[Balance] Legion Discussion

[huth]

Where did you hear that the GCD from SS and AP builders are going away?

They = the bracers. Not Blizzard.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure if i'm doing the right rotation with ED i cast 3 SS when i get to 90+ or more AP and try to get a fourth if i have the AP when weave SW and LS to get back to 90+ AP then so on and so on and use Moon when it get it three stacks. Is this right? If not please let me know.

I found this form the other balance druid thread, and thought this would give you good idea what to do with the ED.

The general rotation is:

• Get to >90 AP,
• Cast as many 20 AP Starsurges as you can before you run out of AP
• Refresh any dots that need it
• Build back up to >90 AP (casting Moon spells if available, especially Full Moon)
• Repeat

The goal is to maximize the number of 20 AP Starsurges by casting other spells during the 3 second window of the buff to get back some AP.

At your haste level, 4309, the only thing you can fit between Starsurges is New Moon or Solar Wrath. So you should do that. Build up to >90 AP, then cycle SS SW until you run out of AP.

If you started at 100 AP, it would look like this (sub in New Moon for one of the SW if it is up):

Spell             SS SW SS SW SS SW SS SW SS SW SS
AP after spell    60 70 40 50 30 40 20 30 10 20  0

That's 6 Starsurges, 4 of which are 20 AP. Better than nothing! Once you get two stacks of the buff you essentially lose 10 AP per Starsurge (-20 from the SS +10 from the SW). You waste some Lunar Empowerments, but it is worth it to cast 20 AP Starsurges.

You should really try to get at least up to 5417, which gives you enough haste to cast Half Moon or a Starlord-buffed Lunar Strike during the buff. This lets you Starsurge weave a good bit longer:

Spell             SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS LS SS
AP after spell    60 75 45 60 40 55 35 50 30 45 25 40 20 35 15 30 10 25  5 20  0

Now you can last for 11 Starsurges and you are only losing 5 AP per Starsurge once you get 2 stacks of the buff. You are wasting Solar Empowerments, but it is still worth it.

Once you hit the 9750 breakpoint, you can cast 2 Starlord-buffed Solar Wraths between Starsurges. Now you can cycle SS LS SS SW SW (wouldn't have enough Solar Empowerments to just cycle SS SW SW). Sub New Moon in for a SW and Half Moon for a LS.

Spell             SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS LS SS SW SW SS
AP after spell    60 75 45 55 65 45 60 40 50 60 40 55 35 45 55 35 50 30 40 50 30 45 25 35 45 25 40 20 30 40 20 35 15 25 35 15 30 10 20 30 10 25  5 15 25  5 20  0 10 20  0

This gives you as many as 21 Starsurges before you run out of AP (though you will need to cut it short to cast Full Moon before you reach that many). You are only losing 2.5 AP per Starsurge once you have two stacks of the buff: (-20 +15 -20 +10 +10) / 2 = -2.5. With this scheme you are also wasting much fewer Empowerments (no Solar Empowerments are wasted and only every other Lunar Empowerment is wasted once it gets going).

During Heroism you will be able to cast more spells between Starsurges. At your haste level, you should be able to cycle SS LS SS SW SW during Hero. This will actually be a net gain in AP if you also have Incarnation up ((-20 + 22.5 -20 +15 +15) / 2 = 12.5 AP gained per SS). So cast extra SS as needed to avoid capping AP and dump all your AP before Incarnation ends.

[dami1337]

4. talents you can change in the simulate window. after you import your char you will see smth like "talents=wowhead/blablabla". delete the www part and just type your talents. eg: 1231231, means talent 1 from tier 1, talent 2 from tier 2, talent 3 from tier 3, talent 1 from tier 4 etc. change that and sim again
5. imho for M+ you should sim for patchwerk or lightmovement(more realistic) and replace boss with heroic mob, increasing the count from 1 to 3 mobs.

Thanks for that, will try it out. Would be great if there could be more replies towards the excel overview below

i.imgur.com/ZfFtbCM.png?1(edited)

1. ST / 3-MT / HAC
- ST = Single Target
- What is the difference between 3-MT and HAC?
- which one is most of the time relevant for M+?
- ST (besides some encountars) should be mainly for Emerald?

2. sotf/bota/nb 330000
- I assume it´s the simmed result for the weights + talents
- does this mean that that the highest DPS amount also provides roughly an idea which talent+weights are preferable for the situation?
- e.g. is in a 3-MT situation, you should NOT take inc/bota/foe whilst you should go for sotf/ss/sd?

