[RANT THREAD] Get it all out

[Geodew]

Blizz taking so long to give Mistweaver useful utility is really making me nervous and frustrated. I try not to exaggerate Blizzard's incompetency, but Mistweaver is in for another annoying expansion fighting for a raid spot with the next-best healer, or even trying to justify a raid spot at all, if all our utility is just Leg Sweep (when has COW been useful in PvE this whole expansion?) and a trivial amount of extra damage (at least trivial to non-world-first-competing guilds). I was hoping when they revamped the spec they'd fix its issues with being underpowered almost every tier, but I'm still waiting for Blizzard to show me they can do that...

I like the lore and feel of the spec. Don't make me feel like I'm significantly holding my raid back by playing the class I want to play.

[Staggered]

My frustration is that my SEF clones don't add into my Soul Cap... makes it worse. /rant

[Lucrece]

It angers me to see the kind of tunnel-visioning idiots that DO get invited into alpha/beta.

Instead of complaining of worthless traits like Light On Your Feet still on the artifact, or the heal on transcendence and how a melee spec relies on a cast time effuse unlime other melee who have their heals made instant....

They provide worthless feedback about wanting to go back to old SEF or TEB. IT IS NOT HAPPENING. THE DESIGN CHANGE HAS GONE THROUGH. Stop wasting precious feedback posts on trying to get a rollback on the class back to the WOD model, the devs ain't doing it.

For pete's sake, focus on the damn boring talents and worthless artifact traits. Ask for Roll's cd to be reduced to 15 sec per charge. Ask about the obnoxious tab targeting for SCK. Ask for the weak energy talent row and chi spell row to be looked at. Ask for Diffuse Magic to be reverted if Cloak of Shadows stays the same superior version with the same cooldown.

Ask for Fortifying Brew back at least.

BUT DO NOT WASTE MORE TIME ON A BACK AND FORTH OF BRINGING BACK WOD SEF/TEB, it is not gonna happen at this point in beta.

[Deleted]

It angers me to see the kind of tunnel-visioning idiots that DO get invited into alpha/beta.

Instead of complaining of worthless traits like Light On Your Feet still on the artifact, or the heal on transcendence and how a melee spec relies on a cast time effuse unlime other melee who have their heals made instant....

They provide worthless feedback about wanting to go back to old SEF or TEB. IT IS NOT HAPPENING. THE DESIGN CHANGE HAS GONE THROUGH. Stop wasting precious feedback posts on trying to get a rollback on the class back to the WOD model, the devs ain't doing it.

For pete's sake, focus on the damn boring talents and worthless artifact traits. Ask for Roll's cd to be reduced to 15 sec per charge. Ask about the obnoxious tab targeting for SCK. Ask for the weak energy talent row and chi spell row to be looked at. Ask for Diffuse Magic to be reverted if Cloak of Shadows stays the same superior version with the same cooldown.

Ask for Fortifying Brew back at least.

BUT DO NOT WASTE MORE TIME ON A BACK AND FORTH OF BRINGING BACK WOD SEF/TEB, it is not gonna happen at this point in beta.

Yeah, but change is baaaaaaaad, I don't like it, I want it all back.
/sarcasm

[Solemnity]

Discipline Priest -- Legion Beta Feedback
Thanks for all the feedback. To revisit something that we touched on back at Blizzcon, but perhaps haven't talked about since then: Discipline is the most complex healer to play in 7.0 by a wide margin, and is possibly the most advanced core rotation of any spec. We know this and are generally okay with it, even though we still want to manage it within reason. It is to some extent inevitable due to the mixture of DPS- and heal-type targeting that Disc has to frequently swap between, something that no other spec asks of you outside of specific talents. Also, Disc is intentionally positioned against Holy, which is one of the more accessible healers in 7.0.

Reading stuff like this incredibly infuriating to me. There's never any cliffnotes about Mistweaver or its current development, oh but here's a blip about the awesome complexity of Disc priest that Mistweaver was gunning for. I don't have it in me to switch classes again, but even if I were jumping the gun there is nothing in the toolkit that looks fun to me. Mistweavers are supposed to be nimble, oh that's a Demon Hunter thing now, at least we have a unique healing style, oh nevermind, we just cleave heal and press auto-win HoTs. Where is the button that makes other people glad I'm on the healing roster? Nobody at my level appreciates fistweaving, if they even knew how I healed. Paladins and druids get these cool thematic abilities, and what did we get? Chi-ji and a lot of our current abilities put into talents?

