The Thrill Is Gone for Obamacare as Health-Care Approval Fades

[Crissi]

Not sure costs would go down if Ava is removed. You can kick the sick and poor off so insurance don't need to charge as much for individuals, but sick and poor will still receive care from hospitals, who will pass the cost of them not paying to the insurance if those who can pay...

[Vyxn]

Care to try again?

Slate? are you for real? and you complain about ones using Fox as a source

[Maculo]

Insurance companies should have not been allowed to raise it, but something like that would never be voted in since the corporate interests are more important than anything else, including the health and well being of your own citizens.

The amusing thing is those paid the most by those lobbies, have to point towards "obama" and all their blame gets washed away as if they had no hand in this. Not even the Insurance companies get criticism levied at them, since it's normal for insurance to keep health inaccessible by merely ramping the costs up, so that those that can afford it for now rather avoid getting care out of risk for being charged more. Well isn't that lovely.

I Guess even with your post you are part of that group that eats the obama blame like candy. My it must be so easy to control the public opinion in the US, almost effortless.

I know everyone is blaming the insurance companies, but don't insurance prices just follow the rates hospitals charge for the services? Insurance companies do not necessarily profit from higher premiums, as it means fewer people can afford it. Moreover, increased medical charges and costs eat into earnings. This news seems to indicate that insurance companies (and customers) are the ones being squeezed by the cost of medical care still increasing on the hospitals' end.

[Orbitus]

You do realize that Pelosi and the democrats shut the republicans completely out of writing Obamacare? Right? How can you now try to lay blame for Demona3's health care costs on the republicans?

How the fuck can you say this with a fucking straight face? REALITY disagrees with you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patien...008.E2.80.9310

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Slate? are you for real? and you complain about ones using Fox as a source

He isn't wrong. It is most certainly a Republican plan from the Heritage Foundation and the Republicans most certainly had a hand in creating it.

[Fugus]

I know everyone is blaming the insurance companies, but don't insurance prices just follow the rates hospitals charge for the services? Insurance companies do not necessarily profit from higher premiums, as it means fewer people can afford it. Moreover, increased medical charges and costs eat into earnings. This news seems to indicate that insurance companies (and customers) are the ones being squeezed by the cost of medical care still increasing on the hospitals' end.

Actually, correct me if I am wrong but, insurance companies are allowed to have a 20% profit margin by law. So, now that people are required by law to have them, wouldn't it put it in their best interests to boost prices as much as possible to boost their 20% share as much as possible?

Before, they wanted to keep the rates as high as they could without having them go to a competitor, now, they still have that same motivation, but since all must have insurance by law, it isn't as huge of a controlling factor.

I really wish they would just suck it up, join the world of civilized healthcare and go full on single payer. If they won't do that, then go for the swiss healthcare setup where they are assigned and forced into a non-profit status for health insurance, which then puts it within their best interests to get it as low as possible for their clients while making it easier to sell them markup bonuses.

But the fact of the matter is, by it's very nature, there can and will never be a free market in healthcare. Just not possible unless we all somehow turn into one of the Highlanders and become immortal.

[Maculo]

Actually, correct me if I am wrong but, insurance companies are allowed to have a 20% profit margin by law. So, now that people are required by law to have them, wouldn't it put it in their best interests to boost prices as much as possible to boost their 20% share as much as possible?

Before, they wanted to keep the rates as high as they could without having them go to a competitor, now, they still have that same motivation, but since all must have insurance by law, it isn't as huge of a controlling factor.

I really wish they would just suck it up, join the world of civilized healthcare and go full on single payer. If they won't do that, then go for the swiss healthcare setup where they are assigned and forced into a non-profit status for health insurance, which then puts it within their best interests to get it as low as possible for their clients while making it easier to sell them markup bonuses.

But the fact of the matter is, by it's very nature, there can and will never be a free market in healthcare. Just not possible unless we all somehow turn into one of the Highlanders and become immortal.

Even with 20%, I would think insurance companies are still squeezed by increasing costs from hospitals and that increased premiums simply prices out more and more customers. Moreover, as far as I know, hospitals are not limited in the same way that insurance companies are limited in terms of profits. Ultimately, it seems that the 20% profit margin is not able to keep up with increased medical expenses.

Honestly, I am not sure that insurance companies are the bad guys in this instance (for once). If hospital prices are still increasing, there is not much they can do other than increase premiums, which limits the customer base even further.

