Wunterschlausch and Black Pete, arrival in Holland

[Deleted]

http://sinterklaasjournaal.ntr.nl/#/home

For everyone who wants to have an opinion on the matter from abroad, i invite you to watch the Live arrival of our "racist custom".

A dutch tradition, basicly Santa with black elfs (because they go trough the chimney which blackens their face with soot)
A holiday for young children, they receive candy and presents.

It always stirs up a discussion because apparantly painting a face black = racist. Eventhough Curacao celebrates it aswell (painting black people even blacker http://media.nu.nl/m/m1fz13iacxnz.jpg / http://images0.tcdn.nl/binnenland/ar...iet+op+curacao) and other primarily black coloured people have no problem with it.

[Deleted]

what's that?

[Deleted]

It's where Santa Claus comes from; Saint Nicholas.
But instead of little elves we have black face, quite disgusting.

Oh boy... here we go...

[Deleted]

my opinion is I don't give a flying fuck

[lonely zergling]

My opinion is "people" will be offended by everything, everything is racist, everything is sexist.

[Deleted]

what's that?

A dutch tradition, basicly Santa with black elfs (because they go trough the chimney which blackens their face)
A holiday for young children, they receive candy and presents.

And ofcourse people like Kangodo get offended by it because they have a black face = racist. Eventhough Curacao celebrates it aswell and other primarily black coloured people have no problem with it.

It always stirs up a discussion, 90% of people want him not to change, 10% people like kangodo think the 90% should conform to the 10% offended people so these people go to these arrivals and shout obscenities in front of 5 year olds.

[Cairhiin]

Oh boy it's this time of the year again. Anything to ruin other people's fun I guess.

[Strangebrew]

it's where santa claus comes from; saint nicholas.
But instead of little elves we have black face, quite disgusting.

i must be offended on the behalf of these people who don't really care!

For i am the warrior of justice and peace!

[Deleted]

A dutch tradition, basicly Santa with black elfs (because they go trough the chimney which blackens their face)
A holiday for young children, they receive candy and presents.

And ofcourse people like Kangodo get offended by it because they have a black face = racist. Eventhough Curacao celebrates it aswell and other primarily black coloured people have no problem with it.

It always stirs up a discussion, 90% of people want him not to change, 10% people like kangodo think the 90% should conform to the 10% offended people so people like Kangodo go to these arrivals and shout obscenities in front of 5 year olds.

yes, petty and stupid sums it up

how miserable must your life be to be one of those people who always get offended over everything

[lonely zergling]

If black face is racist, so is white face.



See how this Ghanan PoC guy at the world cup 2014 in brazil used white color to show his openly racist side. No one cared.

While german fans with black faces (to form the national flagg) were accused of racism in brazil, gg PC crowd.

[Deleted]

how miserable must your life be to be one of those people who always get offended over everything

Yes Kangodo, please do tell

[Veggie50]

I feel that people need a bit of background on this.

Saint nicholas (aka sinterklaas) is the historical figure santaclause was loosely based on. He was an arch bisshop about 700 years ago, known for his generosity and love for children. History tells of an incident where a young woman couldn't marry the man she loved because she couldn't afford the dowery, so Saint Nicholas threw gold coins through her open window. This act is still symbolized in the current feast by throwing "pepernoten" which are essentially small cookies.

Saint Nicholas, as any man of standing in that age, had slaves. These slaves are now represented as "zwarte piet" (black pete) and in the current tradition they are his (slightly silly but extremely good natured) servants. They are represented by wearing colourfull clothing, shiny red lips, golden earrings and a painted black face.

Those against black pete in this tradition say that the way he is represented is offensive. It's a legion of silly black men bowing and bending to a white guy. They also state that the red lips and gold earrings are extremely stereotypical, aswell as all of them being called "pete" is dismissive.

Those in favour of the tradition say that black pete isn't black, but got that colour because, according to tradition, he got that way by travelling through chimneys to deliver presents. Besides that they say that children who love the tradition don't actually connect black pete to slavery or submission. There is literally not a child in Holland who would disrespect a "black pete". They believe a long forgotten connection to slavery is not worth abolishing this part of the tradition.

Maybe this helps with the discussion =)

[Deleted]

Next they will try to get our carnival custom banned because it is sexist and or transphobic to dress a guy up in woman clothes.

[Deleted]

They also state that the red lips and gold earrings are extremely stereotypical, aswell as all of them being called "pete" is dismissive.

Maybe this helps with the discussion =)

Red lips and gold chain earrings are no longer present because of this.

Problem is: its not the 1300's. Nor the 1400's, nor the first 10 years slavery were abolished.
How many people still KNOW the origin? The children sure as hell dont, nor does 80% of the adults.
The general consensus these days: Hes a saint from spain that has voluntarily helpers that get a black face from soot.
The Origin of the story isnt relevant anymore so nor is the discussion about abolishing something thats not related to slavery anymore in the slightest.

[Deleted]

Red lips and gold chain earrings are no longer present.

Not as slaves as servants like he claimed typical americacentric.

[Deleted]

It's basically Stormfront vs people that don't like black face.

No its basically children celebrating christmas vs. the black panthers.

[TheRickyB]

Lies. Chimney's don't cause this:



And people like Shiift believe that black people don't have the right to be upset about this, don't have the right to protest and should leave the country if they don't like it.
Because apparently only "white people" have the right to complain about shit they don't like.

The entire world sees it for what it is, but since the Netherlands are one of the most racists and intolerant countries in the world they refuse to change this ancient (50 year old) tradition.

Do you see any protesters doing such things?
The counter-protests, those are some messed up shit. It's basically Stormfront vs people that don't like black face.

only people who dont like it get to protest? sorry thats not how this shit works, like, at all.

[lonely zergling]

First world problems again.

[Veggie50]

I think both sides have merit. I think the bigger problem is that black people are quite guarded against insult and discrimination because they have had to be. This now results in defensive behaviour towards this tradition as a symptom of a larger problem.

[Deleted]

And people like Shiift believe that black people don't have the right to be upset about this, don't have the right to protest and should leave the country if they don't like it.

Maybe start by not being a minority in your own racial group and youll be taking seriously.