A former resident reflects on his struggles in Brussels most notorious neighborhood

[Deleted]

It's just a cluster fu*k of race, ethnical, religious issues all pilled up in one neighborhood. It's less Europe and more Middle East making it the perfect ground to breed and train islamist terrorists!

What's your take on it? I for one see the only answer is forced mixing of race/ethnical/religious groups so they don't segragate by default. Aka don't let muslims living in their own neighborhood.

Last Saturday in Paris, at the Boulevard Voltaire near the Bataclan club, I found myself staring at a pool of blood. I wondered what was happening with the world, and refocused my camera on the aftermath of the terror. When it became clear the attacks were planned in Molenbeek, I was not surprised. The real surprise? That Belgium expressed shock at the connection.

Link to the whole article!

[Deleted]

What's your take on it? I for one see the only answer is forced mixing of race/ethnical/religious groups so they don't segragate by default. Aka don't let muslims living in their own neighborhood.

I wouldn't want to live next to them and I doubt anyone would either.

Note that these neighbourhoods didnt start out as a "immigrant ghetto". They just started coming in more and more while the original people living there move away more and more.

[Alydael]

I wouldn't live near it. I also feel that the government of Brussels bears responsibility for it, it is happening in their country after all- they have a duty to handle the situation. Allowing a problem in your country to bleed over and affect your neighbors is being a terrible neighbor. If they don't have the means to deal with the issue, they should ask for help.

[ParanoiD84]

It's almost like it's a bad idea putting so many of them in the same spot. We also have issues with suburbs/ghettos in sweden with tons of immigrant gangs.

[Mihalik]

I wouldn't want to live next to them and I doubt anyone would either.

Note that these neighbourhoods didnt start out as a "immigrant ghetto". They just started coming in more and more while the original people living there move away more and more.

Funny enough, here in Madrid, the "migrant neighborhood" is one of the most popular areas of the city. The areas of Lavapies, Tirso de Molina, La Latina (a triangle in the south end of central Madrid) has some of the best ethnic restaurants, it is well known for its nightlife and ethnic stores and cultural events. If anything the area is starting to experience a large degree of gentrification as more and more students and young middle class adults are moving into the area.

I lived in the area of Lavapies for 2 years. There was a Catholic church on my street and a Mosque. There are 5 or 6 mosques and 3 churches in a 10 block radius around where I lived. I would say about half of the folks living in the area were Muslims. I never had any negative experiences whatsoever.

The thing is that Spanish society is generally much better at integrating migrants than most others. I'm not Spanish myself, but I can say that I really admire the lack of racism and Islamophobia.

[Blobfish]

Sounds like Malmo in Sweden
Some Commentators are saying that Sweden will become a Third World Country soon
due to the amount of welfare it pays to immigrants

[Dezerte]

Segregation is bad.

[Templar 331]

What's your take on it? I for one see the only answer is forced mixing of race/ethnical/religious groups so they don't segragate by default. Aka don't let muslims living in their own neighborhood.

That's pretty much the same argument against minority ghettos here in the U.S. Not seeing that happen.

[Vyxn]

It's just a cluster fu*k of race, ethnical, religious issues all pilled up in one neighborhood. It's less Europe and more Middle East making it the perfect ground to breed and train islamist terrorists!

What's your take on it? I for one see the only answer is forced mixing of race/ethnical/religious groups so they don't segragate by default. Aka don't let muslims living in their own neighborhood.



Link to the whole article!

soon it will come to an American neighborhood near you

[Deleted]

The culture of denial is really a problem.
We can't attribute the problems to racism.

[Independent voter]

The author of the article is a typical left wing dude



who had completely unrealistic expectations. I see the problems in Molenbeek as two sided, the larger culture doesn't want anything to do with the Muslims and the Muslims would rather sit in Molenbeek and collect social benefits than to try to integrate.

Some white guy trying to be "enlightened" showing up in Molenbeek and declaring himself one of the natives.

[Spectral]

Segregation is bad.

Isn't it weird how some ethnically concentrated neighborhoods turn into unlivable ghettos and some don't? K Town in LA is pretty cool, for example. None of the Little Italy districts I'm aware of in American cities are famous for being violent hellscapes. Chinatown in DC is pretty nice.

Maybe it's not having an ethnic enclave that's the root problem.

[Deleted]

Segregation is bad.

Integration doesn't work as they don't want to. So what's the solution? How do you plan to keep these people from building their own communities inside the larger communities, driving other residents out and effectively duplicate their home countries when that is exactly what they aspire to? Talking with them? Good luck with that.

[Fibh]

The article says it pretty well; How many terrorists need to come from Belgium before the government wakes up.

Molenbeek is clearly one of the worst neighbourhoods, but it's hardly a solitary problem. Islam and Belgium just don't mix. You have a culture that refuses to integrate anywhere or even adept in the slightest, and then you have a country that both doesn't encourage integration and has almost no national identity.

I'm sure muslims can integrate in the US, and Italians integrated pretty well after a while here in Belgium. But a culture that refuses to integrate in a country that discourages integration is just begging for problems.

Hell, I'm born here, from generations of Belgians and even I identify more with Flanders/Limburg than Belgium. Why would an outsider ever give 2 fucks about this country?

[Deleted]

who had completely unrealistic expectations. I see the problems in Molenbeek as two sided, the larger culture doesn't want anything to do with the Muslims and the Muslims would rather sit in Molenbeek and collect social benefits than to try to integrate.

