Hunter - Powershot

[Lady Mormont]

So, Im setting my hunter is my main alt and this weekend I should finally have my 4pc. From all the guides I've been reading, they say for t18 4pc + with lone wolf, you should take powershot for single target. But after looking at quite a few logs, both high ilvl and around mine (715), NO ONE uses powershot. Are the guides outdated or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance ladies and gents!

[ironik]

So... the 4pc bonus does not affect anything except AS. And if you look at how much dmg each talent does, you see that while PS may do more dmg per hit, there's a 2.25 sec cast time coupled with a 45 sec CD.... not a whole lot of dmg output. GT is a bit better having a shorter CD with a bit less dmg, but Barrage is highest dmg output. If you can't aim your barrage properly, then go GT. I'm guessing the guides are outdated.

[Deleted]

So... the 4pc bonus does not affect anything except AS. And if you look at how much dmg each talent does, you see that while PS may do more dmg per hit, there's a 2.25 sec cast time coupled with a 45 sec CD.... not a whole lot of dmg output. GT is a bit better having a shorter CD with a bit less dmg, but Barrage is highest dmg output. If you can't aim your barrage properly, then go GT. I'm guessing the guides are outdated.

you actually did not get why to use powershot !on single target fights! for more dps.
powershot only uses 15 focus and does good dmg. this leads to more focus for aimed shots which is a dps gain over barrage wich costs a lot of focus and needs to be channeld. so power shot -> more aimed shots -> more dmg than barrage

[Azortharion]

So... the 4pc bonus does not affect anything except AS. And if you look at how much dmg each talent does, you see that while PS may do more dmg per hit, there's a 2.25 sec cast time coupled with a 45 sec CD.... not a whole lot of dmg output. GT is a bit better having a shorter CD with a bit less dmg, but Barrage is highest dmg output. If you can't aim your barrage properly, then go GT. I'm guessing the guides are outdated.

Lol, wow. No.

GT: Low damage, low cooldown, low cost.
PS: High damage, high cooldown, low cost.
Barrage: Very high damage, low cooldown, very high cost.

High cooldown + Low cost = More Aimed Shots.

Aimed Shots = Very good.

So the goal is to minimize the amount of focus you need to spend on your tier 6 talents, Powershot does that. The guides aren't outdated, you're just fucking wrong.

"But if the entire premise of tier 6 talents is for them to be as cheap as possible so that you can cast more Aimed Shots, why even bother with tier 6 talents at all?".

Good question, the answer is that tier 6 talents, on single target, are only very slightly better than not using them at all. If using Powershot on cooldown wasn't so easy, not using any tier 6 talent at all is completely viable and a marginal loss of DPS.

[Deleted]

I always run barrage and never use it on single target, i think this is the easiest way, i dont rly see any dmg gain from using tier6 skill without more than 2 targets.

[Deleted]

I always run barrage and never use it on single target, i think this is the easiest way, i dont rly see any dmg gain from using tier6 skill without more than 2 targets.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Why WOULDN'T you pre-cast Powershot for single target encounters?

[ironik]

The guides aren't outdated, you're just fucking wrong.

No need to be a dick about it.

you actually did not get why to use powershot !on single target fights! for more dps.
powershot only uses 15 focus and does good dmg. this leads to more focus for aimed shots which is a dps gain over barrage wich costs a lot of focus and needs to be channeld. so power shot -> more aimed shots -> more dmg than barrage

Constructive explanations like this are much more civilized and welcome.

- - - Updated - - -

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Why WOULDN'T you pre-cast Powershot for single target encounters?

Because the initial burst is ridiculous and the sustained damaged is easier to maintain afterward(with well timed TotH procs)

And with clever use of SS, maintaining focus/dmg output is easy, making barrage the best choice(for me) to maximize my dmg. With the 4pc, I would actually probably take Steady focus and use that in the middle of RF for a quick focus boost to dump more AS's if Toth procs. If you know how to react to and save abilities for procs, then PS falls short. The 2.25 second cast time on PS is is what kills it for me. In the time it takes to cast PS, I can regain enough focus to use AS more times during RF. I guess what I'm trying to get at is, the OP states that after checking many logs, he found that 'no one' uses PS. Only 2 people(including myself) have tried to answer that question.

