[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[OrcsRLame]

Well, we're not up to Mannoroth (we only killed Velhari last night), but in the interest of providing data:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...jYd4f8#fight=1
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...vyLPTB#fight=7

I'm Camaeris. Second night, I had another Ret with me, Vemros. He's solid, but a month ago I could keep up with him despite a 10 iLevel deficit between us, which tells me right off the bat that I need to respec to Execution Sentence post haste for most fights, as I've since caught up to him in gear. If you armory me you'll see I have a significant weapon advantage on him now, but that literally happened less than twelve hours ago on our kill.

Observations and impressions:

• The rotation *almost* feels bearable when procs are flowing, which doesn't happen often enough. Target switching is painful.
• Shield of Vengeance is inadequate as a defensive tool, it's more another attack with some absorption tagged on.
• The heal from Justicar's Vengeance is real and is more useful defensively than SoV is - as long as you live to use it, of course.
• Greater Blessing of Might will cause trouble in some guilds. Mine is pretty chill, but there are already jokes floating around about what's the going rate to bribe a Ret for Might. I've worked with raiders who would be actively offended not getting picked.
• I used Holy Wrath on our last two Velhari pulls. I felt dirty, but I'm not going to deny seeing 600K hits pop up is kind of satisfying.
• The big hits we can put out are similarly satisfying - but then you see that your overall DPS is still cruddy. It's not enough.
• Not being able to spec for AoE and priority/single target simultaneously likewise feels cruddy. It doesn't help that Zeal still isn't stacking our Libram.
• Blinding Light doing almost as much damage as Divine Storm baseline is laughable (18.5K vs 19.5K on my character sheet, wider gap in-raid but still laughably close).
• Blessing of Protection working on everyone, even tanks, is awesome. Losing Sac doesn't hurt quite as much with this change. However the long cooldown and the fact that it only helps against physical damage are both hefty strikes against it.
• Not losing damage for popping Divine Shield is also pretty awesome. We still need a short-CD defensive tool, even with Divine Intervention, though.
• Mobility makes me want to punch a baby, preferably Kalgan. Getting to trash just as everything dies is not cool. Losing a chunk of your prepot because you're waddling into combat and have to save your one ranged ability for after you've built up HoPo is not cool.

I was discussing with several guildies last night, Ret feels half-finished to me. If this was Alpha or early Beta, I'd say we were on track and just need a couple of tweaks - improved SoV or the return of Divine Protection, Pursuit of Justice baseline (or maybe Seal of Light activated by *any other* holy power spender instead of consuming its own HoPo - or baseline Pursuit of Justice, I'd take that, too), folding Justicar's Vengeance into Final Verdict. Greater Blessings should be D3 Laws instead - mild passive benefit to the Ret 24/7, decent AoE buff when activated. Divine Storm is pathetic and needs revision. I wouldn't mind EDS returning but I liked FV/DS weaving for cleave and AoE if we aren't allowed to have strong on-demand AoE. But as a spec in live release with the track record Blizzard has... well...

Legion Ret: So bad that even Tirion Fordring is rerolling.

It's interesting that you think SoV is useless. I got the opposite impression, that in pve it's the strongest defensive in the game. For me, it fully held through 3 Overwhelming Chaos on mythic Xhul, and most times I popped it it ended up timing out even if I hit it during a high AoE damage phase.

From what I've looked at on logs, there's a lot of talent setups that are very close to each other single target. Among the top 6 on Fel Lord I saw ES, FV, BoW, VB, DP and Crusade all get use. Obviously there's going to be one setup that's mathematically superior, but anecdotally, it looks to me like the difference is very very tiny.

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I'm not too sure holding judgment is the way to go. If you judge, BoW, CS going in and then TV you're still building while judge comes back up. So, yes, you lose one finisher (unless you're using DP and get a proc) but you don't lose globals going in to the boss.



:P

Or just do what I do and hump the boss's aggro range and use CS within the first half second. ^_^

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thanks for sharing your logs. Already found a couple of things I could do better. Sadly I´m not the Frodo in our raid so I do have to react on the ring and can´t plan (consistency is unknown to our raid-hobbit) for it... So no use toying with Crusade for me.