3. summary at the end is the "best" allround weighting?

[Hellshout]

Thanks for that, will try it out. Would be great if there could be more replies towards the excel overview below

i.imgur.com/ZfFtbCM.png?1(edited)

1. ST / 3-MT / HAC
- ST = Single Target
- What is the difference between 3-MT and HAC?
- which one is most of the time relevant for M+?
- ST (besides some encountars) should be mainly for Emerald?

2. sotf/bota/nb 330000
- I assume it´s the simmed result for the weights + talents
- does this mean that that the highest DPS amount also provides roughly an idea which talent+weights are preferable for the situation?
- e.g. is in a 3-MT situation, you should NOT take inc/bota/foe whilst you should go for sotf/ss/sd?

3. summary at the end is the "best" allround weighting?

Got it I think

1.
-3MT = three multi targets, you can select in simcraft like I told you in point 5
HAC = hectic add cleave. Go to simcraft and just mouseover the type of fight in options. You have explanations there(patchwerk is by default)
Difference is 3MT is always having 3 targets up, like dragons for example
HAC is a very messed up mode, with target switching, moving and etc.

-3MT is more realistic for M+

-Imho, ST should be used only for patchwerk targets. On all the bosses there is a little movement or target switching. (or if you don't care about adds or healers will protect you from Cenarius' reflect, use ST).

2.
-330k is the sim result for those talents yes.
-yes
-yes, unless you know you will be on the boss a lot more than target switching.
For example, if your group pulls 2-3 mobs only, maybe a more ST approach would be better. If your group can handle 10 mobs at a time, then a full on AoE approach is better.
I for one would use sotf/ss/nb for a smaller pack(especially for huge hp adds), so my dots go to infinity, but still can do faster SFalls while spamming LS.

3. most likely, it's an average of some sort. Not a lot of fights are so HAC, especially if the adds die fast, no reason to switch and lose dmg on main target.


You should sim your own gear and build in patch, multi target, movement, hac scenarios.
Nevertheless, from what I've seen, single target versa and crit are better than haste and in aoe, haste is the king.

[xpose]

I'm not sure if i'm doing the right rotation with ED i cast 3 SS when i get to 90+ or more AP and try to get a fourth if i have the AP when weave SW and LS to get back to 90+ AP then so on and so on and use Moon when it get it three stacks. Is this right? If not please let me know.

Get enough haste (30-35%) so you can cast SW twice during the ED buff <--should be your main goal


Rotation with haste at break point

Get up to 90 AsP using Moons and SW/LS

Now spell weave SS with empowered SW/LS so you keep the buff as long as possible

Ex:

90 AsP

SS > LS > SS > SW SW > SS > LS > SS > SW SW > SS > LS > SS > SW SW ect... until reset <- very basic rotation


Only time you should spam multiple SS in a row is during INC/BL to avoid capping AsP


If you don't have the haste break point then you basically just weave single spells instead of double SW you do single SW

- - - Updated - - -

Every class has defensive traits. The selfheal might need a look at, though.

Ok, everyone has a defensive trait. How does that address the fact that its a terrible?

[huth]

Ok, everyone has a defensive trait. How does that address the fact that its a terrible?

Until you show how it is in fact terrible, that's just an unsubstantiated claim. Being defensive alone doesn't make it terrible, and it's better than some other classes defensive traits.

[Lucrece]

The traits are pretty bad. Extra armor (pretty weak in most circumstances), and an extra instant cast weak heal. Better than the other garbage ones is highly a standard to shoot for. Demonhunter has a 12% mgic damage intake reduction. My demo warlock has got a 30 sec cd reduction on a main defensive cd and a steroid to the damage split soul link already provides. Affliction massively increases self healing, and destro also gives them cd reduction. DK ice in your veins makes their defensive cd give them a full health bar back.

There's absolutely justification for wanting those weak defensive traits improved.

[Mursy]

Get enough haste (30-35%) so you can cast SW twice during the ED buff <--should be your main goal


Rotation with haste at break point

Get up to 90 AsP using Moons and SW/LS

Now spell weave SS with empowered SW/LS so you keep the buff as long as possible

Ex:

90 AsP

SS > LS > SS > SW SW > SS > LS > SS > SW SW > SS > LS > SS > SW SW ect... until reset <- very basic rotation


Only time you should spam multiple SS in a row is during INC/BL to avoid capping AsP


If you don't have the haste break point then you basically just weave single spells instead of double SW you do single SW

- - - Updated - - -



Ok, everyone has a defensive trait. How does that address the fact that its a terrible?

