[Balance] Legion Discussion

[boz0]

If all the adds are grouped from the start - Sunfire > Starfall (or starfall > Sunfire) > tab target moonfire

I tend to just sunfire > starfall > spam LS until I can stack more starfalls.
I'm nowhere near a great boomkin, though, so I might be doing it wrong

[darklogrus]

If all the adds are grouped from the start - Sunfire > Starfall (or starfall > Sunfire) > tab target moonfire
If adds are spread but in the process of getting grouped - tab target moonfire til they are group > Sunfire > Starfall
If they remain spread - starfall > afk.

I thought it wasn't worth the Moonfire if the adds died relatively fast though.

[foibooze]

I thought it wasn't worth the Moonfire if the adds died relatively fast though.

common sensus is what, 5-6s?

[Skyepic]

I thought it wasn't worth the Moonfire if the adds died relatively fast though.

You are right, for simplicity sake i decided to ignore the time to live factor.

In his example of Gul'dan eyes, Moonfiring is definitely not worth it, Drop a starfall near the end of the his channel and then sunfire right after they spawn to hit them all before they spread out and then just use additional starfalls until they are dead.

In an example like Icy Enchantment adds on spellblade its definiltey worth keep dots on all 4 adds (which to most is common sense). Just saying once you factor in time to live it varies alot more which would take much longer to type

[Deleted]

thanks for the inputs guys

[darklogrus]

common sensus is what, 5-6s?

Got me, I came over from the Feral aspect of the Druid, havent seen really put much time with the class since early Mists.

You are right, for simplicity sake i decided to ignore the time to live factor.

In his example of Gul'dan eyes, Moonfiring is definitely not worth it, Drop a starfall near the end of the his channel and then sunfire right after they spawn to hit them all before they spread out and then just use additional starfalls until they are dead.

In an example like Icy Enchantment adds on spellblade its definiltey worth keep dots on all 4 adds (which to most is common sense). Just saying once you factor in time to live it varies alot more which would take much longer to type

Ah, was making sure I was doing what I was suppose to, Im still trying to work out all the kinks with the playstyle.

[huth]

Seems SimC is seriously borked when it comes to simming Lady and Child. For some reason it insists on constantly spamming Moonfire to the exclusion of almost everything else in multi-target. Talking 267s out of a 5 minute fight, here.

[boz0]

In an example like Icy Enchantment adds on spellblade its definiltey worth keep dots on all 4 adds (which to most is common sense). Just saying once you factor in time to live it varies alot more which would take much longer to type

I'm not sure it's that clear-cut : by the time you tab through the mobs to set up your moonfires, you could have cast a number of LS which would enable more starfall stacking.

I'd love to see some theorycrafting on this though

[Irefusetodie]

I'm not sure it's that clear-cut : by the time you tab through the mobs to set up your moonfires, you could have cast a number of LS which would enable more starfall stacking.

I'd love to see some theorycrafting on this though

You should have 80+ AsP, and ideally a Full Moon, when they spawn giving you more than enough time to fully DoT them.

[Slippykins]

Seems SimC is seriously borked when it comes to simming Lady and Child. For some reason it insists on constantly spamming Moonfire to the exclusion of almost everything else in multi-target. Talking 267s out of a 5 minute fight, here.

Yeah, it's a bug with the cycle_targets=1 line on Moonfire.

[Rashdawg]

I just got ED legendary a few days ago. I currently am running OI/Cindaria belt with tier helm to complete 4 set. I tried ED/OI w/ 3 tier pieces and it seems like its probably net neutral to swap to ED and lose Cindaria and 4 set. My gut instinct is telling me to keep helm tier for 4 set till gloves or legs.

I do not know how best to use OI procs during the spender phase. Do i just use all starfall procs asap? Seems like ED/OI kind of compete against each other at times.

[foibooze]

As you lose one cast in your weaving at the most from dropping SF you can almost always do it. Pop a solar instead of a lunar strike in between, or a lunar and SF instead of 2x wrath or whatever your current haste is at
Wait for some pro mathematicientist to confirm but quite sure you want to use up procc at all times, maybe not if you JUST dropped a starfall seeing as then you wouldn't get the increased benefit of empowering your dots.

[markos82]

what is the best combo to use when u have following legendary items: OI, IFE and Lady and the Child? I mean it depends on fights but what you guys think?

BTW I have 2 set bonus and 16% crit, 29% haste and 64% mastery.

[Adramelch]

I think I'd go with OI+IFE in basically everything. LatC is decent for cleave/AoE but OI, IFE are just better at it.