I'm just worried I'm going to not enjoy the spec anymore once it goes live and I only raid because my friends are there.

[Lucrece]

I have no doubt DH will eclipse any class it stole from, be it WW's mobility niche or warlock's demon form.

Which is too bad. They wanted to make WW more played but instead of introducing fun mechanisms and revamping talents like they did with shamans and DK, they just gave us old WW with less abilities and just SEF/SCK new gimmicks.

And we also got one of the ugliest/most simplistic artifacts with one of the biggest shares of passive traits.

I have my enhancement shaman and DK as backup. Won't be trying DH, that class is gonna be a rollercoaster ride of nerfs and fixes to those nerfs.

It could be worse. WW's could be like feral druids who just got pruned to hell, their artifact traits are utter garbage and none of their mechanical issues were even acknowledged or fixed.

So at least WW can be grateful they're not feral druids.

[Nihilan]

Will all you douchenozzles running Chi-Orbit please stop playing the game? The visual for that ability is so friggin annoying. AND ITS EVERYWHERE!

FUUUCK.

Also, RJW is too obtrusive as well. Just not as bad as tard-orbit.

[dalborga]

The only class/spec you had to forget stupid mechanics because you spent all the time making sure you wouldn't die. You had clash. You had happiness. You banged your keys nonstop in what seemed random. But it wasn't. You heard healers having heart attacks on voice chat. You had yourself afraid of lag spikes. And at the end you came out alive. Ah, yes, you killed the boss too, whatever. How else would you dethrone your always solid as rock paladin main? Challenge of course.

Then you, the easy police came. You removed clash because it was buggy (ahem, blink anyone?). Then you nerfed serenity. But worry not, you don't really need shuffle anymore, all you need is guard. All of sudden it didn't matter anymore. Look how shiny is this boss ability! Damn I need to paint this my wall. Well, milking dps on WW seems fun. Let's do it.

But dumb^Weasy isn't enough. Now it must be in a theme. Because that's what you care while you're on the 150th pull right? Oh man, I totally should drink more beer right after the boss shoots the unicorn's fart sharknado at me. No, that's not enough, you had to base the spec on the empty promise you made in every expansion since I started playing: "Oh yeah, this time tanks won't be self sufficient. Healing mana will matter! There won't be damage spikes!". Sure, I'll want my tank to be almost dead in order to use a powerful heal. Sure, take away my statue and make it a talent. After all being able to use it to balance how many mobs are in me isn't necessary or fun. Why stop? Make "relevant talents" as way to remove stuff people used as baseline and make them choose between them! Make sure you also make the choice require a freaking inscription thing too! After all, with major glyphs gone, inscription people were feeling like librarians these days. So take something people had for granted and make it something you need to buy! Of course your forgot that thing you said about talents how you should be able to swap it all the time, easily. Of course you hate these "cookie cutter builds" with talents. The obvious way to fix it is... making it harder to swap talents! Can't expect more of people who removed clash.

Also, thanks on the ret'ing WW. That final elemental shaman guy is making fun of us now. Like he doesn't have problems of his own.

Long live the righteous king.

[BetoClinn]

If I had a button to either wipe out ISIS or the people who enjoy the 7.0 Mist weaver changes, I would spam that goddamn 7.0 monk button like it was Surging Mist while Channeling soothing mists(cast while casting you know, something that was original to Monks). Holy fucking garbage design. All the complexity down the drain now MW are some kind of bastard love child of priest and druids. I've been playing since Vanilla and I've never had as much fun as I did throughout MoP until now with MW raid healing. Fucking AFK soothing mist channel? I prayed that it was some kind of sick joke. Not even only that but Blizzards entire healing philosophy is garbage. Spirit gone, any type of mana regeneration gone(except for disc) now they want healers to go oom and then stand there with our dicks in our hand while everyone slowly dies. Which is why I'm beta non healers queues are 15 minutes, no one wants to heal anymore. But anyway back to how Blizzard took a giant shit on MW and every player that enjoy MW monks. Trash developers couldn't even hold up an interesting class dynamic so they decided to remove everything that made MW monks unique, they did such a shit job at class design they had to add a mastery that does flat healing because otherwise you'd be better of using a bandage instead of a MW healer.

I'm a recovering alcoholic but now that my favorite class is destroyed & gone I had to break my clean steak to not feel as depressed about these awful changes. Who called for this shit honestly, I'd be much more excited for Legion if it was the exact same game minus the garrisons, but nope even though they knew maybe 70 fucking percent of players thought garrisons were horrible and didn't fit into the game they moved it into Legion, they're a fucking joke at this point.

