Legion: Elemental Specific

[Riistov]

This sort of post looks awfully familiar...oh, that's right. We see/hear this every xpac beta.

Yup, the classic "Don't worry <insert xpac here> changes will fix everything"

I will say, I am optimistic about the spec in Legion, I know I shouldn't be....but I am.

[Jotaux]

I hate the feeling of elemental on beta atm.

Is there a way to make my shield stay on my back while casting?

[binkenstein]

Who is Preach and what videos did he make? Why you need to hype a class if you get to play it yourselves on alpha/beta and experience how shit it is with your own hands?

Preach is an Old school 40 man hardcore raider who became popular because of his youtube videos. He doesn't raid at the top anymore but people seem to look to his videos for advice. Heres the vid in question:

Ele Shamz is awesum bruh

Also, a lot of people dont have alpha and beta. With the incredibly low about of Ele Shams in higher end mythic guilds it meant very few of them got an alpha invite too. The ones who did hadn't really made too much constructive content regarding them so people look to Preach because it's all thats out on youtube.

tbh Preach is more of a loudmouth who doesn't really have an informed opinion on anything. The only reason why people refer to his videos is because he's "e-famous" and that's about it.

Ele will be fine dps wise, lmao I dunno why you guys are crying so much about dps.

The only thing you need to cry about is the clunky gameplay.

The mechanics are pretty much why I'm re-rolling. I don't think it'll be quite as bad as the twin Warlords disasters of Molten Earth and getting 20% "free" Multistrike, but artifact traits are really not that great (which is more of a problem with how they designed the whole thing in the first place) and the talent tree is horribly organised and contains multiple talents that are horribly broken in ways that balancing can't resolve.

[Deleted]

I hate the feeling of elemental on beta atm.

Is there a way to make my shield stay on my back while casting?

That is their design to justify fist weapon as artifacts for Elemental. They promised to make it work, and cant deliver.

[Jotaux]

That is their design to justify fist weapon as artifacts for Elemental. They promised to make it work, and cant deliver.

I like seeing the fist weapon but I want the shield on my back where it doesn't look like I'm dragging around a weight in offhand for no reason. The shield on the back makes more sense for a caster.

[gambit998]

O hell that is gonna look dumb with the Draenei female bum shuffle casting.....odd weapon probably cutting through my characters face and a rando shiels when i am trying to cast a spell....it is gonna look odd

[Deleted]

I like seeing the fist weapon but I want the shield on my back where it doesn't look like I'm dragging around a weight in offhand for no reason. The shield on the back makes more sense for a caster.

Elemental artifact is still invisible while seathed, or did they fix this since alpha?

[miffy23]

tbh Preach is more of a loudmouth who doesn't really have an informed opinion on anything. The only reason why people refer to his videos is because he's "e-famous" and that's about it.

Have to defend Preach here - he never claims to be a theorycrafting expert on any of the specs he makes videos on, but he's a whole damn lot better informed and a higher tier raider than 99% of the youtubers out there, and he tries to make balanced and fair content concerning the spec design simply based on how it feels - not numbers. He's pretty common sense and down to earth, I don't know where this "loudmouth" stuff is coming from, basically every video of his I watch he makes a point of mentioning all possible sides on a subject and trying to stay neutral.

The mechanics are pretty much why I'm re-rolling. I don't think it'll be quite as bad as the twin Warlords disasters of Molten Earth and getting 20% "free" Multistrike, but artifact traits are really not that great (which is more of a problem with how they designed the whole thing in the first place) and the talent tree is horribly organised and contains multiple talents that are horribly broken in ways that balancing can't resolve.

I'm sad to hear that. I personally kind of enjoy Elemental on Beta. I don't think it'll remain the only shafted spec by far, 7.0 is probably going to be a balancing clusterfuck of epic proportions with so many new layers of variables to account for. Overall I don't think Ele will do as poorly as it did in WoD though. Clunky as it may be, our toolkit is still more flexible than it was before.

[Deleted]

Have to defend Preach here - he never claims to be a theorycrafting expert on any of the specs he makes videos on, but he's a whole damn lot better informed and a higher tier raider than 99% of the youtubers out there, and he tries to make balanced and fair content concerning the spec design simply based on how it feels - not numbers. He's pretty common sense and down to earth, I don't know where this "loudmouth" stuff is coming from, basically every video of his I watch he makes a point of mentioning all possible sides on a subject and trying to stay neutral.

I don't think he is neutral at all. He just say "this is awesome, i am enjoing it, it is in great shape!" That's very subjective opinion and when it comes to whom I rather believe between Bink and Preach, Bink always wins just because of his professional background.

I do enjoy playing elemental on beta but I am afraid that it will be just another raid tier / expac where elementals are suboptimal for your raid setup. We all want to contribute and pull the weight in our guilds.

[trm90]

Ultimately I feel like Windrush Totem will make or break this class, especially since Stampeding Roar is being nerfed. There are no other ranged classes in Legion which provide a raidwide 5 sec 60% MS boost. Ferals have a 10 yd range SR, Guardians have a 30 yard range SR, both point blank, while WRT can be placed up to 40 yards away.

Regardless, I'm thinking of going back to maining Resto and waiting to see how Elemental plays out. Thinking about it, while class / mechanical overhauls are always fun and exciting, classes that haven't needed changes and are always relevant in progression are, quite simply, solid and reliable classes. Resto falls under that category. They also have a cooler artifact, even more interesting utility in their T90 talent row (Ancestral Protection / Earthen Shield / Ancestral Vigor), CBT is finally being fixed and there's that really small probability that we won't be spamming CH for the first tier or two.

[miffy23]

I don't think he is neutral at all. He just say "this is awesome, i am enjoing it, it is in great shape!" That's very subjective opinion and when it comes to whom I rather believe between Bink and Preach, Bink always wins just because of his professional background.