I have 10,458 Haste and i just cant get the 2 SW off in time i think it might me my MS which is 93-97 because sometime i do get the 2 SW off and sometimes i don't. Just to be sure i want to get the 2 SW off before the Buff falls off right?

Even when i take off my Legendary belt and put on a belt with haste i have 11.129 haste and i get the 2 SW of in time but is it worth it?

This is all with Food buff by the way.

[huth]

The traits are pretty bad. Extra armor (pretty weak in most circumstances), and an extra instant cast weak heal. Better than the other garbage ones is highly a standard to shoot for. Demonhunter has a 12% mgic damage intake reduction. My demo warlock has got a 30 sec cd reduction on a main defensive cd and a steroid to the damage split soul link already provides. Affliction massively increases self healing, and destro also gives them cd reduction. DK ice in your veins makes their defensive cd give them a full health bar back.

There's absolutely justification for wanting those weak defensive traits improved.

It's perfectly in line with the majority of them, which are somewhere around 6% damage reduction to either one type(i.e. physical or magical) or with some other limitation. The absolute worst for raids would probably be Subtlety, which get 25% dodge... so it does absolutely nothing most of the time.

There's actually quite a bit of physical damage going around this expansion, too. Moonkin armor is quite noticeable on Guarm, for one.

Besides, i already said the heal has issues.

[xpose]

I have 10,458 Haste and i just cant get the 2 SW off in time i think it might me my MS which is 93-97 because sometime i do get the 2 SW off and sometimes i don't. Just to be sure i want to get the 2 SW off before the Buff falls off right?

Even when i take off my Legendary belt and put on a belt with haste i have 11.129 haste and i get the 2 SW of in time but is it worth it?

This is all with Food buff by the way.

Yes, its a very big dps increase. once you have ED your main goal is to carry enough haste to hit that breakpoint and not to lose it even if it means losing an upgrade.

[Mariusqk]

Currently pulling 305k average damage on Ursoc. Dont have logs for most recent fight.
My charname on battle.net is Mariusq. Cant link due to the fact that I am new here.
Using SL, Inc, BoTA and NB. I know its hard to give precise input, but do you guys have any idea on what I can do in general to improve?

[SpamHealzu]

impossible to say without logs as we cannot adequately determine:

1) dot uptime
2) starsurge to empowered AP generators

Currently armory has you in resto gear so even harder to make determinations from that angle. Most likely your issue is one of the two from above and then not planning movement correctly for cacophany/charge knockback.

[Myztikrice]

Plan movement correctly, there is always a miasma a couple seconds after cacophany, build ap if soaking charge so you can starsurge/refresh dots in the air

for mythic, save but don't cap empowered lunar strikes to hit add, delay using full moon until add comes out and you can hit both

get a dps legendary

[cujoe]

get a dps legendary

Best advice right here. If you had bad luck with legendaries, just go tank or heal.

[Deleted]

Best advice right here. If you had bad luck with legendaries, just go tank or heal.

You mean something like this?
imgur.com/a/uO5K1

[Bugg]

Any chance that the next patch lowers our silence cooldown?

[Deleted]

You mean something like this?
imgur.com/a/uO5K1

You are living my nightmare. So far, 22 days of lvl 110 playtime, 90+ mythic+ dungeons in with an equipped ilvl of 873, bag-ilvl 881 i have the legendary boots as my sole legendary.

I dread the chance of me getting 3 equally bad ones as my upcomming legendaries.

Pls gieb helm, wrist or ring.

[Deleted]

Well at least you have some extra intellect, I got the neck and sephuz in 26 days at 110
I really hope we are getting some tweaks for 7.1.5, my ST DPS saddens me.

[Alame]

Any chance that the next patch lowers our silence cooldown?

No.

We've been begging for a reduced cooldown on Solar beam for years, the answer is always the same.

Because it's the only persistent area-based silence in the game it's supposed to be powerful in a different way, and that power comes with a cooldown. The artifact trait is the best we'll ever get.

[wing5wong]

No.

We've been begging for a reduced cooldown on Solar beam for years, the answer is always the same.

Because it's the only persistent area-based silence in the game it's supposed to be powerful in a different way, and that power comes with a cooldown. The artifact trait is the best we'll ever get.

Now if only the persistent silence effect actually was working and prevented mobs casting inside it.....