UnitedHealth Group May Leave Obamacare Exchanges By 2017

[Notchris]

It runs the VA and medicare quite well actually.

I'm for a nationalized heathcare, but in regards to the VA, no they do not run it well. At all. Not at fucking all.

[Vyxn]

I'm for a nationalized heathcare, but in regards to the VA, no they do not run it well. At all. Not at fucking all.

so what makes you think Washington can run nationalized health care if they cant get the VA right?

it would be the same as thinking a babysitter that cant take care of two kids will be able to take care of a hundred kids

[Deathquoi]

I realised I didn't answer your question with my earlier reply.

What the US needs to do, if it wants a single payer system, is to reduce the input of politicians to nothing more than voting on options.

Set up an independent body of professionals with experience of running a ntionalised healthcare system. Ask them to come up with a few differents schemes, each budgeted, then the Senate or whoever is responsible, votes on implementing one of those schemes, but they can't change bits of them, they cant add bits, nothing.

Don't let the politicians get involved in the nitty gritty, leave that to the experts, just allow them the overall decision on which scheme they want.

This betrays a gross lack of understanding of the political system in the US. How does the push for single payer actually become a thing without politicians introducing it?

[I Push Buttons]

so what makes you think Washington can run nationalized health care if they cant get the VA right?

it would be the same as thinking a babysitter that cant take care of two kids will be able to take care of a hundred kids

Well when you take the combined medicare, medicaid, health subsidies, health and human services, etc., budget of the US government, upwards of $800,000,000,000 to $1,000,000,000,000... And are negotiating on behalf of 320,000,000 people... You can probably get a pretty substantially better deal compared to a 6,600,000 person subset of that which operates on an already meager budget that constantly gets cut even more...

[Vyxn]

Well when you take the combined medicare, medicaid, health subsidies, health and human services, etc., budget of the US government, upwards of $800,000,000,000 to $1,000,000,000,000... And are negotiating on behalf of 320,000,000 people... You can probably get a pretty substantially better deal compared to a 6,600,000 person subset of that which operates on an already meager budget that constantly gets cut even more...

so you think money fixes all
just throw more money at it is a liberals favorite mantra
we spend more money per student on primary education then any one else but we continue to score much less then countries that spend a hell of a lot less then we do

[alexw]

so what makes you think Washington can run nationalized health care if they cant get the VA right?

Because every other first-world government can.

[araine]

clear cut evidence that we MUST move to a true public healthcare system. the for profit system is broken beyond repair

[Deleted]

so you think money fixes all
just throw more money at it is a liberals favorite mantra
we spend more money per student on primary education then any one else but we continue to score much less then countries that spend a hell of a lot less then we do

the same people that complain about it are the same ones blocking reform

[Tinykong]

Has anyone seen the insurance on the exchanges? I took a napkin math glance during open enrollment in my state, and HSA insurance with a $6500 deductible was ~$200 a month.

At that price, I'd just pay the fine.

[araine]

so what makes you think Washington can run nationalized health care if they cant get the VA right?

it would be the same as thinking a babysitter that cant take care of two kids will be able to take care of a hundred kids

Every other developed country in the world are running a successful system that is miles and miles better than the disaster we have with for profit system in USA. really that will be very easy to fix if thats all you are concerned about. really easy fix just copy and paste and voila we got something that is like a thousand times better for EVERYONE.

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Has anyone seen the insurance on the exchanges? I took a napkin math glance during open enrollment in my state, and HSA insurance with a $6500 deductible was ~$200 a month.

At that price, I'd just pay the fine.

Thats why public healthcare is better and more affordable for everyone.

[I Push Buttons]

so you think money fixes all
just throw more money at it is a liberals favorite mantra

Well the money is already being thrown at it. Only it is done so about as inefficiently as possible.

The US spends about $4 trillion on medical expenses annually... The government is already paying about 25% of that (~60% medicare, ~40% medicaid). You don't think a single party negotiating on behalf of everyone can get a better deal on that other 75%?

Hell a better deal on the 25% too since the prices of the 75% influence, if not outright determine the cost of what the government is already paying.

[Vyxn]

Every other developed country in the world are running a successful system that is miles and miles better than the disaster we have with for profit system in USA. really that will be very easy to fix if thats all you are concerned about. really easy fix just copy and paste and voila we got something that is like a thousand times better for EVERYONE.

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Thats why public healthcare is better and more affordable for everyone.

and we aren't like every other nation out there and why almost every other nation looks up to and tries emulate us or immigrate here
we have become one of the greatest nations ever it wasn't because we tried to be like other nations
If I want America to be like every other nation I would move to any of those other nations
and I have heard the bull crap that other nations health care is better and that is bull shit because they are judging accessibility and affordability as the matrix not results the survival rates for things like cancer and heart dieses is much higher in the US then places with socialized medicine
It is like claiming the old VW beetle is the best car because it was cheap and accessible

[I Push Buttons]

and we aren't like every other nation out there and why almost every other nation looks up to and tries emulate us or immigrate here
we have become one of the greatest nations ever it wasn't because we tried to be like other nations
If I want America to be like every other nation I would move to any of those other nations
and I have heard the bull crap that other nations health care is better and that is bull shit because they are judging accessibility and affordability not results
It is like claiming a the old VW beetle is the best car because it was cheap and accessible

Preach brother! It is our profiteering at the expense of the sick and injured and letting poor people who can't afford medicine die that makes us exceptional!

