[Pre-Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Vanyali]

Blade Dance! Have you not noticed how you can't reset BD anymore? Prior to this patch in AoE situations in dungeons I found myself resetting and using Blade Dance A LOT especially once mobs started dying and while soloing you could basically EB > Spam BD til stuff was dead. Kinda OP and the 100% dodge was really nice since you basically had a passive blur but ya... I miss that

Mainly though was just thinking about the extra AoE damage from Blind Fury since Annihilation no longer does AoE damage pretty sure that in an AoE fight Blind Fury would win over the others but even ST the damage that it does is pretty good so that's why I was curious to see if the extra damage/1 second cast time would out weigh 3 DA procs a minute.

Was it? With my haste the CD is low enough that it wasn't a big change whether or not it dropped it for me

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I wouldn't worry about it. The dev's know when people are spouting nonsense, and probably have some internal tool to ignore further feedback from them (that isn't a bug). As for demonic appetite... I don't think it's guaranteed after that 20s.

And don't lump all us alpha testers together! :P

Also keep in mind alpha testers come from all different backgrounds (and this is important). While a LOT of testers were from big waves inviting people in 13/13M guilds, a lot of testers are also casuals, or pvpers, or fall somewhere either in between or a mix of those. Some of us got in just because we're lucky enough to know a blizzard employee. Believe it or not, there ARE people in 13/13M guilds who actually don't do any theory on their own, and have it spoon-fed by guildies in their class... they're just naturally good players.

Not legitimately worried about the Dev's getting the wrong idea, it's just a pet peeve of mine when someone who I'm assuming would be better in the know of what's what with testing Havoc states that something is useless and states the one change he feels was the reason the problem isn't fixed, without acknowledging the artifact trait which isn't exactly a small deal in regards to Blade Dance and it's identity.

Not lumping you all together, i was mostly referencing the dudes talking about Demonic Appetite. I'm honestly not able to actually test it myself and kind of go off the word of what most of you say, however, until it's otherwise been proven false, it'll be really easy for me to take Wordup's take on it which is that there *seems* to be a 20 second ICD. Whether or not you get a Chaos Strike off exactly every 20 seconds can attribute to it possibly feeling random though I'd say.

And I do get that there's more than just Mythic raiders being invited to the alpha, and i do find that to be a positive. Gotta get all the perspectives you can. Anytime I see PvP feedback, I just completely gloss over it, since that's not something that particularly interests me, for instance; but is really great for those who plan to PvP as Havoc.

[Vanyali]

@Unanilnomen

most people in alpha can't find the "new build deployed" post on the forum they're post on, let alone find mmo / wowhead for patch notes, and blizz isn't releasing 'em. sad but true. mmo is a minority of most people that play wow

[Warstar]

Was it? With my haste the CD is low enough that it wasn't a big change whether or not it dropped it for me

What's your haste at?

Btw some things I found interesting. Anguish can crit. With Blind Fury was getting some 270k crits with that which added on to the damage that EB does already that's pretty decent. Depending on crits with Blind Fury that's upwards of 1m damage to one target. Rage of the Illidari explodes off of you not based off where you dropped FotI so you could effectively game it to fluff adds and then explode onto the boss which is actually kinda cool. With 2 targets I was getting around 500k RofI procs. One thing that's annoying though is that FotI can be parried.

Inner Demons is terribad. Would be nice if they tied it into Chaos Nova instead of Chaos Strike. Would actually be able to time it on AoE packs and make it useful. The randomness of the ability is its downfall. On a fight like Iskar has a 100% chance to never proc on the adds cause RNG sucks (except for that one lucky bastard who gets multiple on all packs and parses way higher because of it).

But ya back to the whole Blind Fury thing I forgot about anguish. So, not only does the talent add an extra 5 ticks of damage (was getting around 50k ticks at 110) it adds an extra 50k damage from anguish. The two talents to me at least seem kind of close as far as ST goes but for AoE Blind Fury just seems like it will be way stronger.

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mmo is a minority of most people that play wow

That's cause all the best information is off of Noxxic. I can't wait to read their DH guide to tell me how to play.

[Vanyali]

That's cause all the best information is off of Noxxic. I can't wait to read their DH guide to tell me how to play.

fucking TRIGGERED.

*twitches*

looking up haste now. I know raid scaled up it was something like 20%.

17% w/o scaling.

[Warstar]

fucking TRIGGERED.

*twitches*

looking up haste now. I know raid scaled up it was something like 20%.

17% w/o scaling.

Noxxic is love. Noxxic is life.... I need to take a shower after saying that I feel dirty now.

One thing that's pretty niffty is that hero effects the CDs too. Death Sweep under hero with meta is up soooooooo much and with higher haste levels it's going to be even faster.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

Is Eye Beam's cooldown also reduced by haste? Or is it too long of a cooldown to be considered rotational and be reduced as such?

