Chimpanzees & Monkeys have entered the Stone Age

[Raphtheone]

"Giving a nuke to a caveman" suddenly went from a thought experiment to one we actually can test. Lets give rivaling groups nukes and observe. For science!

[Deleted]

lets give them axes and knives and see what happens

I think that, instead of that, in the interest of freedom, equality and happiness, we should give them guns. I mean, that's the only way they can protect their jungles from intruders, thieves, murderers and terrorists.

[mizeri]

I think that, instead of that, in the interest of freedom, equality and happiness, we should give them guns. I mean, that's the only way they can protect their jungles from intruders, thieves, murderers and terrorists.

and those freeloading gorillas

[Cthulhu 2020]

Planet of the apes, here we come.

- - - Updated - - -

I think that, instead of that, in the interest of freedom, equality and happiness, we should give them guns. I mean, that's the only way they can protect their jungles from intruders, thieves, murderers and terrorists.

They also need to protect themselves from TYRANNY.

[imabanana]

I could see that. I think we have a tendency to underestimate apes, seen orangutan climb in boats, unhook the chain binding the boat to a dock and use their large arms to steer.

I'd say the complete opposite. We have a tendency to overestimate them. Research on animal intelligence has had a very strong focus on them for decades, and results were far from good. While other animals proved to be much better at problem solving involving use of tools or logic, like crows for example.

Edit: not to mention fiction litterature/movies about them, we almost always picture them as more intelligent than in reality.

[Techno-Druid]

i wouldn't consider it the stone age until they're building things with stone.

actual hammers, homes, other tools. when they figure out weapon making, flint mapping spears and such, then i'll be impressed and that will be the stone age.

In West Africa the chimpanzees make spears by ripping off branches, sharpening the tips with their teeth and using them to hunt bush babies and monkeys. Apes already make homes. Chimpanzees and bonobos construct a sort of mattress in the trees with supports underneath. Orangutans will add "pillows" "blankets" "roofs" and "bunk beds" to their nests as well.

Chimpanzees, Bonobos and Orangutans have culture.

- - - Updated - - -

I'd say the complete opposite. We have a tendency to overestimate them. Research on animal intelligence has had a very strong focus on them for decades, and results were far from good. While other animals proved to be much better at problem solving involving use of tools or logic, like crows for example.

Edit: not to mention fiction litterature/movies about them, we almost always picture them as more intelligent than in reality.

Hyenas are also better at problem solving and working together, but they cannot recognize themselves in mirrors, they do not have individual group cultures that are passed down from generation to generation, they fear fire indefinitely, but chimps do not.

You say the results were far from good, but besides from Nim Chimpsky and a few other earlier common chimpanzee experiments. But Kanzi surpassed expectations, as did Koko and Chantek.

[Flutterguy]

Hundreds of thousands of years from now, when they can work and drive flying cars, will we mate with them or consider them lesser beings?

Will we keep them in future zoos or will we acknowledge their independence?

Some people mate with them now.

[imabanana]

You say the results were far from good, but besides from Nim Chimpsky and a few other earlier common chimpanzee experiments. But Kanzi surpassed expectations, as did Koko and Chantek.

I'm more talking about wild ones, about what they learn and solve by themselves, not the ones we trained for this.

Random apes aren't very good at solving a lot of problems without training, random crows or octopuses are. Yes, there's been a few exceptional results with apes, but that's not really common (and they definitely helped at this "overestimation" imo, there's huge difference between a a random ape and one that spent its whole life being trained for some specific purposes).

[Techno-Druid]

Some people mate with them now.

I think you're confusing chimpanzees with Floridians, which is something the chimpanzees and bonobos of the world find offensive.

[gyrados]

Some people had even better idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhxqIITtTtU

ty for showing this video so funny lmfao

[chrisnumbers]

Enough is enough!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4t6zNZ-b0A

[Techno-Druid]

I'm more talking about wild ones, about what they learn and solve by themselves, not the ones we trained for this.

