Mythic Archi - 3 or 4 healers?

[Malico]

You can 2 healers to skip 2nd doomfire. Good luck!

[Lyaira]

Phase 1 and phase 3 can be solo healed by any fairly competent healer. It is phase 2 that determines the healing requirements.

1 doomfire: 2-3 healers
2 doomfires: 3 healers
3 doomfires: 3-4 healers

You can adjust healing requirements a bit by focusing/ignoring the tank add. Eg. if your healers are having an easy time, tell your dps to just cleave the add, so you phase quicker.

[Gaidax]

When is the best time to use DPS rings?

We do one instantly on start, then delay one until 2nd phase adds come, then use another one on source in P3, I think.

Is it worth to delay ring on pull a couple of seconds to let people build resources (the likes of warlocks and such)?

[Skroe]

When is the best time to use DPS rings?

We do one instantly on start, then delay one until 2nd phase adds come, then use another one on source in P3, I think.

Is it worth to delay ring on pull a couple of seconds to let people build resources (the likes of warlocks and such)?

No it's not worth it. We use it:

(1) On pull with lust
(2) First Hellfire Deathcaller of Phase 2 (3rd in the fight... not on the one you carry over from Phase 1, the next one). It explodes on Boss, not adds.
(3) Source of Chaos #1
(4) When it comes up again between Infernal Waves 3 and 4.

Archimonde isn't like Xhul or something, where every second spent in the fight/phase is dangerous because all the abilities are dangerous to the raid in isolation. Archimonde has (in my opinion) 3 critical points: Wrought Chaos #3, Infernal #3 (a DPS check) and Infernal #4 (a survivability check, let's call it). You nail those three without losing people, you'll win. That's because Archimonde's individual abilities are easy. Nobody will ever die to stars alone unless they're negligent (in which case throw a rock at them). It's stars plus infernals plus dance that are hard because the raid needs to kill 9 dangerous things in about 12 seconds. It's the combination. In the wrought case, it's the one and only full wrought chaos + adds being out (wrought 2, you should push the 55% threshold in the middle of it). Unfortunately the DPS needed to skip these mechanics is firmly in "underheal the fight" land, because it would take more amount of gear than any upgrades or a bigger source of damage then lust or rings for most guilds to beat 4th infernal, never mind 3rd infernal (wrought 3 is probably doable 3 healing it).

So don't think of lust+ring as something that will beat the fight faster. Think of it as something that will make the attempts more consistent and take care of a problem specific problem your raid is having. If for example, infernal wave #1 is harder for your raid than Source #1, delay ring #3 for infernal wave #1 and you'll have it for infernal #4. Even if you only use the ring 3 times in the fight, it doesn't matter, because one use of the ring is not going to cause the fight to speed up such that infernal 4 is skipped.

This fight plays it very straight. If your guild has the DPS to do 2 Doomfires, either with or without lust, and has the DPS to push him to P3 sometime after the 3rd wrought, you will kill it around when everyone else does, before Infernal Wave 5, so long as people don't die in P3. That will happen just by showing up and playing right. So think about rings and CDs as things to get you over tough moments and not as a means of shaving 10 seconds off the encounter, which is pointless because you won't beat the fight before Infernal 4, the only point prior to Infernal 5 that is "tough spot" in the phase. The first kills of this fight dealt with infernal wave 5, so we're already living in that world in a sense.

[Morssoe]

1 monk healer

[qsdc]

1 monk healer

You can solo heal it as a Monk.

Druid can solo heal this boss too.

[hotspurz]

for progression 4 healing is a safe bet as with the current item level buff you can easily 4 heal and get 2 doom-fires. If you want one doom-fire I suggest 3 healing, overall this boss is on your chains+wrought p2 and how silly your raid can be in p3.

[spooby]

Lust with 3 healers and get 1 doomfire, EZ PZ p1 and p2. Doomfire handling becomes a joke. P3 healing isn't very instense, its just about having a proper cooldown plan. Only downside is that healing through wroughts will be slightly more difficult, but not a big deal. Push P1 with only 1 Doomfire.... enjoy ez kill.

[Deleted]

You can solo heal it as a Monk.

I wouldn't recommend that, I have never come closer to pissing my pants tanking that with 1 healer.

In all seriousness, if healers know their stuff and your raid does not get double beams on them. (Consider what we did and just tank boss in middle and spread out ALOT and just move with the boss when appropriate. (sometimes you dont have to move at all). That way healers + dps are always stationary instead of this silly ping pong tactic.) I would 3 heal it. Skipping p1 and p2 makes the boss very trivial and it is easy to see who fails in p3 and make sure they know what to do.

