[Speculation - Legion] Doomhammer, 2-Hands not DW?

[Bangaa]

Can we get back to the discussion instead of making underhanded comments about different posters?

Personally I would like to see 2h come back as an option (be it through talent or something else) I played a rogue in vanilla and when you saw a shaman with the unstoppable force or better you knew it was a roll of the dice if you were getting chucked for major damage from an auto-attack, this can't come back.

Now say you get a talent (let's replace Feral Kin because right now it looks horrible imo) that is called Blessing of the Windlord it grants you a certain amount of passive and an ability called Wind Strike (N.N.F.) that causes you to attack 3 times in succession for some amount of damage replaces Lava Lash. Does AoE damage when under the effect of Crash Lightning. Animations are already there, use a 2h variant of a Warrior's Rampage for the single target attack and Whirlwind for the AoE.

To the people who like DW enhancement what is the problem with having this as an option?

[Murderdoll]

To the people who like DW enhancement what is the problem with having this as an option?

Because if it is ANYTHING but a Transmog option, it needs to be viable. You cant have it as an option and it be absolutely rubbish.

Look at Frost. Theyve removed that split design for a very specific reason. Its far to hard to make a spec viable for two weapon types within the same spec. Its simply not worth the dev time.

Youre all caught up in this rose tinted glasses of Lucky Windfury. Youre all latching onto this notion that a 5% chance to one shot people was amazingly awesome and you want a return to the glorydays.

We dont want it because instead of splitting development time between DW and 2H we want a focused development path. The last thing Enhance needs is more tangents.

If it is simply Transmog and away you go. Fine, do it.

[nazrakin]

Can we get back to the discussion instead of making underhanded comments about different posters?

Personally I would like to see 2h come back as an option (be it through talent or something else) I played a rogue in vanilla and when you saw a shaman with the unstoppable force or better you knew it was a roll of the dice if you were getting chucked for major damage from an auto-attack, this can't come back.

Now say you get a talent (let's replace Feral Kin because right now it looks horrible imo) that is called Blessing of the Windlord it grants you a certain amount of passive and an ability called Wind Strike (N.N.F.) that causes you to attack 3 times in succession for some amount of damage replaces Lava Lash. Does AoE damage when under the effect of Crash Lightning. Animations are already there, use a 2h variant of a Warrior's Rampage for the single target attack and Whirlwind for the AoE.

To the people who like DW enhancement what is the problem with having this as an option?

I dont have a problem with it as an option. However, I do think that in an expansion where they've killed such options for others like Frost and Mistweaver, its highly unlikely that they're about to change their minds about enhancement.

[Futhark]

If it is simply Transmog and away you go. Fine, do it.

This is the only viable solution. And without an equippable item to actually put in offhand with actual stats ("energy" offhand? lol) , I see no reason why it couldn't be an option for those who just like 2Hd.

[Arinnaya]

I don't mind it being dual-wield, but I'd much rather see a Lava Lash like Thrall does in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1SdVC2mrz8 (not necessarily at range, mind). I think it would be the perfect fit for a "melee spell-caster" - one hand with a weapon and the other harnessing the elements. With the artefacts, it could work perfectly, have a "Hand of the Elements" dummy weapon that's invisible (but contains stats and triggers the correct animations).

[Deleted]

The AU Doomhammer would be perfect as offhand but instead we're getting a stupid flaming version? Come on people, let's start hounding the blizz devs for them to let us have the AU Doomhammer as well.

[Deleted]

The AU Doomhammer would be perfect as offhand but instead we're getting a stupid flaming version? Come on people, let's start hounding the blizz devs for them to let us have the AU Doomhammer as well.

I'd rather keep it as it is, because us getting the Doomhammer is gunna be a big deal. Thrall is going to mention the possibility that it was destined to come to us all along and that the prophecy surrounding it might have never been about him at all.

The AU Doomhammer would rather mess with the narrative there.

