Cesspool vs Pug. How should a newbie get started raiding?

[Tankingineasy]

Hi guys.

So I recently got back into wow after a long time away. I never raided and being older and much wiser now I have much more confidence and have raiding on less of a pedestal... In my younger days it always seemed out of reach me being a mere mortal. (I left about mid BC due to RL).

I have no friends who play wow, and do not talk about wow around them or plan to try and get them to play. I understand what I need to do as a player to better myself. I read good guides to understand game and class mechanics, practice rotations, learn boss fights/raids. I have even taken Alchemy and maxed it out with cooking to always be prepaid for a raid.

I currently am still gearing up, And even though I have done all of this I have zero experience. I have no wow logs to show or experience to lean on in joining a guild, and the type of guilds that accepts a player like me the vast majority of the time are cesspool guilds or guilds that fall apart very quickly. that is because the vast majority of players in my situation fail to bring pots, study their class or learn the boss mechanics. I am not being cynical this is how it is. I am fully accepting of the fact that I will get guilds appropriate for my skill level, and this is the skill level I am currently.

So moving foward what is the best course of action with gaining experience not just gear. Should I join a causal trade chat guild (cesspool) and hope to raid putting up with the antics/drama that follow that, or should I find a guild socially and just pug my runs each week as I learn. I plan to do mythic dungeons and constantly improve as well as befriend anyone that is like minded along the way to get myself in a network.

TLR

With no friends the play, and learning everything I can, as well as being prepared for raids how do I get experience with no raid experience? Are cesspool guilds as they are referred too (trade chat guilds also) the best way, joining and hoping they hold together long enough to get some experience or am I better to join a guild just socially and pug each week for normal etc.

Thanks for any answers, it will be extremely appreciated!

[Deleted]

You want to become good? Watch streams/vids, read guides then go practice in pugs. Obviously try to kill all the bosses you can each week but don't think "ok Dude #5 is dead for this week" feel free to go back and kill him again just for practice. Work on your gear and gameplay enough and you'll find a decent guild if you aren't terribly unlucky.
Usually even cesspools have some decent players here and there that waste their life rading in them so go ahead and join one if you want but the main source of your experience will be PUGs. If you can't find any groups even after your gear becomes decent, consider starting your own with the friends/guildies you made.

When a guild decides to take you as a trial, each kill you've made on each boss will matter. Most people seem to forget you get good at this game mainly by playing a lot while keeping an open mind.

[Summer]

Join a guild but I'd advise you to drop the mindset where you call them cesspools. There's are friends & family guilds that have stayed up for years raiding normal/heroic, some of them have perfectly good players who just choose to play with their friends at that level rather than join a mythic guild.

As for logs, you can get logs in LFR if need be, there's nothing to stop you from logging yourself.

Lastly, if you have problems finding a guild atm it's because it's very late in the tier and you're far behind. Be geared quickly and raring to go in Legion and some guild will pick you up.

[Grimlair]

Your best off looking for a trade chat raiding guild an gettin as much experience an gear as possible, once your 13/13 Heroic now look for a forum post guild who are starting on mythic even if its 3/13 Mythic stay there an if the progression is stale get as much gear as possible an looking for a further progress guild, i wouldnt advise more then 2-3 boss ahead of your own experience unless your class is in high demand.

Honestly most guilds who will clear arch are either done or within a reset or two of a kill, i would just recommend doing your ring find a heroic guild an stay there till legion an hit legion running.

[spinner981]

Find a guild that accepts people on the promise that they will prove themselves. If you can prove yourself competent and capable, great. If you can't then, well, make yourself better and try again.

[clevin]

Actually, I'd not do a guild that takes just anyone. Hit the realm forums and check out some of the posts, see who's recruiting. What you're after is a guild that has a brief application but nothing extensive. You do NOT want a serious raid guild at this point, but a social guild that raids, ideally at something you feel is decent progression for what you want. At this point, I'd look for a raid doing late heroic HFC or maybe a few mythic bosses. (I'm assuming you want to raid at more than a casual, 'hey, i cleared Normal' level. if not, find a guild with that progression).

App to one or two of these, perhaps talk to them beforehand to get a feel for them.

