Ultimately, do you think Garrosh was not to blame for his actions?

[khalltusk]

Garrosh was in full control of him self. Instead of taking the advice of those around him, he was always a hot head. Ever since thrall told him about his dad he has had this MASSIVe chip on his shoulder.

If he took a moment to head someones advice rather than rush in head first things might have been different.

[sam86]

he has very good reasons, but he is still 100% responsible

[Emeraldon]

Of course he was responsible for his actions. He chose to torture and kill innocents, he chose to try to commit genocide. He became the monster, literally, and was thankfully killed off.

[Deleted]

The point of contention for me is regarding to what he said in Nagrand Outland, where he was whimpering like a pathetic orcling about he couldn't live in his fathers shadow, he could never be Warchief because he was weak. Thrall tried to make him strong, but he only became strong in body, not in mind, and that is what caused him to go full Hitler.

Could Thrall have done more, yes, and arguably not chosen Garrosh as Warchief (hard to argue it though after his many many successes in Northrend).
Could Garrosh have done something differently? He could have manned up and heeded his own words. He knew it was going to happen and yet he still let it happen.

[Aucald]

In regards to the issue of corruption and the essence of Y'shaarj, Blizzard has said pretty conclusively that Garrosh was not corrupted by the Old Gods. Take a moment, then, to understand that statement's full meaning. Typically a Warcraft villain is taken in by corruption despite their original intent - e.g. Neltharion's slow corruption due to the whispers of the Old Gods from deep in the earth, or even Kael'thas being pushed by desperation and rage into the very arms of the Burning Legion. Garrosh wasn't *corrupted* by the power of the Heart of Y'shaarj - he *chose* to emulate him, he was a wiling vessel for a potent and powerful evil god to further his own ends.

Your call as to whether or not that's worse than unwilling corruption due to circumstance or external forces.

[StationaryHawk]

Do I think Garrosh was responsible for his actions? Yes. Do I think he was driven towards that path by external factors? Also yes.

Being serious, don't you guys think Garrosh only acts tough to hide his insecurities? If he really was so evil at heart, why did he let go of Anduin's arm instead of ripping it off when he saved his life?

Garrosh always struck me as sort of insecure. He has a tendency to show cracks in his shell whenever he's seriously challenged on his beliefs, especially during the SoO fight and the AU Nagrand cutscene.

[Resheph]

Of course he was responsible for his actions. He chose to torture and kill innocents, he chose to try to commit genocide. He became the monster, literally, and was thankfully killed off.

QFT.
No matter what kind of challenges, it was ultimately his own choice to deal with it the way he did. He single handedly set back Human <-> Orc relations with an era or two, coming close to getting his people wiped out. Without a doubt the worst non-immortal npc in Warcraft's history.

[Ciddy]

I can't directly quote it word for word because it's been a while, but I seem to remember a blue post that was something along the lines of "He is completely in control of himself and isn't being corrupted/influenced by some outside force." So...yeah, the way I understand it, he is absolutely to blame for his actions. Thrall is partially to blame because he should've known better than to leave someone like Garrosh in such a position of power, but Garrosh was a big boy. Everything he did after becoming Warchief was on him.

[Zuben]

Not initially, the Horde could've done hell of a lot more to support him. Changing from an offensive general into a supreme leader is something you'd need help with, especially with the world going to hell at the same time. Garrosh was honest in his accusation that Thrall left him to pick up the pieces.

Full-nazi still isn't the right way of progress.

[Sharps]

Ultimately I think Garrosh is the culmination of too many writers, conflicting ideas, lack of direction, and the general notion that characters can be used as blunt instruments to move the plot in whatever new direction the developers want regardless of said character's consistency, rationality, and general sense of logic. He is the worst written character in the Warcraft Franchise.

[Boogums]

Varian shares some part of the blame for Garrosh. How Varian acted in Wrath helped shape Garrosh's views of the Alliance which lead to the war.

Then of course, Varian preventing Thrall from killing Garrosh lead to WoD which lead to Legion.

You know what, it's all Varian's fault.

And if Thrall hadn't brought him from Outlands to Azeroth to Northrend, Garrosh would've never met Varian, so it's all Thrall's fault.

[Jokerfiend]

Ultimately I think Garrosh is the culmination of too many writers, conflicting ideas, lack of direction, and the general notion that characters can be used as blunt instruments to move the plot in whatever new direction the developers want regardless of said character's consistency, rationality, and general sense of logic. He is the worst written character in the Warcraft Franchise.

100% agree, his past behavior wasn't indication of future behavior. Not saying, that people can't change, it just takes a lot. With that much apathy about his father, I highly doubt he would follow the same path. How can you be that self aware and still make the wrong choice.

I dunno, but it makes more sense if he was influenced to make these decisions. That makes a lot more sense.

[Bathory]

He grew up as a typical orc does. Blood and Thunder, right? Yet he took it a bit further, becoming paranoid, xenophobic and warmongering.

Was he to blame? Yes and no. I only say no because the only person he'd listen to, (and he barely listened in the first place) Thrall, left him to figure things out himself. He had two devils on his shoulders, no balance. How can anyone expect anything outside of war/genocide when an Orc with something to prove (and a legendary sur name), is given title of Warchief and zero guidance.