[Deleted]

Lust with 3 healers and get 1 doomfire, EZ PZ p1 and p2. Doomfire handling becomes a joke. P3 healing isn't very instense, its just about having a proper cooldown plan. Only downside is that healing through wroughts will be slightly more difficult, but not a big deal. Push P1 with only 1 Doomfire.... enjoy ez kill.

what exactly makes the doomfire handling so easy?
and why makes it p2 also easy??

please let me understand this advantage, in pushing the Boss so fast in P1. (i have to explaine logical, why i would bench 2 of our 5 healers)

[Deleted]

what exactly makes the doomfire handling so easy?
and why makes it p2 also easy??

please let me understand this advantage, in pushing the Boss so fast in P1. (i have to explaine logical, why i would bench 2 of our 5 healers)

Because they're not needed. That should be all the logic you need to present. There is absolutely no damage on Mythic Archimonde outside of tank damage, Doomfire damage, and stuff that can be managed with raid CDs. You want to go with as few healers as humanly possible.

[Adramelch]

what exactly makes the doomfire handling so easy?
and why makes it p2 also easy??

please let me understand this advantage, in pushing the Boss so fast in P1. (i have to explaine logical, why i would bench 2 of our 5 healers)

Typically, having more doomfires to deal with in p2 means you end up assigning healers to either heal the soakers or soak and heal themselves, effectively getting them out of the fight in grand scheme of things. So you end up with 3 doomfires and 2 healers assigned to soaking/healing the soakers and doing almost nothing else. Well go 3 healers, get 1 doomfire that the tank soaks with some healing and you end up in the same situation healing wise, except you also have extra DPS that makes the fight go faster.

PS: If you're 5 healing it (don't know if that's what you were implying) you're doing something really really wrong.

[Deleted]

what exactly makes the doomfire handling so easy?
and why makes it p2 also easy??

please let me understand this advantage, in pushing the Boss so fast in P1. (i have to explaine logical, why i would bench 2 of our 5 healers)

The fight itself isnt very healing intensive outside of the doomfire healing. Other than that the hardest part is p2 when you get wrought adds and shackles at the same time and the healers need to keep everyone decently topped while moving from adds and making sure the shackles dont die. Tbh you really dont need cooldowns for anything but that wrought chaos if you take 4 healers . But since you have them may as well assign them. What im trying to get at is that you really dont need 4 healers with 1 or 2 doomfires.

With 1 doomfire your disc priest goes and solos it by himself basically removing the entire mechanic since that doomfire will only have 10 stacks.

With 2/3 doomfires each soaker needs a healer leaving 1 person to raid heal and heal the tanks in p2. It is just more complicated.

It makes p2 easier as you will push faster with 1 more dps, you take less damage since you wont have to soak 1/2 more doomfires. The movement remains the same you need to do that regardless of number of doomfires you get.

P3 doesnt get harder per say but it gets longer without lust you just might get 1 infernal wave more than usual. With 3 healers you just need to be careful at infernal wave 3/4 save cooldowns for that point. We use tranq wave 3 devo HTT wave 4. If you have a shaman or paladin have them in the groups that explode first at it allows them to top people before the infernals and not worry about being knocked back just as the infernals spawn.

[Deleted]

PS: If you're 5 healing it (don't know if that's what you were implying) you're doing something really really wrong.

hehe, oh no.
i think about, if we should 3heal it and push p1 with Lust/hero
or if we 4 heal it, doing 2 Doomfires and save hero for any point in the fight where we struggle.

thx for your hints so far.

when i read shadows post, it sounds like 3 heal can be quite hard, and everybody have to play nearly perfect. so there is not much space for little mistakes. am i right?
so i think, it can be harder to lern the fight?

so it is a hard decision. we only raid 7 hours a week. and i honestly have no clue how to start progressing this Boss.
try to 3 heal + use Lust/Hero, get only 1 Doomfire
or 4 healers + 2 Doomfires in p1 and have Lust for P3

How would you recomment to start the first evening on progression?
i cant estimate, if 3 healing is clever for a guild who never was on the Boss before. :/

[Adramelch]

hehe, oh no.
i think about, if we should 3heal it and push p1 with Lust/hero
or if we 4 heal it, doing 2 Doomfires and save hero for any point in the fight where we struggle.

thx for your hints so far.

when i read shadows post, it sounds like 3 heal can be quite hard, and everybody have to play nearly perfect. so there is not much space for little mistakes. am i right?
so i think, it can be harder to lern the fight?

so it is a hard decision. we only raid 7 hours a week. and i honestly have no clue how to start progressing this Boss.
try to 3 heal + use Lust/Hero, get only 1 Doomfire
or 4 healers + 2 Doomfires in p1 and have Lust for P3

How would you recomment to start the first evening on progression?
i cant estimate, if 3 healing is clever for a guild who never was on the Boss before. :/

What I can tell you is that we killed him with 4 healers and generally had some problems rekilling him, so we switched to 3healing and it was much much smoother.

