Current playerbase can't handle Timewalking dungeons level of difficulty?

[Shadowcrash Umbra]

The Cata week was an adventure in hilarious disaster due to the dungeons actually needing coordination, but the BC/Wrath weeks have always been pretty much faceroll. The only tricky parts of the BC week are some of the spots in Mana Tombs (silences/polymorphs) and similar spots in Arcatraz. In all the times I've done them, I've only ever had one wipefest, and that was in an Arcatraz where the tank had no idea what they were doing and went around pulling whole rooms at once, including bosses.

Sounds like you just had bad luck, honestly.

[Villager720]

Get some SoO or DS gear, gem & enchant up, and win. Don't rely on others to be intelligent; make yourself a god and handle it.
I run 'em on three toons and am geared to the teeth for the inevitable multitudes of bads. Makes the whole process 100% better.

[Nnyco]

That is the challenge though, pop a CD or CC till healer is able again.

or i use just tyrant trinket and sit on 150k hp in tbc, challenge my ass

[Lochton]

or i use just tyrant trinket and sit on 150k hp in tbc, challenge my ass

Until they are adjusted too, right now they aren't. Yet, seems to be a challenge if people die because the healer is CC'd.

[Deleted]

Get some SoO or DS gear, gem & enchant up, and win. Don't rely on others to be intelligent; make yourself a god and handle it.
I run 'em on three toons and am geared to the teeth for the inevitable multitudes of bads. Makes the whole process 100% better.

And have to manage the storage of a gazillion of new item pieces? No thanks, I prefer to do more down to earth choices. In this case the basic mistakes people make is not realizing some trinkets and the ring effect are approximately useless.

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Though it's totally Blizzard's mistake some trinkets and the ring effect are almost useless. It makes no sense. A trinket might be useless from one boss, and the boss right before it in HFC to give a good trinket for it, absolutely nonsense and oversight, that is practically a bug.

[Feril]

People can handle them just fine. They're just really boring and you need to run at least 5.

[Deleted]

People can handle them just fine. They're just really boring and you need to run at least 5.

I think that most people have played those 5mans too much and they are already bored from the old days. Though OK, TBC might be lower on that issue. I was surprised at how many don't know unless you kill the hunter trash (in Mechanar? or around that zone) the legion trash keep spawning.

[Auxora]

Only one I've had any trouble with a group with was Black Morass. Since the mechanics are kind of unique for that dungeon with the portals, it throws off people that haven't ever been there. Still most groups handle it ok. These tw BC dungeons are nowhere in the same universe as hard as they were back in the day, so if people can't handle them it's a little sad. Back then cc/interrupts were absolutely mandatory and extra pulls were usually a wipe. These are absolute cake compared to back in BC. As a healer they are super-easy because of the tw scaling since it's virtually impossible to run out of mana. Even purposely overhealing I don't think I ever go under 90% mana.

[prudi]

I've been running them as a healer, and its all down to the tanks skill and the dps of the group. Every so often you get the group where everyone does 700dps, and the tank gets one shot from over pulling, at the same time i've had groups where the tank pulls entire dungeons without dying and people doing average 10k dps. THe main problem imo, is people leveling in these dungeons. I have a feeling the scaling for people leveling is way off.

[Bigbazz]

I've been running them as a healer, and its all down to the tanks skill and the dps of the group. Every so often you get the group where everyone does 700dps, and the tank gets one shot from over pulling, at the same time i've had groups where the tank pulls entire dungeons without dying and people doing average 10k dps. THe main problem imo, is people leveling in these dungeons. I have a feeling the scaling for people leveling is way off.

It's not way off, I've done Timewalking with people levelling, a lvl74 Blood DK tank doing 3k dps (more on trash), a Hunter pulling great dps all round too. It's more down to certain specs, combined with poor gear, combined with varying skill levels.. Some specs even with twink gear aren't performing that well, while others are really strong. From my experience Hunters, Warriors (Arms and Fury) and Ret Paladins are very strong, Combat Rogues are great on AOE.

Twink gear makes a big difference, Warriors executing for 50k damage is madness.. On the other hand you have an average geared player of another class where their big hit is doing 4k damage. Combat rogues in full twink gear and their 5 CP Evis hits for peanuts, but Bladeflurry/Killing Spree saves them on AOE.

And have to manage the storage of a gazillion of new item pieces? No thanks, I prefer to do more down to earth choices. In this case the basic mistakes people make is not realizing some trinkets and the ring effect are approximately useless.