Just to give you an idea, My initial burst is anywhere from 100-120k SINGLE target with a sustained 80-90k sustained. My ilvl is 702. My gear is crap and my stats are all wrong(just specced out of BM so I'm loaded with mastery gear). Imagine if I had the right stats :-)

Seizon-Area52

[Azortharion]

Barrage is not the best single-target choice for DPS regardless of who you are, you're wrong.

Steady Focus is a terrible choice across the board, generating less extra focus than you save with Thrill, you're wrong again.

PS doesn't fall short on single-target with 4pc for any reason.

Drop the pseudo-science, 100-120k single-target bursts are not high, at all. It's actually on the lower side, considering people (myself included) were doing higher bursts with around that iLvl back in BRF, where Aimed Shot wasn't instant. Unlike you, I can prove what I am saying rather than pull BS out of my ass. 702 iLvl, BRF in April, 150k burst: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=21

That was a remarkably unexceptional pull, too.

Plenty of people use PS, you need only look at logs for the only single-target boss where you'd use it (Fel Lord Zakuun), since he is the only single-target fight in the instance. So hard.

Also, Haste exists, Powershot takes like 2 seconds to cast the majority of the time.

In 2 seconds, you can generate 14 focus with Steady Shot and that's it (plus passive regen, but you do that with Powershot as well). That's not enough for an Aimed Shot, it's not even half the focus needed for a ToTH Aimed Shot.

You have no logs attached to your character, you've barely done anything but LFR, and you're pulling pseudo-science out of your ass. You have nothing to base your arguments on other than what you're saying, you can't even claim to have performed well with your anecdotes.

Also, enchant your neck.

[Deleted]

No need to be a dick about it.



Constructive explanations like this are much more civilized and welcome.

- - - Updated - - -



Because the initial burst is ridiculous and the sustained damaged is easier to maintain afterward(with well timed TotH procs)

And with clever use of SS, maintaining focus/dmg output is easy, making barrage the best choice(for me) to maximize my dmg. With the 4pc, I would actually probably take Steady focus and use that in the middle of RF for a quick focus boost to dump more AS's if Toth procs. If you know how to react to and save abilities for procs, then PS falls short. The 2.25 second cast time on PS is is what kills it for me. In the time it takes to cast PS, I can regain enough focus to use AS more times during RF. I guess what I'm trying to get at is, the OP states that after checking many logs, he found that 'no one' uses PS. Only 2 people(including myself) have tried to answer that question.

Just to give you an idea, My initial burst is anywhere from 100-120k SINGLE target with a sustained 80-90k sustained. My ilvl is 702. My gear is crap and my stats are all wrong(just specced out of BM so I'm loaded with mastery gear). Imagine if I had the right stats :-)

Seizon-Area52

thx , btw my explanation was purely based on azors guide. it's just that he made the best guide that i have seen since cata and he realy knows his stuff, so just do not try to argue with him without aimedshotproof facts behind your theory (pun intendet)^^

[Orionid]

This was the most entertaining thread to read xD

@OP - Battosi08, Azor knows his theorycrafting, trust his words. You probably were looking at logs that weren't single target fights. Because there is only ONE fight in HFC that is single target, Fel Lord Zakkuun. If you look at those logs I'm sure you will find a number of Hunter's running PS. Outside of that though, you would only ever use barrage on every single other fight. Except on maybe Kormrok speed kills when you don't get hands at all, or you let warriors nuke them down immediately and miss out on some Barrage padding. But guides aren't outdated, you might have just missed the single target point of Zakkuun being the only single target encounter.

[Lady Mormont]

Thanks everyone,

@Orionid, yeah I forgot about Zakuun, I was looking at sub 2min Reaver Kills (Heroic).

[Azortharion]

Barrage is better for Iron Reaver

[Deleted]

Because the initial burst is ridiculous and the sustained damaged is easier to maintain afterward(with well timed TotH procs)

This doesn't really mean anything in relation to what I said. But sure, if you want to pull numbers from thin air and claim things like using steady focus and then dumping AS if thrill procs, then go ahead. You realize that those 2 talents are on the same row, right? Posting complete misinformation just makes you look silly.