But if I read your logs correctly you basically give a wet fart about aoeing and just go single target with the odd DS. How do your stats look at the moment?

Well, most fights I feel like there's not much of a reason to AoE as ret. HFA, Xhul, Iskar and Manny. Every other boss is single target enough that I wouldn't consider trying to cleave. This is just my opinion of course, and maybe it's better to just go single target on those as well, but with slower Holy Power gen due to no Ashes to Ashes and no Liadrin's Fury Unleashed, our AoE is going to be very weak. Our best AoE talents all gimp our HP generation which means less Divine Storms. Not to mention we get multiple artifact traits that buff DS. I was basically only using DS when there were so many targets I knew it had to be a dps increase, Korm hands, Xhul Imp spawns, etc. I will admit though that on Iskar I was more concerned with killing the shadow add in time, and in last add phase I walked up to the edge to make sure ring hit boss, so I spent the whole last phase just judging the boss.

[Redblade]

Or just do what I do and hump the boss's aggro range and use CS within the first half second. ^_^

That is obviously one option but from a more general discussion standpoint I don't think there is that much to lose on going in with judge.

[OrcsRLame]

That is obviously one option but from a more general discussion standpoint I don't think there is that much to lose on going in with judge.

You're right of course, I'm just being a cunt.

[Deleted]

Have you guys tested The blessings of might?

I have ran 3 on the top 3 dps of my raid and the actual percentage it benefits me on the logs is between 2 and 5% of my damage. It's not nearly as strong as we would like or expected (9%)... or simply doesn't scale as well as the rest of our damage.

[Kabsal]

Have you guys tested The blessings of might?

I have ran 3 on the top 3 dps of my raid and the actual percentage it benefits me on the logs is between 2 and 5% of my damage. It's not nearly as strong as we would like or expected (9%)... or simply doesn't scale as well as the rest of our damage.

Sounds like that's either a bug with either the spell itself or with the logging. It's pretty easy to see that a single blessing, if it does what it says on the tin, should be on average a 3% damage increase to the target. Thus, 3 blessings should be 9% of a single raider's dps (assuming, of course, that all raiders do the same base damage). Anything substantially less implies either the blessings didn't all work as promised or the logging got it wrong.

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On second thought, did the players you put blessings on happen to be pet classes? If a class gets, say, a third of their damage from pets, then a GBoM will only give them approximately a 2% damage increase instead of 3%, since GBoM doesn't proc for any damage done by pets.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Now this is adorable:


Law and Order should work with Blade of Wrath in the next build you guys get. In most situations Honor Talents should work with replacement spells, but in this case we didn't feel that Law and Order should cause Divine Hammer to apply Hand of Hindrance.

[Snegovik]

Hey guys a quick question, can some1 give me a name of a good addon for DP procs alerts? Since usually procs would light up in golden frames for me before, now for some reason that is gone, so when I get DP proc I simply get a small icon on my buff bar that’s all….Can some1 suggest how to turn that “golden frame” on my TV or JV back on when DP proc is active or an addon that pops out “DP has PROCKED!” notification lol? Since I found myself not noticing my DP procs right away asp when fighting mages, who are blinking all over the map. Thx in advance

[Kabsal]

That would be an easy use of WeakAuras2. I recommend spending a few minutes figuring out how to make custom alerts using it since (a) you'll build ones that are more to your own liking and (b) have less risk from running sketchy internet scripts.

[Snegovik]

That would be an easy use of WeakAuras2. I recommend spending a few minutes figuring out how to make custom alerts using it since (a) you'll build ones that are more to your own liking and (b) have less risk from running sketchy internet scripts.

Thank you, greatly appreciate the advise.

[Deleted]

Is it possible to restore that golden frame from the procc alert on the action bar via WA? It is quite annoying that they didn't add that while nearly every other procc still has it.

It's possible, but since I can't recall where exactly the options is found, I just quote a reddit post (it should be accurate):

Go to a weak aura you've created then under the Actions tab there's a checkbox for "Button Glow" under both the On Show and On Hide sections. Then set the Glow Action to show/hide depending on what you want, and then choose a frame that should glow.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...effect/d0lauu1

[Deleted]

Hello Internet Friends! (yes watched his hilarious 2nd vid again)
Yesterday id did a bit of dummy bashing with with my well balanced paladin (742) and my warlock(721). Guess what even with a now working UI and unwanted cleaving my paladin pulled ahead of my (demo/destro)wl just barely with 51k dps to 47k dps. both with out using any kind of cds over 5 minutes^^
And I get the same picture while leveling on the beta (both chars premade) paladinone mob at a time and pray not to pull anything while on the wl i just sit there "oh pulled 2 more mobs, LOLstorm ho!"