[The Madgod]

The AU Doomhammer would be perfect as offhand but instead we're getting a stupid flaming version? Come on people, let's start hounding the blizz devs for them to let us have the AU Doomhammer as well.

That sounds narratively contrived and undermines the accomplishment. Never mind how silly it would be in the story.

*Thrall bequeaths us the Doomhammer after his fall, and we take it to the other shaman and prepare to fight the legion*
*but first, a bit of a stop at Ogrim's grave in AU Draenor to get the other hammer*

That just seems like it'd totally wreck the narrative flow, for no real good reason other than just having the other hammer... when we were never intended to care about it. Never mind that I'd kinda feel icky if my shaman went and grave-robbed someone who was actually a pretty good guy in the end.

And even if Thrall somehow managed to have the other one on his possession (he shouldn't, that'd be kinda assholish to do and he wouldn't do that), just him giving you OUR doomhammer, the legacy of all of that... oh and then here take another one too that I took from the alternate Orgrim's grave.

[Deleted]

That sounds narratively contrived and undermines the accomplishment. Never mind how silly it would be in the story.

*Thrall bequeaths us the Doomhammer after his fall, and we take it to the other shaman and prepare to fight the legion*
*but first, a bit of a stop at Ogrim's grave in AU Draenor to get the other hammer*

That just seems like it'd totally wreck the narrative flow, for no real good reason other than just having the other hammer... when we were never intended to care about it. Never mind that I'd kinda feel icky if my shaman went and grave-robbed someone who was actually a pretty good guy in the end.

And even if Thrall somehow managed to have the other one on his possession (he shouldn't, that'd be kinda assholish to do and he wouldn't do that), just him giving you OUR doomhammer, the legacy of all of that... oh and then here take another one too that I took from the alternate Orgrim's grave.

Well, it doesn't have to be Thrall. One way of having the AU Dhaman involved would be for them to arrive and present the AU Doomhammer to the PC after the PC has claimed the MU Doomhammer.

To be honest, one reason is because I do not consider the Doomhammer be such significant weapon. But two of it is a whole other deal.

[Deleted]

Well, it doesn't have to be Thrall. One way of having the AU Dhaman involved would be for them to arrive and present the AU Doomhammer to the PC after the PC has claimed the MU Doomhammer.

To be honest, one reason is because I do not consider the Doomhammer be such significant weapon. But two of it is a whole other deal.

It is the quintessential orcish weapon of prophecy. That's kinda a Really Big Thing, having two would undermine the impact on the story IMO.

[Ielenia]

has it ever been a 2h?

The Doomhammer may be thought to be two-handed due to its size, but it's a one-handed weapon. I believe we can see Thrall use it one-handed at the end of SoO against Garrosh, and in the Hyjal raid. Only once, as far as I can recall, it was used as two-handed, which is the Garrosh kill cinematic.

[Deleted]

The Doomhammer may be thought to be two-handed due to its size, but it's a one-handed weapon. I believe we can see Thrall use it one-handed at the end of SoO against Garrosh, and in the Hyjal raid. Only once, as far as I can recall, it was used as two-handed, which is the Garrosh kill cinematic.

It's kinda like how a bastard sword is a one-and-a-half-hander TBH. It can be wielded either one-handed or two-handed, depending on the situation and whether it's paired with another weapon/shield.

[The Madgod]

Well, it doesn't have to be Thrall. One way of having the AU Dhaman involved would be for them to arrive and present the AU Doomhammer to the PC after the PC has claimed the MU Doomhammer.

To be honest, one reason is because I do not consider the Doomhammer be such significant weapon. But two of it is a whole other deal.

That's even worse though.

You are about to set off to prepare to fight the legion

*a shaman in traditional orcish clothing shouts "WAIIIIIIT!" and runs up to you, panting*
*He holds out his hands, the Doomhammer resting on a cloth*
"I brought this for you. Totally stole it from Doomhammer's grave, and somehow knew that you were getting that other Doomhammer people care more about. Cheers!"

Purposefully made more comedic than what it'd be in the game, but the gist of the effect is there and the issues with the idea are highlighted.

