[Pre-Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Vanyali]

That'd be some potent burst AoE. Oi.

DH gonna burst like a motherfucker, esp. with a momentum build.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

So according to Pawketz in the alpha thread, Fel Barrage charges are currently NOT proccing off of Blade Dance OR Chaos Strike. And that's kind of poopy. Would also explain why the proc chance seems virtually nonexistent.

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DH gonna burst like a motherfucker, esp. with a momentum build.

That thought crossed my mind watching your Suramar videos. Burst AoE always feels cool to me. And it looked fun as hell in your videos.

[Warstar]

So according to Pawketz in the alpha thread, Fel Barrage charges are currently NOT proccing off of Blade Dance OR Chaos Strike. And that's kind of poopy. Would also explain why the proc chance seems virtually nonexistent.

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That thought crossed my mind watching your Suramar videos. Burst AoE always feels cool to me. And it looked fun as hell in your videos.

Leveling up artifacts is only going to make it stronger as well.

RotI doubles FotI's damage, Anguish adds 20% damage to AoE. Inner Demons if it procs on AoE does pretty decent damage.

It makes me wonder though if FotI was intentionally nerfed and just wasn't posted to the tooltip yet. ST it's kinda poop especially without FotI but with even if it does shitty damage for a 1 min CD it's still worth the global. When it comes to AoE though it's pretty decent with FotI. Roughly 300kish damage (with FotI) per target on an instant cast ability is nothing to scoff at. And to top it off EB with Blind Fury does over 600k damage (would be even more with Anguish and fully maxed artifact mines hitting for 46k per tick with only 2/3 EB traits learned) so if you ask me if RotI does get put back to it's tool tip damage that would be way over the top. If FotI did tool tip damage with RotI + EB + Anguish with no crits you'd be doing 1.4m damage per mob in a 4.5 second window. Add in momentum, a Fel Rush and a 5 stack of Fel Barrage and that's over 2m damage per mob in a 7 second window...

DH AoE is pretty damn strong over all. I think when people talk about a lack of sustained AoE they're forgetting about a couple things: Fel Rush and Chaos Cleave. Chaos Cleave makes DH cleave damage pretty insane. People also forget that most aoe damage hits for much lower than a ST ability so when you double our main ST ability on a pack of 4-6 mobs it's really not lacking THAT much to a sustained aoe ability especially when you add in Annihilation which hit's like a truck full of bricks and dynamite. So between BD/TG/FR filling in with cleave between recharges is a pretty healthy AoE imo.

Totally completely inflated and snap shotted for extra emphasis but here's a large pull at the start of the arcway:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2584&end=20986

Obviously shit ton of mobs all grouped up together so not realistic in the slightest but that would have been even higher potentially if I had RotI and FotI for that and Anguish.

[Deleted]

Honestly with Demonic proccing only off Eyebeam it also makes our Eye beam legendary headpiece (Raddon's cascading Eyes) all the more powerfull. I do hope legendary's have a set circumstance where you can farm them because the interplay and benefits they provide seem too good to ignore.

[Sangomah]

As long as they are given as a random drop, it will be possible to "farm" them.
@Warstar those logs are personal. can't see them

[Raiju]

They've stated we'll be able to 'direct' our RNG increasing chances at a specific legendary but no further details really.

[Keltas]

The first legendary you'll equip is going to be that extra fury on DB hits one. That's like 40%~ more fury on average. It's useful in every situation and it takes a ring slot, so you won't even miss out on major stats if you get a low ilvl one or miss out on tier bonuses.

The eyebeam one honestly seems meh outside of AoE. Single target it's going to shave off what, 5 seconds if you crit every tick? It'll be amazing on AoE, but I'd only wear it on ST fights because there aren't really any other good ST ones.

Also looking through our legendaries, why do they ALL have to do with AoE? Don't we have enough like god damn. Most people have single target oriented ones that change their rotation. Ours are all like "your aoe does more if it hits a lot of targets yay".

On a kinda unrelated note, I found this ursoc trinket while looking through items. This thing sounds really good for us. (ignoring the mastery. The proc bleed is pretty nasty compared to other trinkets numbers).
http://legion.wowhead.com/item=13932...806#dropped-by

[Baelroc]

The first legendary you'll equip is going to be that extra fury on DB hits one. That's like 40%~ more fury on average. It's useful in every situation and it takes a ring slot, so you won't even miss out on major stats if you get a low ilvl one or miss out on tier bonuses.

The eyebeam one honestly seems meh outside of AoE. Single target it's going to shave off what, 5 seconds if you crit every tick? It'll be amazing on AoE, but I'd only wear it on ST fights because there aren't really any other good ST ones.

Also looking through our legendaries, why do they ALL have to do with AoE? Don't we have enough like god damn. Most people have single target oriented ones that change their rotation. Ours are all like "your aoe does more if it hits a lot of targets yay".

On a kinda unrelated note, I found this ursoc trinket while looking through items. This thing sounds really good for us. (ignoring the mastery. The proc bleed is pretty nasty compared to other trinkets numbers).
http://legion.wowhead.com/item=13932...806#dropped-by

I agree. I really hope we aren't being pidgeon-holed into "the AoE DPS class". AoE is fun, but ultimately its not what people look at when evaluating bringing something to a raid (or at the very least is only looked at when AoE matters , Mannoroth imps for example).

[Sarkol]

I think Demonic would be excellent if it replaced our permanent Meta CD. Give us 2-3 ways of proccing it for 5 seconds, but let it replace the Meta CD completely. That should see it somewhat balanced. At least easier to balance.