Random apes aren't very good at solving a lot of problems without training, random crows or octopuses are. Yes, there's been a few exceptional results with apes, but that's not really common (and they definitely helped at this "overestimation" imo, there's huge difference between a a random ape and one that spent its whole life being trained for some specific purposes).

Problem solving is not something that directly indicates intelligence imo. Many animals outperform us in that field and we're arguably more intelligent.

I'd urge to look up Kanzi the Bonobo, understandably I reference him a lot, but he's widely considered the most intelligent nonhuman currently living. Kanzi's unique because he's never been directly trained, he learned to understand English and use a keyboard to communicate as a baby by watching his mother being taught unsuccessfully by researchers, he learned to make fires largely independently by watching his favorite movie "Quest for Fire" and making mounds of sticks and such, later being taught to use matches and lighters. He learned sign language by watching videos of other apes that knew sign language and he naturally learned human body language such as nodding and pointing. He's unique to other bonobos, but he shows you what one is truly capable of.

[imabanana]

Problem solving is not something that directly indicates intelligence imo. Many animals outperform us in that field and we're arguably more intelligent.

I'd urge to look up Kanzi the Bonobo, understandably I reference him a lot, but he's widely considered the most intelligent nonhuman currently living. Kanzi's unique because he's never been directly trained, he learned to understand English and use a keyboard to communicate as a baby by watching his mother being taught unsuccessfully by researchers, he learned to make fires largely independently by watching his favorite movie "Quest for Fire" and making mounds of sticks and such, later being taught to use matches and lighters. He learned sign language by watching videos of other apes that knew sign language and he naturally learned human body language such as nodding and pointing. He's unique to other bonobos, but he shows you what one is truly capable of.

I'm not saying other animals are more intelligent, I'm saying the way we overrated apes intelligence undermined the study of a lot of other species that have a lot of interesting traits. And yes, I know Kanzi and other quite well, I've studied psychology with a focus on animal behaviour for a few years, Konrad Lorentz is one of my favourite authors, not only a brilliant scientist that dared to look somewhere others didn't, but also one of the few that can write nobel-worthy books that my grandmother could understand

There are a few exceptions, but the vast majority of attempts to "raise" apes had quite terrible results, I'm pretty sure we could have learned a lot more about animal intelligence if some of it had been directed at other animals, a lot of them show traits that are really worthy of being studied more in depth (while costing a fragment of what we spent on research on ape).

[ro9ue]

Hundreds of thousands of years from now, when they can work and drive flying cars, will we mate with them or consider them lesser beings?

Will we keep them in future zoos or will we acknowledge their independence?

A chimp makes a tool which was the foundation of human advancement and all you want to know is when is it okay to fuck it.

Nice.

[Meralus II]

A chimp makes a tool which was the foundation of human advancement and all you want to know is when is it okay to fuck it.

Nice.

Welcome to the internet.

[Deleted]

Problem solving is not something that directly indicates intelligence imo. Many animals outperform us in that field and we're arguably more intelligent.

I'd urge to look up Kanzi the Bonobo, understandably I reference him a lot, but he's widely considered the most intelligent nonhuman currently living. Kanzi's unique because he's never been directly trained, he learned to understand English and use a keyboard to communicate as a baby by watching his mother being taught unsuccessfully by researchers, he learned to make fires largely independently by watching his favorite movie "Quest for Fire" and making mounds of sticks and such, later being taught to use matches and lighters. He learned sign language by watching videos of other apes that knew sign language and he naturally learned human body language such as nodding and pointing. He's unique to other bonobos, but he shows you what one is truly capable of.

Too much useless research is spent on chimpanzees. The issue with intelligence is we're only comparing human intelligence to animals.

[Originality]

Too much useless research is spent on chimpanzees. The issue with intelligence is we're only comparing human intelligence to animals.

What kind of other intelligence are you advocating for?

[Kathandira]

This reminds me of an Eddie Izzard skit.