- - - Updated - - -

Though it's totally Blizzard's mistake some trinkets and the ring effect are almost useless. It makes no sense. A trinket might be useless from one boss, and the boss right before it in HFC to give a good trinket for it, absolutely nonsense and oversight, that is practically a bug.

You could think of timewalking twink sets as an interesting part of the game though, the old set bonuses change things up (though many of them have been changed into basic 5% damage/haste buffs instead of their original effects which may no longer be relevant). You add old enchants and sockets and trinkets with great itemisation and you're a power monster.

On one of my alts I just use my MOP Prideful Gladiators PVP set from MOP (2set is 5% damage, 4set is 5% haste) for old gems/enchants and then level 100 rings/cloak/neck because level 100 enchants on those items scale down really well and provide massive benefit. It's annoying that some max level trinkets are useless but I guess the scaling technology is not advanced enough yet to work differently on different types of items.

Like my class trinket goes from having I think a 42% chance to reset CS something around 1%, thus completely useless.

[Deleted]

Like my class trinket goes from having I think a 42% chance to reset CS something around 1%, thus completely useless.

Yeah I don't get that at all. From the very same instance some trinkets work well. Though I get the point of more careful gearing if one goes for farming the currency, I mainly play for the weekly quest if it's up.

[Raiju]

or i use just tyrant trinket and sit on 150k hp in tbc, challenge my ass

Is there an exploit to make this work? It doesn't work just by equipping it, hasn't since the day after it became widely known.

@Tobindax it's because it's all automatic. If a trinket's % is designed to scale UP with increased itemlevel, the reverse then happens in TW.

[Deleted]

Are you serious? Thanks to "proper gearing" (using the first cata healing set that is buyable for gold to get huge willpower boost) you essentially never run out of mana.

This allows you to heal up just about anything that is not oneshot.

My biggest problem in timewalking dungeons is the baaaaaaad dps so many ppl put up. most do not even get above 2k dps AND do not use proper gear.
Yes I know those dungeons are boring and faceroll. But even boring and faceroll gets better when you can complete it faster.

So my suggestion for anyone who doesn't like timewalking dungeons: grab some proper gear, do your 6k+ dps (or at least 4k when tanking - nope those numbers are not too low/high, they are adjusted to the current BC timewalking and are doable on all classes, tested it myself*) and/or get your infinite mana as a healer at least.

*= tested on my chars or seen when performed by other ppl. Numbers are averaged out between aoe dps on 4+ mobs (usually higher numbers, above 15k dps on several classes) and singletarget on bosses (usually lower numbers, down to 4k dps on some classes/specs).

[Bigbazz]

Yeah I don't get that at all. From the very same instance some trinkets work well. Though I get the point of more careful gearing if one goes for farming the currency, I mainly play for the weekly quest if it's up.

In my case I already had all my twink gear sitting in the bank from previous expansions, so when they introduced Timewalking I was like "Nice, I can use my Warglaives/Shadowmourne" etc. I've just got an outfitter set and I use the addon to pull it out of the bank when I'm doing timewalking, when I'm done it goes back in so after the initial putting together of the set it takes me no time to put it on for the 5 dungeons and makes a nice difference.

Even so though, without a twink set you can still do really well but it's very class/spec biased... With some specs you need a twink set just to begin to keep up, the balancing is off with low level numbers. Part of it is probably the balancing of low level PVP coming into play, like Protection Warriors Shield Slam below (i think 90) is completely useless, hits less than an auto-attack, that there is purely due to low level PVP balancing, as Protection Warriors were known for 1shotting players with Shield Slam in low level BG's.

It's undertuned spells on certain specs at low level that cause things to be stupid.

[Tziva]

I have run tons of TWing dungeons on multiple characters, even leveled one all the way from 90 to 100 that way. I've done it with friends, and random PuGs ranging from good to mediocre to bad. I have had no real issues with any of them ever until I did a Shattered Halls pug a couple days ago. I literally could not keep the tank up even spamming my fastest heal* with the next one queuing 100% of the time. With haste my cast time is 1.33 seconds and he would literally die in that time occasionally, and half the time I couldn't afford the GCD for cleanses or other abilities. We wiped three or four times in the dungeon due to the tank dying and the mobs chewing through the rest of the group, and I felt real bad for one of the melee who died at least twice that much because I could never spend the time to drop heals on anyone else but the tank outside of the boss fights. I have no idea WTF the issue was but I'm pretty confident that it wasn't me; I've healed "tanks" through these in DPS spec/gear with way less issue plus plenty of raid healing, etc. A couple of times the tank did pull multiple packs or was trying to keep moving, which doesn't work when you can't survive those seconds of the healer moving back in range. Everyone was nice enough but oy gevalt that was awful. I know the packs are big in SHattered Halls so you're getting hit by a lot of things simultaneously but going from full health to zero in barely over a second is ridiculous.