[Tarm]

We've gotten a first look at the T20 set bonuses.

2p: Increase your Astral Power generation by 10% and your maximum Astral Power by 30.

4p: Starsurge and Starfall increase your Haste by 3% for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times, but gaining a stack does not refresh the duration.

As a first thought: I like that unlike our current bonuses, these have an impact on both single and multi-target.

The 2p seems like a big quality of life increase for Emerald Dreamcatcher. It almost doubles the length of a typical SS-weave. Currently, if we start at 100 AP with Starlord and BotA outside of Incarnation or Hero and use a SS LS SS SW SW rotation, we can cast 7 Starsurges before running out of AP. With the 2p bonus starting at 130 AP, we would be able to cast 13 Starsurges.

The 4p also looks like fun. From looking at some top logs on single target fights, during a SS-weave without Incarnation or Hero the average amount of time between Starsurges is about 2.5 seconds. So during SS-weaving we can expect to have 5 stacks of the 4p for a haste buff of 15%. Dreamcatcher uptimes are currently around 75% in single target, but they will increase because of the 2p. Also, currently the time between weaves is around 6-10 seconds, so even though we need to build up 30 more AP, the 4p haste buffs wouldn't completely fall off between weaves. I estimate that the 4p would be at least an 11% average haste buff in single target situations.

Another note with the 4p is that it might put the Starlord buffed Lunar Strike + Solar Wrath breakpoint (56.7% haste according to Gebuz's guide) within reach in Tier 20 gear. If we aim for >42% haste (15750 rating; which as a bonus also allows Starlord Wrath + a GCD at 40%) we might just barely be able to do a SS LS SW rotation once we build up to a 15% haste buff. Given the bonuses from the 2p and BotA, we would then be generating 16.5 + 11 - 26 = 1.5 AP per Starsurge, so we could SS-weave (and maintain the 15% haste buff) indefinitely!

I don't know if it will actually be possible to get that much haste in T20, or if these bonuses will stay anything close to what they are now, but it's fun to think about.

[Myztikrice]

Got Lady and the Child. It's disappointing because I like all of these legendaries but not when there's still IFE and OI out there.

- - - Updated - - -

we might just barely be able to do a SS LS SW rotation once we build up to a 15% haste buff. Given the bonuses from the 2p and BotA, we would then be generating 16.5 + 11 - 26 = 1.5 AP per Starsurge, so we could SS-weave (and maintain the 15% haste buff) indefinitely!

But once the buff falls off you wouldn't be able to do LW + SW again until you cast 5 spells

[Tarm]

But once the buff falls off you wouldn't be able to do LW + SW again until you cast 5 spells

The way I interpret the bonus, 15% buff would never fall off in this scenario. To fit LS SW SS during the 3 second duration of the Dreamcatcher buff, you would be casting a Starsurge just under every 3 seconds, say 2.9 seconds. So every 2.9 seconds you would get a new 3% haste buff stack with a 15 second duration which would overwrite the old 3% haste buff stack from the Starsurge you cast 2.9 * 5 = 14.5 seconds earlier which at that point would have just 0.5 seconds left in its duration.

Something sort of like this, with time going from left to right and each - representing 3 seconds of one of the 3% haste buff stacks:

-----
 -----
  -----
   -----
    -----
     -----
      -----
       -----
        -----
         -----
          ----
           ---
            --
             -
12345555555555  (current number of stacks)

Maybe that's not how it will work though. How are you interpreting it?

[huth]

It doesn't get refreshed. The entire stack falls off after 15 seconds. There's no ambiguity here, either, all effects with that wording work this way.

[joltcola1234]

Once we get our hands on the 4 piece set bonus does anyone know if we should be using Starsurge during AoE fights? Like during single target portions of an AoE/cleave fight should we be falling back on the regular empowerment/SS "rotation"?

If this IS the case, does it make more sense to use Starlord over Force of Nature?

This is assuming we are using an AoE spec (soul of the forest, stellar drift, shooting stars, etc.)

[MV Kaa]

Once we get our hands on the 4 piece set bonus does anyone know if we should be using Starsurge during AoE fights? Like during single target portions of an AoE/cleave fight should we be falling back on the regular empowerment/SS "rotation"?

If this IS the case, does it make more sense to use Starlord over Force of Nature?

This is assuming we are using an AoE spec (soul of the forest, stellar drift, shooting stars, etc.)

You dont take FoN anymore. People take starlord for the times when theres only one target