[jakeic]

Even with 20%, I would think insurance companies are still squeezed by increasing costs from hospitals and that increased premiums simply prices out more and more customers. Moreover, as far as I know, hospitals are not limited in the same way that insurance companies are limited in terms of profits. Ultimately, it seems that the 20% profit margin is not able to keep up with increased medical expenses.

Honestly, I am not sure that insurance companies are the bad guys in this instance (for once). If hospital prices are still increasing, there is not much they can do other than increase premiums, which limits the customer base even further.

it is my understanding that part of what drives healthcare cost are insurance companies not paying hospitals. someone once told me that the hospital they worked at only collected ~20 cents for every dollar billed. that could be all wrong.

[Crissi]

it is my understanding that part of what drives healthcare cost are insurance companies not paying hospitals. someone once told me that the hospital they worked at only collected ~20 cents for every dollar billed. that could be all wrong.

Every piece of advice I've gotten was always negotiate with the hospitals, because they Will over charge you otherwise. So them not making it back may be because it wasn't worth that price in the first place.

Of course they also have to eat costs of treating uninsured and under insured so...

[Acidbaron]

I know everyone is blaming the insurance companies, but don't insurance prices just follow the rates hospitals charge for the services? Insurance companies do not necessarily profit from higher premiums, as it means fewer people can afford it. Moreover, increased medical charges and costs eat into earnings. This news seems to indicate that insurance companies (and customers) are the ones being squeezed by the cost of medical care still increasing on the hospitals' end.

No insurance companies pay out hospitals based on certain numbers and algorithms it isn't a direct reimbursement. So it rarely are full reimbursements. In Europe Hospitals do profit from it but that's a different matter.

Insurance companies that are doing the best have certain package deals and so this explains a lot of the profit differences between them Blue cross vs United, for example. Medical cost for procedures are going down, this is a natural evolution of how technology making it more efficient and thus cheaper. Hospitals in the US also aren't working at over or full capacity.
I'm a bit baffled at how many still think it is not the insurance companies.

[zenkai]

So this is where I of course have to do all the work to find a chart that proves my point.

That charge provides some bad information I suggest you research it

[Acidbaron]

That charge provides some bad information I suggest you research it

My what a compelling argument "it is wrong cause i say so, read harder!"

[zenkai]

My what a compelling argument "it is wrong cause i say so, read harder!"

Ive already explained it too many times, people need to learn to research stuff before they post it, this isn't the first time I seen this BS graph and it wont be the second time, just google how they determine quality of healthcare

[Acidbaron]

Ive already explained it too many times, people need to learn to research stuff before they post it, this isn't the first time I seen this BS graph and it wont be the second time, just google how they determine quality of healthcare

All you told me here was, you would argue the methods used. This however does not disprove it wrong merely question the interpretation of it.

Also don't like to repeat arguments about the same thing people are completely uninformed about, such as socialism? Welcome to the club and MMO-C OT forums.

[Deleted]

Ultimately Obamacare is Romneycare at its core, a private healthcare system where corporations get subsidzied by the state.

Every civilized society should have healthcare free at the point of access with no one taking a cut, end of story.

[zenkai]

All you told me here was, you would argue the methods used. This however does not disprove it wrong merely question the interpretation of it.

Also don't like to repeat arguments about the same thing people are completely uninformed about, such as socialism? Welcome to the club and MMO-C OT forums.

Hey if you want to be ignorant and believe every graph you read off a random website without questioning how they got their information, no sweat off my back.

[Daelak]

My rates have skyrocketed since Obamacare , Pre-Obamacare they were stable. About $5 dollars a year or so. Since Obamacare, my rates have gone from $80 a week to now over $140 a week.

Those rate spikes are caused by the inherent inability of the private health insurance system's actuarial pools. Until you have 320 million or more people (health partnership with Canada and Mexico) price volatility and inflation in the private health insurance market will continue.

[Felya]

Hey if you want to be ignorant and believe every graph you read off a random website without questioning how they got their information, no sweat off my back.

Their sources are listed in the graph's footnotes.

[Elegiac]

Because it isnt. A great deal of the bloat and stupidity is forced onto the Pentagon.

Care to name specific examples?

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"Better" coverage? Costs are going up not down, particularly for young healthy adults who are being forced to pay for unnecessary coverage to subsidise the sick and the poor.

I was referring to the fact that single-payer systems almost universally have cheaper costs per head than the US model.

[Kellhound]

Care to name specific examples?

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I was referring to the fact that single-payer systems almost universally have cheaper costs per head than the US model.

M1 continued production. M9 procurement. KC-46. BRAC.