Always TL;DR a squishy tank makes a crazy difference. (I still want to know how it was even possible that he was that squishy)


* mana is basically infinite in timewalking as heals. GCD/Cast time is always the limiter, not mana.

[crazyman2]

I've had mostly smooth timewalking runs, but had an arc run the other day that was totally miserable on my druid. The tank was great, but the dps was alarmingly bad. We had a ret doing 400, a rogue doing 250, and a hunter doing 150. Tank was doing almost 3k and was like 75% of the damage on recount. Everything was going painfully slow, we wiped several times and I stayed much much longer than I should have.

And this is why silver proving grounds is a thing for WoD heroics, I wouldn't mind seeing a lower level version or it scaled to keep people that bad out of timewalking. Some people have no business doing group content, period.

[Tijuana]

After trying to heal 5 timewalking dungeons this morning I gave up out of frustration.
I have to pop burst heal CD's on TRASH just to help us survive because people don't understand even the very basics of running a proper dungeon.

Running Timewalking Dungeons on a healer is appearently about educating the Tank and the DPS how an actual "challenging" dungeon should be played.
Dps standing in front of mobs, Ranged standing in melee range of mobs (?), Tanks pulling everything they see and not face enemies away from the group, etc. etc.

Timewalking dungeons aren't overtuned and very doable, even in a respactable pace without having to worry about wipes. But I don't think that the current playerbase can handle this very well at all...
Guess I'll just farm on a dps again just to avoid the frustration of being the only one in the group that works his butt off (aka healer) >.>

I'm trying to think of a time my group wiped in TW, but I can't. I got myself killed a few times in the Cata ones but, never a full wipe. I'm dps btw so, it's not like I'm carrying.

[Krazzorx]

Wish they would've added Halls of Reflection in Wrath honestly instead of Pit of Saron.

[Villager720]

Wish they would've added Halls of Reflection in Wrath honestly instead of Pit of Saron.

Gross. That 5 man was terrible. I don't know why killing trash and bosses in a round room, especially following TOGC was a good idea. I also don't know why people remember it so fondly. Back in the day most everyone would groan when that loading screen popped up, and many would bail. Just like Occulus.

[Pua]

Are you serious? Thanks to "proper gearing" (using the first cata healing set that is buyable for gold to get huge willpower boost) you essentially never run out of mana.

You don't run out of mana anyway, really. My priest is running around largely in rubbish, yet I realised (I think Tziva mentioned it) that healers are GCD capped rather than mana. Once you figure that out, and shift to using Flash Heal instead of Heal when damage is high, things go a lot more smoothly. The first I noticed it was during a Shattered Halls run when the DK tank effectively pulled the entire first room and I had no choice but to spam Flash Heal on him. At this point, I didn't even have the time to spare a single GCD for a Renew on anyone else. He died.

Slightly later in that instance, the 560k DPS average rogue chewed me out for dying on Grand Warlock Nethekurse. Yes, he was stood in a void zone.

Over the weekend, I found out that it's extremely unluckly to get a really bad group - assuming you're not contributing to it. It's effectively four coin flips you get on a competent or incompetent player, and getting a group full of baddies is really unlikely. The biggest problem is the tank, though. If he's good, the run will largely go smoothly. If you get a bad tank, however, you're in for a rough road because you'll be spending all your time healing him rather than topping the group off and keeping the run going smoothly. Everything feels like it's a second to second life and death choice, which is stressful and not fun.

In my experience, I'm most wary of death knights. They seem to be the worst. Yet, when the player is a competent DK, I may as well not be there at all.

Gross. That 5 man was terrible. I don't know why killing trash and bosses in a round room, especially following TOGC was a good idea. I also don't know why people remember it so fondly. Back in the day most everyone would groan when that loading screen popped up, and many would bail. Just like Occulus.

That was certainly my experience in LFD, but I liked the Halls of Reflection. The set-piece speeches, the escape from Arthas, seeing the interior of Icecrown for the first time... There was a lot to like about it. My only real gripe was that players were largely spoiled by that time and disliked the fact that it was more challenging than anything else. This led to ditching, or the horrible "sit in the corner" play.