[sam86]

So if nothing is canonical, then you invalidate any argument you make.

i'm pretty sure he means they care for lore less then us, which is true and i bet even u can't deny it
since Cataclysm and Metzen pulled out the rule of 'KUUL" over actual lore and lore turned to.. well this, kung fu pandas, multi sargeras but 1 archimonde, he is dead / no he isn't for anyone, AU Grom praised as hero (WTF) and so on

[Nanaboostme]

He initially had the right intentions but just poorly executed or he had a delusion of morality and justice

[StationaryHawk]

i'm pretty sure he means they care for lore less then us, which is true and i bet even u can't deny it
since Cataclysm and Metzen pulled out the rule of 'KUUL" over actual lore and lore turned to.. well this, kung fu pandas, multi sargeras but 1 archimonde, he is dead / no he isn't for anyone, AU Grom praised as hero (WTF) and so on

I can deny it, since Mists of Pandaria had fantastic lore and a great story.

Ultimately I think Garrosh is the culmination of too many writers, conflicting ideas, lack of direction, and the general notion that characters can be used as blunt instruments to move the plot in whatever new direction the developers want regardless of said character's consistency, rationality, and general sense of logic. He is the worst written character in the Warcraft Franchise.

I can half-agree with this. His writing was all over the place as they attempted to redeem him in Cataclysm, and then bailed on the idea. However, from Mists of Pandaria onwards I thought he was a pretty well-developed character.

[SirBeef]

And if Thrall hadn't brought him from Outlands to Azeroth to Northrend, Garrosh would've never met Varian, so it's all Thrall's fault.

If he wasn't quarantined in Nagrand because he was weakened with the red pox He might have fought and died fighting humans. Thrall left him with three very wise and respected advisers in Cairne, Etrigg, and Varok. He refuses to seek aid, even though Thrall said they helped him when he knew nothing of the same things Garrosh was afraid of not knowing. Screw it lets just blame Cairne for not challenging Thrall for power before the decision to put Garrosh in charge.

[Ramz]

The only person that should thake blame for Garrosh actions - is Garrosh himself.

Stop treating him like some disabled mental kid that shouldn't take responsibility for his actions! He was grown up adult for crying out loud!

And mind you Vol'Jin was not the first one who started the abuse it was other way around.

[Ratyrel]

Warcrimes has him unambiguously declare that he would do it all again and WoD showed that he would do anything to literally repeat his actions, including harnessing demonic power and committing mass sacrifice and slaughter. Garrosh is an orc supremacist through and through, living the demonic ideology that wanted to unleash the horde to crush anything and everything without any inkling of remorse. Say about Thrall what you will but that fight was needed. The Ancients might not have wanted to condemn him to teach Azeroth a lesson, but that lesson was very expensive indeed.

[Deleted]

Garrosh might've been apathetic and insular in Garadar, but he was still raised in an environment where 'The Horde' was the only real organization of Orcish strength he would've ever known. He was probably shocked to see his ideal changed as he came to azeroth with those other Magh'ar. Thrall held him close, probably only due to how he felt indebted to the Hellscream bloodline for the freedom of his people, but initially he had no intention of seeing the increasingly prideful orc gain any office beyond military.

Thrall was to blame for setting the ball in motion, mostly by how the only two contenders for Warchief he considered were two Magh'ar orcs, who is to say Saurfang the younger would've been resistant to the pro-orc sentiment that victory in the campaign up north and Varian's declaration of hostilities after Varimathras and Putress were defeated? Perhaps Thrall was swept up by the hype just as much as the rest of the orcs, painting Garrosh as a returning hero with the field experience to see him through?

In the end, Garrosh had every chance to see himself glorified rather than vilified, but absolutely terrible foreign affairs and inter-horde relations kneecapped his own ability to rise above a role of orcish warlord. Isolated from moderating voices by his own abrasive pride, surrounding himself with those loyal to their rank and orcish ambition ready to nod at any suggestion, winning against his primary rival hands down... I mean if he had actually failed his early campaign against the alliance, that could've given him pause, but instead he was blinded by glory.

This all comes together to form Garrosh. Wholly convinced in his own right to rule, the might of his loyal henchmen, the power of his newly modernized army.. emboldened by successes in the field. No one left to say no, dreams of glory seemingly realizing, the primary Alliance Kalimdor harbor of Theramore (With entire battalions of Alliance steam tanks unloading and parking within it's walls) wiped clear off the map.

At this point he wasn't 'too' bad. He had struck a terrible blow and crippled the Eastern Kingdom alliance presence on Kalimdor, it had still been an ostensibly supportable military choice to strike this transit-hub. It was in the Pandaria campaign where he grew drunk of his own successes that the Warchief damned himself. Seeking power to seal the deal, reaping a path across the new continent to paint it red, no care in the world as he rebuffed any and all criticism from his fellows in the horde... because he'd been right in the past.

There was no more doubt, no more need for anyone but sycophants to bow and accept, this was Garrosh's leadership realized.