MW Monks used to be considered burst healers and even with they're lack of raid utility they brought steady strong heals into raids. With 7.0 they aren't shit anymore, what the hell is that garage aoe heal essence font? CHANNELED? Wtf?? Jesus fucking Christmas why.. I could go on forever on what is wrong with MW in 7.0 but one thing for certain I'm done. In Legion I'll be re rolling resto druid because I was fucking FORCED TO. 2minute tranq, ironbark, 2charge swiftmend, innervate, so many goddamn HoTs, ground aoe heal, yseras gift, the list goes on. Monks?...nothing. Absolutely fucking sad

- - - Updated - - -

A lot of the design of Monks has been thrown off course at various times (for all 3 specs) because, quite frankly, the Monk community at large has almost always been horribly wrong about whatever the current state of any given spec is. If a spec was awful, some morons would be saying it was amazing. If it was amazing, people would continue acting like it was terrible. A large part of that also wasn't even people that played Monks, but world first race raiders that never played Monk and insisted on throwing their opinion in on things they had no clue about (the best example being when everyone though BrMs were terrible in Highmaul because Riggnaros had no clue how Serenity worked as an ability). When WWs were OP, everyone whined about how they did too much damage instead of realizing that it was SEF that was brokenly overpowered and WW was actually fine outside of those situations.

MW has had it the worst, with literally every tier the majority opinion was the opposite of reality. In 5.0, people whined that Revival wasn't very good even though MWs were far better than basically any spec except Disc. In 5.2, people though MW was OP for some reason when it was really just mediocre. Then in 5.4, the legion of 10 man raiders insisted that MW was pretty good when it was actually the worst healer in the game. In 6.0 again people said that MW was bad for some strange reason when it was great until 6.1 when Resto Shamans got double SLT, but then in 6.2 again MW was great and everyone says it sucks.

Some of the ridiculous design can be blamed on the devs, but just as much can be blamed on the horribly ignorant community of fly-by-night Monks that would pick up the class when they thought a spec was OP and drop it the next patch, lacking all context or understanding of how the three specs actually worked. It doesn't take long to look around the Legion changes discussions and see people saying they only started playing whatever spec they're talking about in 6.1 or 6.2, which would be unheard of in any other class discussion. No one without years of experience in a class is taken seriously anywhere else, yet Monks have to or there would be no one to talk to.

I've been raiding healing MW since MoP, even though with some of the roller coaster of bad changes I was always able to either tie with or out heal any other class in a fight with high raid damage. I would only be second to either a disc priest or paladin in the slower fight where their absorbs did most of the work. But with Legion the final nail hit the coffin (at least for me).

I agree how basically every patch monks were on the decline. Crane Stance? Godawful for a healer to be hit with a gcd and a chi wipe. Incredibly stupid idea. I too agree that people would pick up Monks thinking it would be face roll healer (Uplift Spam?) But it is actually the most difficult healer in the game (or at least it was). Managing Chi and efficiently building/using mana tea was no joke. I had to know every fight like it was a scripted Broadway musical. When a boss was seconds away from throwing out raid damage I had full chi and with a precast uplift ready to dish out another 3 after that. If it was real bad I could double Surging Mist(instant) the tank and dish out another one. It was difficult, challenging, rewarding and awesome to be a great monk healer, always got compliments in pugs. RIP to that. But toxic players complained about monks being "clunky" or other nonsense complaints the same people who buys heroic carries instead of playing the goddamn game and couldn't even complete proving ground silvers probably resulted in these awful changes. Balancing the game around the guy who does lfr and gets out healed by tanks. gg.

[Deleted]

Screw you, blizzard.

I loged in today and found that my Fists weaps were unequiped and blizz gave me swords instead saying "some abilities require different weapon types" ..... Ok blizz, thank you, yeah, I know that I will be stuck for the next 2 years with only fists. What a way to rub it in.

[Deleted]

So sad that my favourite class and spec in the game since MoP has been wiped out. MW used to be unique, challenging and fun - what's left is a barely even the bare bones of what it used to be. I don't understand why Blizz did this radical redesign, I never really got an answer.

