[LEGION] Brewmaster Discussion

[mindw0rk]

I think the issue is that if it's supposed to be a PvP ability, then the PvP talents should be what modify it. And realistically I don't think that old content soloing should really factor into artifact design. It should be a nice bonus, not a primary factor. I mean, I don't know the ratios of PvE Brewmasters to PvP, but my gut tells me that the majority of BrM players are doing dungeons and raids, where Effuse is just not an effective tool while mid-encounter unless you have nothing to do at all... in which case, why buff it for such a small, nigh insignificant part of just some fights? It's just not something that every Brewmaster uses a lot, and that's something very important to consider when making perks for an artifact. Having unappealing choices for a majority of situations just makes the artifact feel bad

Because on live BM can spam absorb shields. Forget about it in Legion where mitigations and heals become much more handy. You will use Effuse during leveling, in battlegrounds, in arenas, while soloing elites and old content, even doing random dungeons. Especially if healing is more efficient thanks to traits.

As for immolation. It was just random idea but I personally would trade minor dmg on self for additional decent AOE any day. Particularly for monk who can mitigate this damage and heal through it. And particularly applied to Breath of Fire, that isnt part of core rotation and used specifically for dealing AOE on packs

[The Madgod]

Because on live BM can spam absorb shields. Forget about it in Legion where mitigations and heals become much more handy. You will use Effuse during leveling, in battlegrounds, in arenas, while soloing elites and old content, even doing random dungeons. Especially if healing is more efficient thanks to traits.

But with a cast time, that's extremely dangerous in actually meaningful content. Artifact perks should be ones that are pretty universally useful to Brewmasters everywhere. Never mind that having to cast a heal on yourself could really screw up the priority, feel awkward, etc.

Like yes, having a heal is good and making it more useful is nice, but it's gotta be something you aren't afraid of using when being pummeled in the face by a boss. Right now, our casted heal is largely used out of combat. That's for a reason. Never mind that it's counter-intuitive for a tank, because you can't dodge and parry when casting. It's just not great for when you are actively tanking. Abilities need to feel intuitive and comfortable, and using a cast heal while in the middle of combat as a tank doesn't really feel great. It's why it was made instant cast and given a CD to compensate for PvP purposes... because it would otherwise be extremely awkward to use while actively fighting.

As for immolation. It was just random idea but I personally would trade minor dmg on self for additional decent AOE any day. Particularly for monk who can mitigate this damage and heal through it. And particularly applied to Breath of Fire, that isnt part of core rotation and used specifically for dealing AOE on packs

The issue is, from a design perspective, you can do essentially that as a personal choice via going crit instead of mastery (as it stands today in live) and that's fine. That's a choice. The artifacts are supposed to be a way to epitomize your spec, make it best at what it does. If you put an ability in there that forces you to take more damage, you're effectively saying that is part of being the epitome of being a Brewmaster. At best, nobody who takes their survivability more seriously (especially during progression) will take it. At worst, it will be positioned in a way that forces people to take it in order to get an actually positive defensive trait, which just means Brewmasters'd just take the ability off their bars during progression. That has a very strong potential of making Breath of Fire a trap ability, and that's not good design for a tank. Something like this, if it fit class fantasy, would be best as a talent, I think. Something that you volunteer to pick and isn't part of any of the real core parts of the spec. Something that's very easily switched out. I'd also completely disagree on the idea of Breath of Fire being not part of our core rotation, because it absolutely is when dealing with multiple enemies. It's not niche anymore like it was in Mists and Warlords.

Managed to do most of a dungeon as Brewmaster before the hotfix came in to disable the spec. Feels very different with no chi, more like a live prot paladin where you basically just press whatever isn't on cooldown. Have logs but can't link them here

Heh, called that. I gotta admit, that sounds a bit worrisome to me, at least. I enjoy how Brewmasters play in live, and while I love my paladin, having a similar vibe isn't really all too appealing to me.

[DeiVias]

Oh boy, no wonder Brewmaster hasn't been officially released, it's a god damn mess.