[Youn]

One feature of powershot that people forget is there until they use it is the knockback. Nothing makes a tank more annoyed when you send that add mob 20yards away from you. Generally speaking, I end up using barrage.

[shanthi]

One feature of powershot that people forget is there until they use it is the knockback. Nothing makes a tank more annoyed when you send that add mob 20yards away from you. Generally speaking, I end up using barrage.

It's only meant for single target boss encounters and bosses don't get knocked back. If there are adds, Barrage is already the default.

[ironik]

Barrage is not the best single-target choice for DPS regardless of who you are, you're wrong.

Steady Focus is a terrible choice across the board, generating less extra focus than you save with Thrill, you're wrong again.

PS doesn't fall short on single-target with 4pc for any reason.

Drop the pseudo-science, 100-120k single-target bursts are not high, at all. It's actually on the lower side, considering people (myself included) were doing higher bursts with around that iLvl back in BRF, where Aimed Shot wasn't instant. Unlike you, I can prove what I am saying rather than pull BS out of my ass. 702 iLvl, BRF in April, 150k burst: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=21

That was a remarkably unexceptional pull, too.

Plenty of people use PS, you need only look at logs for the only single-target boss where you'd use it (Fel Lord Zakuun), since he is the only single-target fight in the instance. So hard.

Also, Haste exists, Powershot takes like 2 seconds to cast the majority of the time.

In 2 seconds, you can generate 14 focus with Steady Shot and that's it (plus passive regen, but you do that with Powershot as well). That's not enough for an Aimed Shot, it's not even half the focus needed for a ToTH Aimed Shot.

You have no logs attached to your character, you've barely done anything but LFR, and you're pulling pseudo-science out of your ass. You have nothing to base your arguments on other than what you're saying, you can't even claim to have performed well with your anecdotes.

Also, enchant your neck.

First off, I never claimed to be a hardcore, or otherwise, raider. You assuming that doesn't make your response any less dickish. Just because I'm not elite and don't have logs to back up my shitty DPS claims, doesn't mean I'd lie about it. Another assumption that you missed wide on. And for the little quip about my neck enchant? I told you my gear was crap... that was including gems/enchants... thought you would have figured that out... bad assumption on my part :-)

All in all, just because a lot of people agree with you, doesn't mean there isn't another way to do things. You're not the only one that theorycrafts hunters... You're just the loudest one.

[Deleted]

First off, I never claimed to be a hardcore, or otherwise, raider. You assuming that doesn't make your response any less dickish. Just because I'm not elite and don't have logs to back up my shitty DPS claims, doesn't mean I'd lie about it. Another assumption that you missed wide on. And for the little quip about my neck enchant? I told you my gear was crap... that was including gems/enchants... thought you would have figured that out... bad assumption on my part :-)

All in all, just because a lot of people agree with you, doesn't mean there isn't another way to do things. You're not the only one that theorycrafts hunters... You're just the loudest one.

Well on the one hand it is always good to reflect words of others and rather do theorycrafting on your own, on the other hand if you want to contribute on a hunter forum were people ask questions about maximizing dps then you should maybe step aside when you cannot prove what you are saying.

[Azortharion]

Quit playing victim, I'm insulting what you're saying, not you. You're doing a fine job of making yourself look dumb, don't need me too point it out.

You are of the misconception that theorycraft is based on "opinions", and "agreeing with people". Trying to figure out the best way to play the game is as much of a science as anything else. How to best play the game is something based on hard facts and math, not what Azortharion thinks, what Effinhunter thinks, or what you think.

The fact is you're wrong. Not because I and everyone else thinks so, but because you just are. That's not an opinion, it's what it is.

There is no other way to do things unless they can be proven to do better than what myself or Effin is saying. Until then, it's just thin air (like what you are saying, and can't prove). Sure, you can play however you like, but don't be so delusional as to think that it is somehow better - unless you've done meaningful math/theorycraft to back that up.

[Tehterokkar]

Barrage is better for Iron Reaver

Could argue that for speed kills that are sub 1 min, PS is better.

[Azortharion]

Could argue that for speed kills that are sub 1 min, PS is better.

No. You can Barrage the first bombs within ring duration and create a significantly larger ring explosion, which very easily outweighs the small DPS gain that Powershot has over Barrage for single-target.