It couldn't work in any other way because of the nature of how Enhancement functions. It would be pretty stupid to get THE Doomhammer, and then get a second one later on for again what strikes me as a purely arbitrary reason. Not only because of lore, but because of gameplay as well. You'd only get one half of your artifact set for some period of time? That has a lot of bad gameplay potential. And again, the pacing of that would be awkward as well. The formula for Legion's beginning sequence is that you go to the Broken Shore and something goes down. You go and found your class hall. And then you go get your artifact. And then you go and take on the legion (as I recall). So getting the second half of your artifact some time later after that is REALLY weird and REALLY bad, I think.

The Doomhammer is one of the most important, significant weapons in the history of Warcraft. It's THE orcish weapon. It's important enough for Blizzard to say "Yeah, let's commission Epic Weapons to make a proper scale replica for people." The only other weapon that has had that honor is Frostmourne, which I would argue is THE most significant weapon in the history of Warcraft and is the most iconic weapon thereof.

[nazrakin]

The Doomhammer may be thought to be two-handed due to its size, but it's a one-handed weapon. I believe we can see Thrall use it one-handed at the end of SoO against Garrosh, and in the Hyjal raid. Only once, as far as I can recall, it was used as two-handed, which is the Garrosh kill cinematic.

Eh, even in that cinematic he does an overhead attack with two hands but every other swing in that video is with 1h.

[Bangaa]

Because if it is ANYTHING but a Transmog option, it needs to be viable. You cant have it as an option and it be absolutely rubbish.

Look at Frost. Theyve removed that split design for a very specific reason. Its far to hard to make a spec viable for two weapon types within the same spec. Its simply not worth the dev time.

Youre all caught up in this rose tinted glasses of Lucky Windfury. Youre all latching onto this notion that a 5% chance to one shot people was amazingly awesome and you want a return to the glorydays.

We dont want it because instead of splitting development time between DW and 2H we want a focused development path. The last thing Enhance needs is more tangents.

If it is simply Transmog and away you go. Fine, do it.

I'm not caught up in the "rose-tinting" I even said in my post that the random burst for 60-100% of your HP can't come back. I'd be okay with a transmog / glyph system but to counter-act the DW attack speed you would be swinging the weapon to fast and I don't think it would look right, that's why I think a talent would be a better solution.

My suggestion is a little different then the case with Frost because Frost had the baseline ability to switch between DW and 2h while a talent that causes you to 2h instead of DW would have to go through the same balancing process as Lone Wolf and Grimoire of Sacrifice or the balance between Feral Kin, Ascendance and Earthen Spike.

To use a different example, what is the difference in difficulty between balancing the Shadow Priest's talent Mind Spike and Surrender to Madness while comparing that to a Shaman's Blessing of the Windlord (My 2h Talent) and Ascendance. Both are talents that replace an ability that are put up against a large DPS cooldown.

I dont have a problem with it as an option. However, I do think that in an expansion where they've killed such options for others like Frost and Mistweaver, its highly unlikely that they're about to change their minds about enhancement.

I have no counter-argument for that because it's true. Unfortunately they are killing some options for the sake of "Class Identity" My only suggestion would be to have the 2h play extremely similar to the DW variant since both the Mistweaver Monks and Frost Death Knights play-style options were decently different.

The Doomhammer may be thought to be two-handed due to its size, but it's a one-handed weapon. I believe we can see Thrall use it one-handed at the end of SoO against Garrosh, and in the Hyjal raid. Only once, as far as I can recall, it was used as two-handed, which is the Garrosh kill cinematic.

Like Lokann says below it's more of a one-and-a-half size. This hilt has been replaced (Rise of the Horde book) so what's to say we can't just replace Thrall's version of the Doomhammer with a hilt long enough to two-hand.

[Rend Blackhand]

I'd love it. Given that weapons themselves aren't dropping in raids we won't cause any competition in two hand weapon rolls so they could do it if they wanted.