[Kalis]

This betrays a gross lack of understanding of the political system in the US. How does the push for single payer actually become a thing without politicians introducing it?

I didn't say politicians don't introduce it, you'd need them to authorise the initial process.

[Cthulhu 2020]

so you think money fixes all
just throw more money at it is a liberals favorite mantra
we spend more money per student on primary education then any one else but we continue to score much less then countries that spend a hell of a lot less then we do

So what do we throw at doctors to get them to see veterans, instead of money?

How would you propose we digitize the VA logs, aside from hiring people to enter them on computers?

If you have some friends that would be willing to do stuff for the VA for free then you need to tell them to get on it.

[alexw]

and we aren't like every other nation out there and why almost every other nation looks up to and tries emulate us or immigrate here
we have become one of the greatest nations ever it wasn't because we tried to be like other nations
If I want America to be like every other nation I would move to any of those other nations
and I have heard the bull crap that other nations health care is better and that is bull shit because they are judging accessibility and affordability as the matrix not results the survival rates for things like cancer and heart dieses is much higher in the US then places with socialized medicine
It is like claiming the old VW beetle is the best car because it was cheap and accessible

The US does not have to become like every other nation. Some things they do do better however, and one of those is healthcare. Don't you think it's mighty dumb to consciously choose to have the worst developed world healthcare system in the world?

P.S. Appealing to American exceptionalism doesn't win you arguments.

[Kalis]

and we aren't like every other nation out there and why almost every other nation looks up to and tries emulate us or immigrate here
we have become one of the greatest nations ever it wasn't because we tried to be like other nations
If I want America to be like every other nation I would move to any of those other nations
and I have heard the bull crap that other nations health care is better and that is bull shit because they are judging accessibility and affordability as the matrix not results the survival rates for things like cancer and heart dieses is much higher in the US then places with socialized medicine
It is like claiming the old VW beetle is the best car because it was cheap and accessible

America has deliberately emulated both Rome and Britain, it hasn't even been subtle about it.

Where America gained its lead was from being in a position to implement good ideas, whether they came from home or abroad, not sticking its head up its arse and whistling Dixie.

[Theinquisition]

That's an issue when you have an opposition party that has no interest in creating a single payer system, so would try to scupper everything.

Perhaps that scheme in Colorado will be an incentive for the whole nation and they do it state-by-state, regional government usually has more incentive to limit budget bloat. Obviously it will take decades before they all do it, but you've got to start somewhere.

That's not really true brother, the VA is generally supported by both parties (internal squabbling aside), but run very inefficiently, just because the gov't runs something doesn't mean that its going to be successful. There is no economic incentive for the gov't to run things effectively, and when there is, top management officials lie or fabricate information to get bonuses (as is the case at the Phoenix VA, the VA I go to) while patients go without care.

If the gov't can't be trusted to run the single payer system in place, why would it be a good idea to run it on a national scale?

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Well when you take the combined medicare, medicaid, health subsidies, health and human services, etc., budget of the US government, upwards of $800,000,000,000 to $1,000,000,000,000... And are negotiating on behalf of 320,000,000 people... You can probably get a pretty substantially better deal compared to a 6,600,000 person subset of that which operates on an already meager budget that constantly gets cut even more...

Throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily fix it.

[Deleted]

That's not really true brother, the VA is generally supported by both parties (internal squabbling aside), but run very inefficiently, just because the gov't runs something doesn't mean that its going to be successful. There is no economic incentive for the gov't to run things effectively, and when there is, top management officials lie or fabricate information to get bonuses (as is the case at the Phoenix VA, the VA I go to) while patients go without care.

If the gov't can't be trusted to run the single payer system in place, why would it be a good idea to run it on a national scale?

there is no economic incentive of a healthy work force??

[Kalis]

That's not really true brother, the VA is generally supported by both parties (internal squabbling aside), but run very inefficiently, just because the gov't runs something doesn't mean that its going to be successful. There is no economic incentive for the gov't to run things effectively, and when there is, top management officials lie or fabricate information to get bonuses (as is the case at the Phoenix VA, the VA I go to) while patients go without care.

If the gov't can't be trusted to run the single payer system in place, why would it be a good idea to run it on a national scale?

Why is it run inefficiently though? Americans are no more or less efficient than anyone else in the West, so is the problem political? Lack of oversight? Lack of people in power caring about how it's run? Why haven't they headhunted someone with experience of nationalised healthcare to run it?