[The Madgod]

Okay! So I'm pretty proud of myself here and I'm 90% sure that my spreadsheeting worked proper, but here it is again for posterity: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Basically I added another two lines to compare the effective mitigation of PBing. This is more or less only really important on the ISB tables, but it shows the difference of 6 seconds worth of damage from that specific point (equivalent to one charge of ISB). This means the table should be able to very roughly determine when PBing is actually more beneficial for short-term survivability than ISB. I might wanna have another that just shows the next 6 seconds worth of attacks and the staggered damage in full, for another comparison, because the just 6 seconds of damage bit would assume you'd purify at the end of it.

[Zorish]

offtop: about immolation aura http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=178740/immolation-aura DH already have it (without self damage). And tank damaging himself... in legion 1 tank can do this - BDK is they take pvp talent in last row wich make BS (blood strike) cost 5% health and do 100% more damage instead a rune.

Maybe better have some kind of Flame sweep/kick? Like you bath staff/leg (haha) in beer and then light it up with your speed (see some anime movies how character weapon burst in fire with their speed). Just idea

[Deleted]

from fun to play to... this

Well Good Job. lets see what changes they make until live

[dixincide]

With the changes that happened to Sub and then the intense revisions it received after feedback as an example.

I'm hoping we see BrewMaster make an appearance in Legion alpha soon. I feel like it will be similar to Subtlety in that it needs more attention from feedback than some other classes.

[Ampere]

Never actually tried selecting the Brewmaster artifact, damn. Would have liked to try it out, but sounds like it sucks right now

[The Madgod]

Never actually tried selecting the Brewmaster artifact, damn. Would have liked to try it out, but sounds like it sucks right now

I'm pretty sure it isn't in the game?

[Ampere]

I'm pretty sure it isn't in the game?

People were just talking about this on the last page, you could select the artifact questline and it would allow you to use the spec, but it's since been hotfixed.

[The Madgod]

People were just talking about this on the last page, you could select the artifact questline and it would allow you to use the spec, but it's since been hotfixed.

I'm aware. I'm saying that the Artifact's information isn't in the game. We'd have seen an update to it on wowhead by now if it were the case. there's not really anything that "sucks" about it yet because it isn't actually a thing

You guys are making me freak out! I'm frantically double-checking everything to see whether or not BrM stuff was actually in or not.

[Evolved]

He was referencing the artifact (quest) due to wanting to play with BrM and the fact that he can't anymore...not because of the artifact.

[The Madgod]

He was referencing the artifact (quest) due to wanting to play with BrM and the fact that he can't anymore...not because of the artifact.

In my defense, it's a bit vague, but I can see that. Especially after the follow-up.

Though even then I'm still not even sure if the quest itself is in yet either. Like, the quest proper.

[keqe]

In my defense, it's a bit vague, but I can see that. Especially after the follow-up.

Though even then I'm still not even sure if the quest itself is in yet either. Like, the quest proper.

I think the last build (or one before it?) added some strings related to stealing brew from legion camp. Probably BrM artifact quest related.

[The Madgod]

I think the last build (or one before it?) added some strings related to stealing brew from legion camp. Probably BrM artifact quest related.

... huh.

That sounds weird, but intriguing. I actually wonder what our quest is going to be. Something neat, I hope.

[Deleted]

Do you think that brewmasters will have that unique animation of holding their artifact, like presented on the screenshot: http://media.mmo-champion.com/images...Artifact06.jpg ?

[Anufis]

Do you think that brewmasters will have that unique animation of holding their artifact, like presented on the screenshot: http://media.mmo-champion.com/images...Artifact06.jpg ?

Yes, blizzard said that they changed animation for BrM

[keqe]

I just don't see how it will work in combat. Because of tiger palm and auto-attacks, it will most likely stay at our backs most of the time. The animation is probably only seen when idling weapon out.

- - - Updated - - -

Alpha going offline in 10 minutes. Post saying new alpha build ETA 6 hours from server shutdown.

BrM unlock hype?

[oqtopus]

BrM unlock or riot

[The Madgod]

BrM unlock or riot

It appears as though "Riot" is what happens tonight. Artifact traits, though!