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

@Unanilnomen

most people in alpha can't find the "new build deployed" post on the forum they're post on, let alone find mmo / wowhead for patch notes, and blizz isn't releasing 'em. sad but true. mmo is a minority of most people that play wow

Buh, I do forget that perspective every once in awhile. I far too often forget that people don't always go out of their way to get as much information as possible before providing feedback.

I just assume (incorrectly) that it would be a given that you at least take a look around before providing feedback for something that is very much dependent on it to improve. Luckily, as was stated earlier, the Dev's aren't likely to mind feedback that's stating the wrong information. However, we've seen what happens when someone starts talking loudly about how terrible something is without having a full view of how things actually are; which is where the "2 buttons kek" and related bullshit came from.

[Warstar]

Is Eye Beam's cooldown also reduced by haste? Or is it too long of a cooldown to be considered rotational and be reduced as such?

Only Blade Dance, Felblade and Demon Spikes are reduced by haste. Haste does not alter EB's CD nor does it effect it's cast time the last time I checked but I could be mistaken on that. It would be nice if haste effected it in some way. The whole "haste effects CDs" is kinda poopy for DH since so few abilities are effected by it. Not like Enhance Shaman or ret/prot paladins who get massive rotational changes with haste stacking.

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However, we've seen what happens when someone starts talking loudly about how terrible something is without having a full view of how things actually are; which is where the "2 buttons kek" and related bullshit came from.

As the all wise Brik Tamland once said, "LOUD NOISES!"

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

As the all wise Brik Tamland once said, "LOUD NOISES!"

I lol'd IRL. Definitely relevant.

[wordup]

@Unanilnomen

most people in alpha can't find the "new build deployed" post on the forum they're post on, let alone find mmo / wowhead for patch notes, and blizz isn't releasing 'em. sad but true. mmo is a minority of most people that play wow

Good job there's a shiny doc to show the new changes *hint hint*!

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Is Eye Beam's cooldown also reduced by haste? Or is it too long of a cooldown to be considered rotational and be reduced as such?

As far as I'm aware, CD and cast time are both not affected. I don't think realistically its CD will be reduced because of the implications on talents, the cast time is likely to be changed.

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As the all wise Brik Tamland once said, "LOUD NOISES!"

It's sad this is all too true now the "annihilation NEEDS TO BE AOE to be good" echo chamber started :P I just wonder if the same people who demand it for viability in said threads would complain just as loud when a fight like Dark Animus shows up and your cooldown reduces your damage by 90% on important targets; instead of fixing it now to have a dual ST and AoE component instead :l

[Warstar]

It's sad this is all too true now the "annihilation NEEDS TO BE AOE to be good" echo chamber started :P I just wonder if the same people who demand it for viability in said threads would complain just as loud when a fight like Dark Animus shows up and your cooldown reduces your damage by 90% on important targets; instead of fixing it now to have a dual ST and AoE component instead :l

Not to mention rogues and player pets would be unkillable in pvp. It kinda sucks already that our hardest hitting abilities BD/DS are aoe and will get reduced in those situations already.

Also, there's the problem that if all DH do is strong AoE then they'll fall into the trap that I'm sure you're all too familiar with and be dubbed the "AoE" class and be jack shit at everything else.

[Cooper]

Players are, for the most part, complete shit at providing balance feedback because the vast majority of them believe the game is unbalanced unless their favorite class has a machine gun when everybody else has a rock.

[Vanyali]

Good job there's a shiny doc to show the new changes *hint hint*!

you could nail it to their door and some wow players still wouldn't see or care about it that's all i meant. your doc is amazing for those that are actually looking!

[Warstar]

you could nail it to their door and some wow players still wouldn't see or care about it that's all i meant. your doc is amazing for those that are actually looking!

Vanyali and Wordup sitting in a tree T H E O R I Z I N G. First comes leveling then comes raiding then comes loot in a baby carriage.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Vanyali and Wordup sitting in a tree T H E O R I Z I N G. First comes leveling then comes raiding then comes loot in a baby carriage.

Get out.
That was bad and you should feel bad.

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J/K I luv u don't leave meh

[ChakanDH]

Cos I'm lazy and cant be arsed looking back for the link to the said document, can you relink it for me please Word?

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Cos I'm lazy and cant be arsed looking back for the link to the said document, can you relink it for me please Word?

Orloth put it on the OP near the top.

[ChakanDH]

Orloth put it on the OP near the top.

He did indeed - chur cuz

[Vanyali]

Vanyali and Wordup sitting in a tree T H E O R I Z I N G. First comes leveling then comes raiding then comes loot in a baby carriage.

you are literally the worst human being.