[Baelroc]

I think Demonic would be excellent if it replaced our permanent Meta CD. Give us 2-3 ways of proccing it for 5 seconds, but let it replace the Meta CD completely. That should see it somewhat balanced. At least easier to balance.

I agree with this as well. Or possibly just have Demonic flat out cut the CD of Meta to 2 or 3 minutes instead of 5 (4 with artifact).

[jayinjersey]

I've always thought since Meta was supposed to be the Demon in you being unleashed as it can't the rage any longer, I've always envisioned something like [every time your Rage bar fills from less than 10% to more than 90%, your demonic energy gains 1 stack. At 10 stacks you transform into Meta for X+%Mastery seconds]


Needs some tweaking...but it would give a + to Mastery and definitely give an edge to the smarter dps by having them know not to trigger Meta if boss is about to move or whatever.


Just always felt the Meta was supposed to be more "Out of our Control"

[nox597]

I've always thought since Meta was supposed to be the Demon in you being unleashed as it can't the rage any longer, I've always envisioned something like [every time your Rage bar fills from less than 10% to more than 90%, your demonic energy gains 1 stack. At 10 stacks you transform into Meta for X+%Mastery seconds]


Needs some tweaking...but it would give a + to Mastery and definitely give an edge to the smarter dps by having them know not to trigger Meta if boss is about to move or whatever.


Just always felt the Meta was supposed to be more "Out of our Control"

I think they were sort of aiming for that with the PvP talent that triggers Meta... As your health goes towards the red, you're less and less able to control the demon within.

I think it would be interesting if they made demonic baseline, then added in a new talent. Perhaps something like Illidan's second phase, where he throws his glaives into the ground, and summons fel elementals. "Throw your off hand glaive at target location, spawning a fel elemental for 15 seconds that does chaos damage and (insert some utility here). During this time, all weapon attacks do not do off hand damage." It would gimp our personal damage output for a bit of time, but potentially increase our total damage.

Granted, lore-wise, that may have just been a thing that the Twinblades of Azzinoth did, and not our glaives, but... It could be kind of fun.

Also, I have been watching some Warcraft 3 gameplay recently, and noticed that Illidan leaves flaming hoofprints everywhere he goes... That would be pretty awesome to have, whenever in Meta form (even if it did no damage)!

[Vanyali]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x7Ww1zkNBpQ9rfZG

Star Augar, doing a fel barrage / fel eruption / nemesis build. Momentum is DEADLY on this fight >_<

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x7Ww1zkNBpQ9rfZG

Star Augar, doing a fel barrage / fel eruption / nemesis build. Momentum is DEADLY on this fight >_<

Deadly as in good, or deadly as in "oh hey, i'm dead again" ?

[Vanyali]

Deadly as in good, or deadly as in "oh hey, i'm dead again" ?

deadly as in "oh, look, the tank moved and now i'm dead."

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

-Fel Eruption is bonkers, as expected.

-Were you only using Fel Barrage when you got 5 charges?

- What made you want to take Fel Barrage for this particular fight? Not saying you're dumb, you're a tester, just wondering (since i haven't seen videos or streams of the fight yet) if there were circumstances that made it a viable option or if you were taking it for testing's sake.

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deadly as in "oh, look, the tank moved and now i'm dead."

i lol'd IRL reading this. I'm sorry for laughing at your misery.

[wordup]

@wordup

Having watched your Enhancement videos as well, what is it you feel Havoc needs in terms of rotational flow? Anything you feel could be tweaked to get to some of that same smoothness you seem to find in Enhance? Anything need to be added? Removed?

I think Havoc generally is on the very cusp of being perfect, but I know that part of the flow I enjoy with Enhancement is having at least a small amount of Buff/Debuff management alongside the active damage. That's not necessarily something that's needed or should be translated to every melee. Something like Demonic in its first pass gave the spec a great amount of flow to the spec with up and down burst periods, which isn't really there anymore. It just seems to be missing one core mechanic (proc, buff management, short burst CD/charge system) even with a very complimentary talent style to really hit the spot for me compared to Enhancement.

That being said, I think it's also refreshing they're trying something new that doesn't do the whole paint by numbers spec design of giving a little of this and a little of that from [bag of general mechanics] and are focusing on end design goal, which is a class that feels like your damage is on the knife's edge based on if you start or stop your damage.

[Vanyali]

-Fel Eruption is bonkers, as expected.

-Were you only using Fel Barrage when you got 5 charges?

- What made you want to take Fel Barrage for this particular fight? Not saying you're dumb, you're a tester, just wondering (since i haven't seen videos or streams of the fight yet) if there were circumstances that made it a viable option or if you were taking it for testing's sake.

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i lol'd IRL reading this. I'm sorry for laughing at your misery.

Just wanted see the damage it did, no other reason. Would be somewhat useful in the last phase where there are a bunch of other adds. Only ever used it at 5 stacks.


Krosus logs, same build except Demonic

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Jgc86YKmP3nbyzw9

[Deleted]

Demonic appetite is not the best talent on demon boss like Krosus?

[neck deep]

if they make fel barrage proc from things other than throw glaive and fury of the illidari, it'll be 5 stacks nearly constantly. even just adding eyebeam for procs on aoe packs would be insane towards it's potential. it also seem to have a bugged crit rate right now. i hit a dummy for about 2 hours and it crit about 6% of the time where everything else was at 32ish percent, with my 31% crit chance.