The "larger culture" i.e the native one (I like how you avoid that word to give both the same legitimacy) often did not initially have anything against these people. This is a "burnt once" response. People outright flee from there because of the situation they found themselves in and it's a very nasty situation. I wouldn't want my children to go to a school where the mayority of made up by these people and not because of prejudice but because of actual experiences and knowledge.

People did not initially refuse to hire these people, they STOPPED doing so for good reasons. People did not initially ban them from attending clubs and bars, they stopped letting them in for good reasons. This continues on for almost every response. It's usually put down to prejudice, racism etc and called as "reason for the split in society (implying there was ever such a thing as an unified society, there wasn't) when it was merely a REACTION to the situation these people found themselves in aswell as the danger.

Somehow the reaction and self protective behaviour is cited as cause for the action and violence that caused it in the first place.

Isn't it weird how some ethnically concentrated neighborhoods turn into unlivable ghettos and some don't? K Town in LA is pretty cool, for example. None of the Little Italy districts I'm aware of in American cities are famous for being violent hellscapes. Chinatown in DC is pretty nice.

Maybe it's not having an ethnic enclave that's the root problem.

No, it has to do with the residents of these neighbourhoods. The attitudes, mentality, morality and their view of the larger society they live in are what matters. If you have a group that rejects the society of the country, that stand opposed to it on almost all values and norms, that are outright hostile to it and are themselves often extremly xenophobic, racist and see themselves as conquerors rather than as part of society aswell as ABOVE everyone else in the social hierarchy then the whole thing is doomed to fail from the very get go.

And while "Poverty" and such can cause problems, they're not the root cause here. Never have been and never will be. They might be a product as these people fail in society due to rejecting it but it's not what caused this in the first place.

[Spectral]

And while "Poverty" and such can cause problems, they're not the root cause here. Never have been and never will be. They might be a product as these people fail in society due to rejecting it but it's not what caused this in the first place.

We see the same phenomenon in the context of American cities that have crumbled and fallen into disrepair, wherein bad whites are blamed for the white flight response to the Great Migration. Suggesting that there might have been any reason for whites to leave is racist bad think - all right thinking people know that the reason Detroit, Baltimore, and Newark are twisted hellscapes is because of racist whites. Surely the new residents aren't to blame in any way.

[shadowmatrix]

It's just a cluster fu*k of race, ethnical, religious issues all pilled up in one neighborhood.]

Replace neighborhood with country and you have described early America.

[Acidbaron]

The article says it pretty well; How many terrorists need to come from Belgium before the government wakes up.

Molenbeek is clearly one of the worst neighbourhoods, but it's hardly a solitary problem. Islam and Belgium just don't mix. You have a culture that refuses to integrate anywhere or even adept in the slightest, and then you have a country that both doesn't encourage integration and has almost no national identity.

I'm sure muslims can integrate in the US, and Italians integrated pretty well after a while here in Belgium. But a culture that refuses to integrate in a country that discourages integration is just begging for problems.

Hell, I'm born here, from generations of Belgians and even I identify more with Flanders/Limburg than Belgium. Why would an outsider ever give 2 fucks about this country?

Right it's the whole culture, no wonder you pinpoint the whole group as a problem looking at your ignorant signature. A country that is part of the problem of the middle east and why IS has such an easy time recruiting as Israel day to day activities is one of their greatest advertisements.

Do i really need to explain to you why you identify yourself with your region closest to you instead of as a belgian first?

[Deleted]

We see the same phenomenon in the context of American cities that have crumbled and fallen into disrepair, wherein bad whites are blamed for the white flight response to the Great Migration. Suggesting that there might have been any reason for whites to leave is racist bad think - all right thinking people know that the reason Detroit, Baltimore, and Newark are twisted hellscapes is because of racist whites. Surely the new residents aren't to blame in any way.

The inverse of cause and reaction is a staple in the argumentation of these people. In case of Detroit there were more reasons such as vital industries failing and falling into ruin, removing the reason why many people were around to begin with. The car industry getting wrecked was a huge hit for Detroit. However people moving away from "troublesome" neighbourhoods is something even find INSIDE groups to quite some extent.

In the end trying to blame people for self protective behaviour and a "burn me once" attitude is merely just a desperate attempt at trying to find a scapegoat, someone to lay blame to. Especially if you were happily going about producing a climate in which these people were already the bogeeyman to begin with, there's no reason to live and stay inside a toxic and hostile climate towards yourself.

- - - Updated - - -

Right it's the whole culture, no wonder you pinpoint the whole group as a problem looking at your ignorant signature. A country that is part of the problem of the middle east and why IS has such an easy time recruiting as Israel day to day activities is one of their greatest advertisements.

While some of Israels behaviour is questionable, a lot of it comes down to having wisened up after being burnt once. Israel itself did not start these conflicts but is merely a reactionary force for the most part. Trying to blame Israel for a situation the other side has brought about and acting as if they caused it in the first place is beyond ridiculous.

Then again, thank you for proving my point in this thread. You guys are constantly inverting cause and effect to an absurd extent.

[Rukh]

Isn't it weird how some ethnically concentrated neighborhoods turn into unlivable ghettos and some don't? K Town in LA is pretty cool, for example. None of the Little Italy districts I'm aware of in American cities are famous for being violent hellscapes. Chinatown in DC is pretty nice.

Maybe it's not having an ethnic enclave that's the root problem.

Really? You've never heard of the mafia or Irish ghettoes? Are you totally ignorant to history or you just don't want to bring up facts that clearly invalidate your assertion?