[Pre-Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Sangomah]

Out of interest. DId you use the Rings for the extra crit and/or trinkets? @Vanyali

[Jekuto]

Worked 100% fine for me. Just touchy, as usual.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ummary&fight=9

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yRjfB7KP1vz2YaNb


Two logs, because loldemo.



no video from me, geforce decided to be a dick and i didn't realize until testing started

God I was really hoping they gave the boot to animation cancelling.

[Vanyali]

Out of interest. DId you use the Rings for the extra crit and/or trinkets? @Vanyali

Both the rings, yes. My trinkets are uh.. i think a quest reward and i know the other is a dungeon.

[neck deep]

Both the rings, yes. My trinkets are uh.. i think a quest reward and i know the other is a dungeon.

yes, uriahs warmth is a quest reward from highmountain. also dem cleave fights.

[Deleted]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...t#type=summary
Nerf incoming

[Vanyali]

Was debating using Chaos Cleave.. but wanted more stuns for any errant flowers in melee. Knew it'd be broken af though when bosses were grouped

[Warstar]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...t#type=summary
Nerf incoming

Nerf on the over budget rings n shit lol. Dude you have like 100% crit...

[High Marshal Sigismund]

We have 4 months to convince Blizzard to make Felblade baseline.

It's going to be an incredibly uphill battle, we'll need millions in funds and 12,000 laborers, but we might be able to pull it off.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Since Bloodlet still states "any remaining damage will be added to the new Bloodlet", does that mean in order to use the talent to it's full potential you'd *want* to take Master of the Glaive?

[Warstar]

Since Bloodlet still states "any remaining damage will be added to the new Bloodlet", does that mean in order to use the talent to it's full potential you'd *want* to take Master of the Glaive?

Yes and No. Adds that come out every 20 seconds you could burst and get all your damage out in 10 seconds with a double Bloodlet debuff. But, on a cleave fight such as Xhul after the first hit and you use it on CD MotG essentially becomes worthless.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Yes and No. Adds that come out every 20 seconds you could burst and get all your damage out in 10 seconds with a double Bloodlet debuff. But, on a cleave fight such as Xhul after the first hit and you use it on CD MotG essentially becomes worthless.

Gotcha, thanks for the infos good sir.

I recall people saying they think MotG should be baseline. If it was, the current talent could probably give an additional charge of TG or something, and that'd be cool. That's my random blurb for the day.

[Factor]

Gotcha, thanks for the infos good sir.

I recall people saying they think MotG should be baseline. If it was, the current talent could probably give an additional charge of TG or something, and that'd be cool. That's my random blurb for the day.

Really needs to be able to have a charge be procced to be overly useful over the duration of a fight. The bleed would need to be capped at a set number of stacks though. Or drop the CD to 8 secs and keep the bleed rolling for 10-12 to allow actual overlap consistently.

[Warstar]

Really needs to be able to have a charge be procced to be overly useful over the duration of a fight. The bleed would need to be capped at a set number of stacks though. Or drop the CD to 8 secs and keep the bleed rolling for 10-12 to allow actual overlap consistently.

It's not "stacks" though. The damage is set in value. For instance if you were to try and game it for example say that the Bleed damage was for 10 damage a tick. You cast the first one, wait 5 seconds and then cast the second one and then 5 seconds later cast a 3rd you would start of at ticks of 10, then once you did the second TG you'd get ticks of 20 but eventually they would go back down to ticks of 10 not if you got a 3rd "stack" go up to 30. The way it works is that it allows for the damage to be added in rather than being over written.

[Factor]

It's not "stacks" though. The damage is set in value. For instance if you were to try and game it for example say that the Bleed damage was for 10 damage a tick. You cast the first one, wait 5 seconds and then cast the second one and then 5 seconds later cast a 3rd you would start of at ticks of 10, then once you did the second TG you'd get ticks of 20 but eventually they would go back down to ticks of 10 not if you got a 3rd "stack" go up to 30. The way it works is that it allows for the damage to be added in rather than being over written.