[Deleted]

With the high ilvls now, the biggest dmg boost for us have been to bloodlust ph1, and nuke it before second doomfire.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&target=49 our latest kill.
We used to save BL for ph3 before the valor upgrade came in. Now we just finish up ph1 and ph2 the easiest way, and just sac all source of chaos. So we can dps during those instead. But if you can't do ph1 with only 1 doomfire, I would save bloodlust ph3.

[Gaidax]

Well, in the end we got a kill with 3 healers, 2 doomfires and BL at P3 during stars+infernals part. The only troublesome parts, as people are saying, 2nd phase laserbeams + adds and 3rd phase Stars+Infernals+Dance.

Everything else is purely dependent on people not fucking up basic shit, like dying to dance or splitting and killing Infernals in time.

[Deleted]

hehe, oh no.
i think about, if we should 3heal it and push p1 with Lust/hero
or if we 4 heal it, doing 2 Doomfires and save hero for any point in the fight where we struggle.

thx for your hints so far.

when i read shadows post, it sounds like 3 heal can be quite hard, and everybody have to play nearly perfect. so there is not much space for little mistakes. am i right?
so i think, it can be harder to lern the fight?

so it is a hard decision. we only raid 7 hours a week. and i honestly have no clue how to start progressing this Boss.
try to 3 heal + use Lust/Hero, get only 1 Doomfire
or 4 healers + 2 Doomfires in p1 and have Lust for P3

How would you recomment to start the first evening on progression?
i cant estimate, if 3 healing is clever for a guild who never was on the Boss before. :/

3 healing isnt "hard" it is just punishing. P1 there is honestly no healing that you couldnt healing tide or tranq to solve. Our healers go full dps mode in p1.
P2 multiple people cant get hit by lazers it strains the healers alot. Dont worry about the raid not being topped constantly outside of wrought chaos there is literally 0 raid damage.

The place where you cant make mistakes is 2nd wrought because of the adds and chains. But tbh raid cds will make that smooth.

Your healers will get used to the damage output and learn to heal it easier over time.

Try a couple pulls on the boss to see what your dps is like. For example we push before the shadowfel burst comes out. Stand there and man mode it for 2/3 pulls. If you cant do that and the boss isnt around 72/3% and everyone is doing their full burst on the boss then plan for 2 doomfires. You can still do 2 doomfires with 3 healers. I would suggest the disc does 1 and the tank not tanking does the other. You can use a healer instead of your tanks are getting destroyed as the raid damage after wroughts is 0 apart from baddies stepping in dog.

[Deleted]

can anybody who is pushing the Boss with only 1 Doomfirespirit, provide me a Kill-Video?
i would like to see, with what mechanics we would have to deal in this 40-45 Sek. of the fight ^^
When i look at Kaminaris logs, it Looks like the whole P1 is over, when Lust/Hero expires xD

[Dracodraco]

can anybody who is pushing the Boss with only 1 Doomfirespirit, provide me a Kill-Video?
i would like to see, with what mechanics we would have to deal in this 40-45 Sek. of the fight ^^
When i look at Kaminaris logs, it Looks like the whole P1 is over, when Lust/Hero expires xD

Well yea. It'd have to be over when lust/hero expires. The second Doomfire spawns at 46 seconds, which means you have to burn it in essentially the duration of Bloodlust to push before a second doomfire. Anyway, what you have to deal with is:

Doomfire on the pull.
Desecrate spawn (get the orbs).
Spread the ranged out for shadowfel burst.
Boss should get pushed while the shadowfel bursts are in the air at the latest. Second doomfire is cast basicly as they land.

So there's really not a ton of things to do. I will however say that we found moving out the boss from his starting position to the middle as the Burst goes off is very beneficial to get in position for wroughts (because it means you will do the second wroughts at the gate, where the adds will spawn midway through the wrought, leading to a ton of easy AOE-cleaving).