Totally missed yesterdays hotfix notes and guess what no paladin fixes! I´m not aware of any holy or prot mechanic bugs so I would assume they might have found the time to fix our issues. But again the middle finger ... judgement chaining error is 2 weeks old now so that one might not be the highest priority, i can understand that. But the greasy blessings falling of randomly is as old as the talent is in the game... which is just since alpha release If I´m not mistaken...

[Teleros]

Law and Order should work with Blade of Wrath in the next build you guys get. In most situations Honor Talents should work with replacement spells, but in this case we didn't feel that Law and Order should cause Divine Hammer to apply Hand of Hindrance.

Be fair Storm: giving Ret an AE snare would be completely OP for a class with such poor mobility.

I'm frankly astonished you could even complain about such a thing, being such a sensible, reasonable, Kalgan-loving fellow.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Be fair Storm: giving Ret an AE snare would be completely OP for a class with such poor mobility.

I'm frankly astonished you could even complain about such a thing, being such a sensible, reasonable, Kalgan-loving fellow.

How COULD you say we have poor mobility??

It's balanced and in perfect harmony with our #fantasy.

[ruiizu]

How COULD you say we have poor mobility??

It's balanced and in perfect harmony with our #fantasy.

I actually make a post regarding the fact that adding Divine Hammer to Law and Order might occasionally make it a viable PvP choice. It simply isn't right now (and they could also just make the "first hit" of Divine Hammer slow, because that coding already clearly exists as Divine Hammer only generates Holy Power the first time it deals damage per use).

[Saradain]

Greater Blessing of Might damage does not seem to display correctly with Skada, anyone else experienced the same? Or am I missing something, because it does not show up as my damage when I buff others and they do damage with it, it shows in their DPS only.

[Anardel]

It's funny, I read the Spanish class forums (I'm Spanish) and it's full of threads of people raging about ret, mostly about our mobility, survival, damage and gameplay. Too bad the Spanish community doesn't matter to Blizz. I didn't read the other country's forums but I bet German, French etc, are full of rage too.

[Teleros]

Greater Blessing of Might damage does not seem to display correctly with Skada, anyone else experienced the same?

Lots of people have reported the same, but Warcraftlogs.com etc show it as the Ret's damage.

= + =

I didn't read the other country's forums but I bet German, French etc, are full of rage too.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

[Saradain]

Lots of people have reported the same, but Warcraftlogs.com etc show it as the Ret's damage.

I suppose that'll work out better for the raiders, but I'm an LFR hero for now, would've been nice and interesting to see it work properly for everyone, as useless information as it might be

[Deleted]

Sounds like that's either a bug with either the spell itself or with the logging. It's pretty easy to see that a single blessing, if it does what it says on the tin, should be on average a 3% damage increase to the target. Thus, 3 blessings should be 9% of a single raider's dps (assuming, of course, that all raiders do the same base damage). Anything substantially less implies either the blessings didn't all work as promised or the logging got it wrong.

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On second thought, did the players you put blessings on happen to be pet classes? If a class gets, say, a third of their damage from pets, then a GBoM will only give them approximately a 2% damage increase instead of 3%, since GBoM doesn't proc for any damage done by pets.

On the latest skada i could see blessing of might beeing procced from their pets. But i can try different classes next time (it was a warlock and an unholy DK most of the time, then either a mage or a moonkin). Unfortunely thats not until next week. Though i can try an LFR i suppose.

[Morally Grey Storm]

It's funny, I read the Spanish class forums (I'm Spanish) and it's full of threads of people raging about ret, mostly about our mobility, survival, damage and gameplay. Too bad the Spanish community doesn't matter to Blizz. I didn't read the other country's forums but I bet German, French etc, are full of rage too.

Trust me, you wouldn't like in the slightest what you would see on the forums of Motherland.