I do enjoy playing elemental on beta but I am afraid that it will be just another raid tier / expac where elementals are suboptimal for your raid setup. We all want to contribute and pull the weight in our guilds.

I'm not aware of any debate between the two? Or of any kind of war of opinions? Preach just makes impression videos, what he thinks of the rotation and class feel so far, and tries to gauge who and what type of player might like that. Of course it's subjective, he still tries to stay fair and balanced - and I did very clearly state that it has nothing to do with hard numbers at all.

[Bougy]

Preach just makes impression videos, what he thinks of the rotation and class feel so far, and tries to gauge who and what type of player might like that.

True, we're hardly his target demographic.

The issue is that his opinions are the opposite of ours, the people who have played the class for years and his opinions are going out to 100,000 viewers. It's spreading the misinformation that elemental is fine. It makes you wonder where blizzard takes it's feedback from, youtubers like preach, or those that put the time and effort in to go really in depth like binkenstein.

[Deleted]

True, we're hardly his target demographic.

The issue is that his opinions are the opposite of ours, the people who have played the class for years and his opinions are going out to 100,000 viewers. It's spreading the misinformation that elemental is fine. It makes you wonder where blizzard takes it's feedback from, youtubers like preach, or those that put the time and effort in to go really in depth like binkenstein.

YouTubers like Preach and forum posters like most likely, haha.

On a more serious note, we should ignore Preach in this thread.

[miffy23]

True, we're hardly his target demographic.

The issue is that his opinions are the opposite of ours, the people who have played the class for years and his opinions are going out to 100,000 viewers. It's spreading the misinformation that elemental is fine. It makes you wonder where blizzard takes it's feedback from, youtubers like preach, or those that put the time and effort in to go really in depth like binkenstein.

Um. Several people in this thread, in fact a whole lot, have already mentioned how they enjoy Elemental on Beta.
I wonder why you think it's "misinformation" when all he's doing is talking about how the spec feels and plays right now. That has little to do with endgame tuning - besides the fact that there's more than one opinion.

[L3fty]

The worst part of all this is that the most hailed theorycrafter / spreadsheet guy for Ele is Bink, someone who has not really raided mythic at all in WoD, unless I'm mistaken. The circle jerk is quite impressive when we basically have noone that really invests both words + actions into the spec.

Contrast this with Werdup. (Who is going DH afaik). If only we had someone like him playing Ele.

[Bougy]

Um. Several people in this thread, in fact a whole lot, have already mentioned how they enjoy Elemental on Beta.
I wonder why you think it's "misinformation" when all he's doing is talking about how the spec feels and plays right now. That has little to do with endgame tuning - besides the fact that there's more than one opinion.

Sure, elemental feels fine for leveling out in the world, a few dungeons maybe a raid test or two. But when you've done all the legion raid testing as elemental you see how broken the spec really is. But of course feel is somewhat subjective so I'm not going to argue that point, how it plays however is not. Just wait and see until legion is out and you'll see what me and many other shamans have been saying.

The worst part of all this is that the most hailed theorycrafter / spreadsheet guy for Ele is Bink, someone who has not really raided mythic at all in WoD, unless I'm mistaken. The circle jerk is quite impressive when we basically have noone that really invests both words + actions into the spec.

Contrast this with Werdup. (Who is going DH afaik). If only we had someone like him playing Ele.

It's a shame Bink doesn't raid mythic, but the only benefit would be boss specific talents/guide but any mythic shaman worth their salt would figure it out on their own through playing and looking at logs.

[Deleted]

Um. Several people in this thread, in fact a whole lot, have already mentioned how they enjoy Elemental on Beta.
I wonder why you think it's "misinformation" when all he's doing is talking about how the spec feels and plays right now. That has little to do with endgame tuning - besides the fact that there's more than one opinion.

The chance is very high that all people who enjoy beta Elemental currently, would also enjoy it if this spec was competivily in high end PvP and PvE.

[miffy23]

Sure, elemental feels fine for leveling out in the world, a few dungeons maybe a raid test or two. But when you've done all the legion raid testing as elemental you see how broken the spec really is. But of course feel is somewhat subjective so I'm not going to argue that point, how it plays however is not. Just wait and see until legion is out and you'll see what me and many other shamans have been saying.
.

I'm not debating your raid testing experience, just clarifying that Preach isn't making any statements on that, and neither are people that are reasonably happy with the playstyle of the spec so far in Legion. Which would suggest to me that there's not that much broken with it. I am in Beta and will do some raid testing soon so I'll find out if this holds up. I've heard very conflicting opinions so far.

[Deleted]

People with quest experience can only suggest that something isnt broken while they do their quests, on their task to kill that 10 boars. Even then, maybe they just didnt pull 2 boars at once yet.

On the other hand we've math people and people with tons of experience in raid testing, mythic dungeons and other, actual challenging content, who suggest that this spec is not fine.

[trm90]

The worst part of all this is that the most hailed theorycrafter / spreadsheet guy for Ele is Bink, someone who has not really raided mythic at all in WoD, unless I'm mistaken. The circle jerk is quite impressive when we basically have noone that really invests both words + actions into the spec.

Contrast this with Werdup. (Who is going DH afaik). If only we had someone like him playing Ele.

I've always felt the same as you on the matter. Bink's contributions to the Elemental community are second-to-none; he's produced very informative spreadsheets which are useful to everyone, and guides which can sort you out up until the end of Heroic HFC (I picked up Elemental because of his guide). He's also made a lot of solid talent and artifact suggestions. But ultimately, Mythic is on a whole other level compared to Heroic, and having a feel for your class when pushed to the limit also matters.