Oh I understand how it works currently, was just saying that in a scenario where MotG had more functionality like a proc enabling mor frequent use, there would need to be a cap on current applied damage i.e one use putting one stack of the 10 damage for ten seconds a second applying another 10 for ten overlapping for whatever portion they would overthwise a third applying another but capping so further applications can't take the damage to unreasonable levels. The confusion was my use of the word stack to mean one application of bloodlet implying it works like say Empty drinking horn for example, which is kno isn't the case.

[neck deep]

even if you could press nothing but throw glaive, there's no way that currently tuned bloodlet damage would ever get unreasonable. that shit suuuuuucks.

[Sangomah]

I tried Bloodlet yesterday and it was not worth the global on the boss, but you can help out on the adds.

That said, the rings and trinkets you can make, doesnt give a clear picture regarding dps, as you can not do that come live. It only shows how "broken" crit is for Demon Hunters. I refuse to use them to give a more "realistic" view on how we perform in a raid environment, so my logs hopefully reflect that.

That said, Demon Hunters feel rather strong right now. I'm not sure what kind of skill the people I was grouped with had, so its hard to give a definate standpoint. If anyone raids with their guilds, and espescially the 13/13 mythic ones, it would be nice to see how the dps looks there.

My best pulls were around 360-370k single target without the "cheese" items, and I was in the top 5 on every pull.

[Sarkol]

Why are people testing Havoc with massive over inflated crit values? What's the point of that exactly?

[Vanyali]

Why are people testing Havoc with massive over inflated crit values? What's the point of that exactly?

I did it this test to sim what might happen in later gear levels. Obviously an incomplete sim, as haste and mastery aren't similarly inflated, but it illuminates the huge issue with crit that DHs have NOW rather than doing so half-way through an expansion, in a way that makes it harder to dismiss than "lol, just spreadsheet" - no, we have logs of a guy that just spammed CS and Annihilation and nothing else because of his crit levels. That's insane, and what I've been saying on the forums for a while now, but there's logs backing it up this time.

[Deleted]

I tested with sangomah yesterday and you can see how rediculous overpowered our crit value is. For those who still had doubts for either haste or crit.
Crit wins by a long shot. I could compare very well with sangomah in "normal" gear and me with the crit rings with crit gem + crit bonus (about 4000 crit per ring)
ending up with 70% crit.

Thepulls where I didn't got rooted or had to move out I was beating him with sometimes retarded numbers. So I think there will be some
change incoming. Momentum feels clunky. Couldn't test it with the latency in raid. It took me a second even before I actually felrushed towards the boss.

Though in general I am very happy atm, aside the numbers tweaking, I think the demonic build is very fun to play and DH brings something to the table.
I used bloodlet during the whole testfase as much on cd as possible (not during meta or I had to move out cause of a boss ability) So I will check the logs
a bit more carefull. I think I need to agree that with a certain crit lvl where you crit a lot of chaos strikes, bloodlet becomes a bit absolete and felblade
is the one prefered.

And now........we wait


Also a small question regarding trinkets.
Is anyone evaluating them? I am trying to get the heroic nel. lair trinket. Seems to be doing very well for us.

[Soikona]

- - - Updated - - -



It's defintiely possible to make it more friendly as you said (i.e. next 3 abilities used after cast gain 20% increase instead) It's just a matter of implementation. The harder fight right now is actually just convincing people that because they don't like momentum it must immediatley be removed en masse which is starting to get echoed around, and if every talent a person didn't like was removed on those grounds then we wouldn't have any talents :P

I agree, the only problem I have with it all is FR animation cancel. Comparing the VR, FR just seems like an exploit/bug. If they prevent the animation cancel with FR then I will be very happy. As it stands, I still love the talent but just thing FR doesn't play a fantastic part.