, so that they will cut you down. Which is why sadly some refugees may have had their life saved by you, but will still plot to blow you up because they view you as one of the sources and reasons they are made refuge in the first place. They don't have the Christian view of gratitude and gratefulness.. but some of you would do EXACTLY the same thing if you were in their position so who are you to judge?

So do you not see? you are the same! Given that this could be you, the answer is not to destroy every muslim and ignore the plight of everyone. No, you must act to stop this nonsense, promote agents of stability and peace, support nations like Israel, fight Islamic rhetoric all round, you can't argue for Islam if you don't know it, Islam is no Christianity, part of Islam fully supports this violence, it's not an integrated unified system like christianity, so don't treat it as such and argue for parts of it, get rid of it, do not get rid of muslims. Show help and support to a person regardless of what their faith is, but be vigilant - don't trust everyone or anyone, check a person thoroughly, watch them. but don't ignore them either or hate them or stay apart from them. Speak to them, help them, get to know them. You will find out they actually are people... just like you are a person. They're complicated, have good attributes and bad ones too, and lie anywhere in the spectrum.

You don't have to accept their view points nor their belief system, but if they are in dire need, it's your belief system to help them out and show them kindness.

Finally, don't believe everything you read or you hear. but consider everything carefully, properly, do research, look in to things, if you really care and you really want to help, which is a good thing, then do so.

[Ahovv]

I feel sorry for religious people in general. If you regard a book as "holy" but then pick and choose parts of it deemed legitimate, your intelligence isn't exactly high. It's just like Christians who revere the Bible so much, but try to ignore the parts they don't like (such as stoning non-virgin wifes).

[DSRilk]

that's why i said we can agree on something! It's pretty hard to place the blame on people who probably would have naturally resolved the conflict without other nations fuelling it.

You really think it would have resolved itself and not just been another thousand years of killing each other's children?

[Dragoncurry]

I'm sorry but I have read big chunks (many hadith if I remember correctly), I wasn't looking in specific places just randomly browsing, and on almost every page you could find at least an allusion to infidels going to hell or deserving death or something offensive to a western civilization. Didn't look like an history book at all.

And I'll add that it was extremely repetitive and boring. Like a poor imitation of the bible (I don't have much esteem for the bible and the old testament in particular which is almost (not really who am I kidding) as violent as the quran.

I don't know if I should call out your bullshit now or later. Hadith aren't in the Qur'an. So what you're stating you did is not possible.

Also, the old testament isn't as violent? HAHAHAHHAA. This is why we need God. So I can say, "dear lord save me, this man can barely read the newspaper, and he's talking about reading a text hundreds of pages long"

[Slant]

Germany has next to no resources.

Well, at that time we had a lot of coal and iron and fertile soil. We do have resources, there's more in the ground than just oil.

[Dragoncurry]

Either you are incorrect and it IS just your personal view (versus some universal law) or you're meaning that you don't think that killing another human being is the most terrible thing someone can do. I'm not sure which you're getting at.

I'm implying it's a universal law.

[Deleted]

Well the thing with invading and occupying countries is that people seem to believe you own them

Germany was a number of ministates and sufferd from invasion time and time again from all sides for the first time in her history germany is surounded by
allies.

[Combatbutler]

It has coal and iron.

Which is important how? Iron deposits are very small and coal is far from rare. Let me rephrase it, Germany has no relevant resources.

[Deleted]

Which is important how? Iron deposits are very small and coal is far from rare. Let me rephrase it, Germany has no relevant resources.

During the industrial revolution it was.

[Hraklea]

That's not how religion works in the real world, no. In the real world, a religion is a set of one or more books or oral traditions that lay out a set of stories and rules. People then follow the parts that feel right to them and discard the parts that don't. It's how you have Christians who believes that science trumps the Bible alongside Christians who believe that science that doesn't match their reading of the Bible is just a trick to test your faith.

That's not following a religion, that's called being a hypocrite. "I'm a catholic, but I don't agree with catholicism".

As stated before, just because people call themselves a member of a religion, it doesn't mean they actually are. You can't change the meaning of a word just to feel better about yourself.

[DSRilk]

al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."

Really I am not going to argue with you if you think Homosexuality isn't punishable by death in all of the Abrahamic religions. Killing is in their very fucking core. Kill the infidels, Kill the gays, kill the christians, kill the jews, kill these people, kill those people.

Keep in mind that there are plenty of places at least in the Christian Bible that say people should be forgiven, which many people take to trump the old-school orders of "death to <insert group here>".

[GennGreymane]

I call it if they can't control their own, Fuck em.

Tell white boy numbers 1-10 to stop shooting up schools please.

[Hraklea]

Yes they do, and do you know why they don't receive it?

I do, but something tells me that you're going to tell me anyway, so go ahead.

[Deleted]

Tell white boy numbers 1-10 to stop shooting up schools please.

They would have to up their numeber thousend fold to come even close to the death toll of black innner city youth .X

[Ahovv]

Keep in mind that there are plenty of places at least in the Christian Bible that say people should be forgiven, which many people take to trump the old-school orders of "death to <insert group here>".

Which is one reason it's hard to take religion (Christianity included) seriously. They like to pick and choose passages from their "holy" book.

[Dragoncurry]

I do, but something tells me that you're going to tell me anyway, so go ahead.

Nah, as long as you know, we good.

[Combatbutler]

Well, at that time we had a lot of coal and iron and fertile soil. We do have resources, there's more in the ground than just oil.

It wasn't the reason why Germany was rebuilt to such an extent though, the only reason it received the help it did was because it became a glorified meat shield, to stall the Russians, should they try to march west.

[Deleted]

I don't know if I should call out your bullshit now or later. Hadith aren't in the Qur'an. So what you're stating you did is not possible.

Also, the old testament isn't as violent? HAHAHAHHAA. This is why we need God. So I can say, "dear lord save me, this man can barely read the newspaper, and he's talking about reading a text hundreds of pages long"

It's funny you were faster than my edit. Yes I used the wrong word, I obviously meant surahs not hadith. All I read was the Quran, didn't touch any of the interpretations with a 10 feet pole, yet I came out shocked. The Quran IS a violent book and it IS advocation violence. It's impossible to say otherwise if you have opened it really.

People keep telling you over and over again that Islam has nothing to do with violence, and that it tolerates freedom of cult. I'm sure many muslims do tolerate, but then they are taking BIG liberties with Islam.

[Hraklea]

Keep in mind that there are plenty of places at least in the Christian Bible that say people should be forgiven, which many people take to trump the old-school orders of "death to <insert group here>".

And yet, you're sent to hell if you don't accept Jesus as your savior. Nice sense of forgiveness.

[Slant]

Which is important how? Iron deposits are very small and coal is far from rare. Let me rephrase it, Germany has no relevant resources.

Not anymore, but back in the 20th century, we had resources that were only equalled by England's coal and ore mines in Europe. In a time where distance was an actual factor to logistics, Germany was quite a big number in those. The fact that we don't have them anymore probably says more about how much we used them up as about how little there were to begin with.

As for the lack of historical knowledge, the allied forces made it a point to not deplete German resources as retaliation after WW2. They learned the harsh lesson with the Versailles contracts and chose to go a different route wth Germany after WW2, ie encouraging a young democracy into being part of the world community instead of the pariah everyone hates. Making peace with the US was rather easy, considering the circumstances and the actual guilt (which was a shitload higher than for WW1) of the war.