I'm all for change, I really am, but this is not a change that resonates with me. I actually don't mind being totally mana dependent, that change is fine but now we just press buttons whenever needed instead of preparing for damage (something I liked because it made MW stand out, the other healers are reactive, maybe except for Disc) and our melee niche is gone (this was one of the defining things????!!!!!!!). We are less mobile because our spells are now with a cast time or channeled plus we have to get addons to help with range of Vivify and Essence Font (for raids at least). What's the point of Soothing Mists, how much in raids will you be standing still to get any use out of this? As it was before it was a good on-demand spot heal and allowed us to instacast Surging and Enveloping.

Also, where's our utility? Whatever does a MW bring to the table that the others don't bring (in addition to bringing more utility)?

Sigh.

[Kyranna]

So sad that my favourite class and spec in the game since MoP has been wiped out. MW used to be unique, challenging and fun - what's left is a barely even the bare bones of what it used to be. I don't understand why Blizz did this radical redesign, I never really got an answer.

Sigh.

Because every developer thinks it's his god given right to leave a piss mark on the tree, like dogs do, even if the tree owner would like to have a word with that, dogs don't speak, right?
Brewmaster was the most fun tank in the game for me (and I play them all), now it's boring and don't even get me started on the Mistweaver, my favourite class of all times in MoP, now it's so shitty, so boring, so horrible, so unimaginative, that I'd really consider a career in the street cleaning for the people responsible of this abortion, this disaster. WoD was already filled with shitty changes (stances? for real?), but Legion is taking the gold medal for them, hell, even silver and bronze to be honest.
They made a few class changes here and there that are not bad, but damn... monks are piles of garbage right now. I'm in the 1100 club, which is 11 classes at 100 and I started playing in open beta more than 11 years ago. I witnessed a lot of changes I didn't like and some that I did like, but this takes all of them and makes them look like insignificant things: I've never before seen a class torn to pieces and thrown in the toilet like this. Flush it away and delete it already.

Goodbye my little gnome monk, you'll be missed.

[Deleted]

I don't understand what they are going for with the new Mistweaver. It seems like they just removed Chi, Touch of Death, interrupt, healing via rolling (Chi Torpedo healing and damage), mana tea, healing with orbs in any form and other things as if they had just given up on those ideas and fantasies without really coming up with anything new and interesting. Not all of the things we lost were that meaningful or worked that well in practice currently but they were at least different and somewhat unique. Like it seems that they designed the new Mistweaver to be a very standard class with nothing but raw and straightforward healing without any interesting twist, interesting limits or utility to it. Even the completely new abilities like the Invoke Chi-Ji don't really seem to have any point - the bird zooming around looks amusing but there is no gameplay to it.

I'll admit I never liked the flavor of the class and I first made my monk because I wanted to be a Brewmaster but started trying out Mistweaver because I had a hard time believing that Mistweaver was actually a spec and a thing other than maybe a minor glyph for Resto Shamans but at least they had they had some interesting gameplay ideas like the healing spheres, fistweaving, heals that require combo points to be used and utility that could have been interesting like Touch of Death and a shield that increases HoT healing while it holds. Now it seems like they scrapped those and the spec is left with no appeal to me at all unless it is tuned to be OP.

[lonely zergling]

I WANT MY OLD MISTBEAVER BACK.

Worst thing: they stole our spearhand strike and gave us TAUNT, BLIZZARD are you high?

[Jamie081]

I got kicked from a group doing TW Mana Tombs because they kept dying on the first boss and ignored the mechanic where the boss reflects attacks. Was it the group sucking, me sucking, MW sucking or all of them because I'm confused.

[Aeristar]

I WANT MY OLD MISTBEAVER BACK.

Worst thing: they stole our spearhand strike and gave us TAUNT, BLIZZARD are you high?

We've always had taunt, most hybrid tank/healer classes do. But I agree, I hate that we lost a LOT of our utility. Doing Manny now, I can't nimble brew out of gaze.. arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Lucrece]

I got kicked from a group doing TW Mana Tombs because they kept dying on the first boss and ignored the mechanic where the boss reflects attacks. Was it the group sucking, me sucking, MW sucking or all of them because I'm confused.

Healers and tank are pretty weak after the pre-patch.

[Deleted]

Fuck ive been playing monk bm since mop release, and i've never hated my class/spec so much since prepatch happened. Really thinking of rerolling dk blood.

[Lucrece]

Fuck ive been playing monk bm since mop release, and i've never hated my class/spec so much since prepatch happened. Really thinking of rerolling dk blood.

Warning you, DK's lost a bunch of their cd's and abilities as well.

[Djriff]

As a shadow priest, I hate WW's. Even IF tuning isn't done yet, there's no way in hell a WW should be able to beat me at my own niche when I have better gear. That's just silly.