Feminism & Lap Dancing

[nextormento]

There's very little feminist literature specific to lapdancing. It's generally categorized within the scope of the sex industry, and each feminist has different views on that.
The empowering through exploitation narrative is not much of a thing. Empowering is about the self, not about screwing the other. The argument, as far as feminism goes, is better framed as servitude/choice.
What has received a bit of exclusive debate is pole dancing. And there, a few feminist think that it empowers them; particularly because it requires physical training and reinforces the idea that being strong is a good thing. On the other hand, they also have the body-shaming narrative: the horrors of oppressing women into being healthy, attractive and employable.

[Deleted]

I'm married to an actual feminist (not that crap everyone here complains about endlessly) -- She appreciates the female form as much as I do. Exotic Dancing is completely acceptable as long as the dancer is not being forced to do it against her whim. Slut-shaming is completely unacceptable if this is what the dancer chose to do.

Yeah, that.

You'll find that, like everything else, there are some who are fine with it and some who are not.

Absolutely, and having the freedom to decide if it's right for you or not, without massive social stigma, is the goal of feminism in topics such as these.

[uopayroll]

We have feminists on MMO Champion?

Yes, MMO actually means Mass Male Oppressiveness and the feminists are here to fight the power

[Independent voter]

That just seems really uncomfortable, you'd walk away with a limp. And there's no touching.

[Blayze]

Feminist logic regarding anything like this boils down to "as long as it's her choice, but it's the wrong choice. Also all the men are evil despite being required from a business perspective, so arrest them and finance her Mr. Government because she can't afford to. You're all still shitlords and I hate you."

[Moralgy]

Sex negative feminism generally sees this is a bad thing that exploits women no matter their opinion on it.
Sex positive feminism generally sees it as a woman's freedom.

There are more specifics, such as if the woman has control over the situation or if she is just a product blah blah blah stuff no one here really cares about, but that is the general overview.

[tehealadin]

If she chooses to do it freely, I don't see the issue. I personally would never go to a strip club, I think they are sleazy, but I wouldn't stop others from doing so, or people from performing, if they are allowed to choose freely.

[Mihalik]

I'm many things, but a feminist, but I have always found lap dances you pay for or strippers to be the epitome of lame, cheesy, even gross and most certainly pathetic and disrespectful. And I have to agree it is essentially objectification, but in the end so is Mr. Universe. We hardly care what Mr. Universe thinks about anything, all that matters is how big he gets.

I don't specifically have much to say about the institution itself, but the people willing to pay money for the service, I JUDGE, deeply!

[Luxxor]

OP's thinly veiled attempt at discussing male lapcdancing...its what he's really interested in.

[Kjanaprik]

I have not heard much about male lapdancing, more just general male strippers with a bit of lapdance-esque moves tossed in (think bachelorette party style strippers)

as for women lapdancing i can't honestly think of a way that could be wrong, sure some sophisticated aristocrats might look down on lapdancers it's still their choice and nothing wrong with that.
Similarly pole dancing was looked down on few years ago, today it is a legit sport people compete in and thus nobody gives a crap anymore.
It's just a matter of perspective as long as nobody is getting forced.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Well, I'm a feminist and I like both giving and receiving lap dances, this is from either gender both giving and receiving. So long as no one (either gender or orientation) isn't forced into anything, I don't see why it would matter.

[lockedout]

Are there actually any unisex lap dancing bars?

Almost all strip clubs are unisex.

[Breccia]

Hey, if men are willing to pay a woman to not have sex with them, who are we to judge?

[chrisberb]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-bore-you-now
Just saying.
You said Feminism threads bore you, then post a thread with "feminism" in the title.

[Lady Dragonheart]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...s-bore-you-now
Just saying.
You said Feminism threads bore you, then post a thread with "feminism" in the title.

I mostly hate how one-sided it is... and how easily everyone band-wagon jumps to one side or the other without looking at the facts or the lack of facts... which in many of the cases point to other things that people just don't see, or don't want to see.

[Itisamuh]

Slut-shaming is completely unacceptable if this is what the dancer chose to do.

Actually, we have every right to judge a person by their actions, just like with anything else. If a girl behaves like a slut, it is quite logical to assume she is a slut, and react accordingly, same as we do with anything else we frown upon.

[May90]

I do not quite understand the whole fuzz about "objectification". We objectify people every day, all the time. When you pay to a cashier in a grocery store, you objectify the person as something you need to pay to. When you listen to a lecture on physics, you objectify the person reading the lecture as something providing you with essential information. When you have sex with your GF/BF, you objectify them as something providing you with opportunity to have sex. During lap-dancing, of course you objectify the dancing woman as something giving you a lap dance and arousing you sexually. Otherwise, why would you want lap-dancing done, to talk to the dancer about history of Incas?

Unless I understand what "objectification" means wrong...

[Lady Dragonheart]

Actually, we have every right to judge a person by their actions, just like with anything else. If a girl behaves like a slut, it is quite logical to assume she is a slut, and react accordingly, same as we do with anything else we frown upon.

I don't know, that would be something that's based on each person's beliefs... Different people have different views about what's slutty and what's not. Also, shaming, in general isn't anything but bullying. All you do by shaming anyone for anything is outing yourself a douchebag and possibly a bigot since shaming others has essentially been proven to not be helpful to either party. Simply by doing it, you're lessening the image of yourself in addition to the person that you're shaming.

[May90]

Actually, we have every right to judge a person by their actions, just like with anything else. If a girl behaves like a slut, it is quite logical to assume she is a slut, and react accordingly, same as we do with anything else we frown upon.

"Slut" is an insult, it hardly characterizes anything other than your disliking of that person. If you dislike what the person does, that's fine, but there is no call for insults. We live in a free world, where people are free to do what they like, as long as they don't break the law. The person doing exotic dance, or even sleeping with their client after the dance, hasn't caused harm to anyone and doesn't break the law in any way - so what is the problem?

I sometimes think that if everyone in this world understood the moral relativity principle, there would be no wars, no crime, no heated up arguments. People would just mind their own business and pursue their passions in life, instead of fighting each other all the time for silly reasons.

[Celista]

I know I dangerous combination but i'm actually curious on feminist views on lap dancing.

Is it the woman's choice and freedom to use her assets to exploit men for money?
Is it degrading to women and objectification thus wrong?
Is male lap dancing just as bad?

What's your views? Is it the ultimate expression of women embracing and empowering themselves by exploiting men or is it a misogynist businesses that should be banned from modern societies?

Depends on the feminist...personally I don't think women choosing to do porn/lap dance/strip/prostitute herself is "empowering" or "liberating" like some women claim it is, most women who go down that rabbit hole seem to end up pretty fucked up in the end. Or already had some sort of trauma happen to them that made that career path desirable to them, such as sexual abuse during their childhood.

Of course, there are exceptions to the rule. Women are objectified whether or not they deliberately attempt to look/act sexual...is it wrong? I don't know. I think it can fuck women up as they age, they try to cling to their youth and their beauty. Men deal with these things too, but due to culture/gender norms women are definitely physically objectified more than men are (men are expected to be providers/earners and therefore are objectified in other ways instead).

I think things are normalizing somewhat between the genders, albeit slowly.