[Deleted]

Just enter whatever and go from there. I had the misfortune to have to stop playing entirely for months or the raid teams were fully disbanding so I had to go through it a lot. It's almost always a process of joining one, crap, joining another, crap, joining another, hrm, so and so, joining another, ok this seems good.

Then again some people jump ship on the first opportunity they would get one ilevel more but I find that stressful, unnecessary and not that good.

Loyalty is also a skill.

[Gorsameth]

Not all guilds accepting random people are cesspools (I am currently in one myself). Keep looking around until you find one that seems right and is willing to take you and go from there.
However with your user name I think you might be a Tank? Your going to have a lot harder time getting a guild as a tank (since you only need 3 max) so I would certainly gear a dps spec.

[Deleted]

However with your user name I think you might be a Tank? Your going to have a lot harder time getting a guild as a tank (since you only need 3 max) so I would certainly gear a dps spec.

No. Just no. People often confuse their guild with the whole game so while your guild might have tanks locked into the same 2 people for ages, others need tanks very urgently.

It's not a coincidence queues for tanks in other areas of the game get almost automatically accepted.

[Temp name]

Get logs and then apply for a guild doing about the same percentile as you on average. How do you get those logs? Pugs, or friends (You said you didn't have any, but it's still a good way to get into raids), mostly.

If you're a tank and want to get into mythics, well, get ready to dethrone one of the guilds tanks.

[munkeyinorbit]

Actually, I'd not do a guild that takes just anyone. Hit the realm forums and check out some of the posts, see who's recruiting. What you're after is a guild that has a brief application but nothing extensive. You do NOT want a serious raid guild at this point, but a social guild that raids, ideally at something you feel is decent progression for what you want. At this point, I'd look for a raid doing late heroic HFC or maybe a few mythic bosses. (I'm assuming you want to raid at more than a casual, 'hey, i cleared Normal' level. if not, find a guild with that progression).

App to one or two of these, perhaps talk to them beforehand to get a feel for them.

You have got to be joking right? I cannot believe the elitism on this site. OP is in no position to be looking at a Heroic guild let alone a Mythic guild. He has zero experience. He needs to get experience. Guess what? It's LFR and RBG time.

No-one is going to take anybody without some sort of gear. You need to RBG hard to get those honor blues. It is actually good because you can choose the stats you want and it is completely relevant in raiding. Now it is LFR time. People will tell you that LFR is useless and I am in that camp except the mechanics are exactly like normal raiding but they do not hurt. Forget the older LFRs. Only do HFC LFR. Do them multiple times and learn what happens in the fights and why. Videos are great but doing is better. Now if you fuck up, who cares, you didn't take damage. Also as you get more gear and a higher ilvl, try to get normal pug runs. Most of the gear is worse but set gear is king and there is usually an OP trinket as well. Pick a crafting profession and make 3 pieces and upgrade to 715. They will help out for getting into pugs and guilds.

Once you have your PvP set and you are sick of LFR start looking for a guild who is progressing on heroic. The earlier the progression the better for you but you should be geared enough doing 35-40k dps and contributing. When "applying" and they ask for experience say something to the effect of, "I know all the fights in normal, I do not have much experience in Heroic but I want to learn and I want to progress". Avoid all guilds who have an application form. Reason one: This is actually a good guild and they only want the best of the best applying. Reason two: This is a shit guild and is run by a nazi who thinks that by having an application form their guild will be better. It actually makes their guild worse. You can tell the difference between them because the good guild will be 13/13 mythic. The bad guild will not. Guilds are out there and if you can commit to their schedule and have appropriate gear and and show that you will put effort into it, most guilds will welcome you. The fact that you have asked this question shows that you are willing to take that extra step and I would be willing to take you into my guild if you were full Honor gear. Of course for my guild its not that easy, we have to actually like you too .

[clevin]

You have got to be joking right? I cannot believe the elitism on this site. OP is in no position to be looking at a Heroic guild let alone a Mythic guild. He has zero experience. He needs to get experience. Guess what? It's LFR and RBG time.

Hmmm perhaps I wasn't clear about that. My point was that they should be where he'd LIKE to be eventually. Of course he won't get a spot right off, but this is the wrong time in the life of an expansion to really try to get on a raid team when you've been gone a long time anyway.

What I'm suggesting is that he find a guild that he likes and that, in Legion, should have roughly the progression he wants. He can thus become part of the guild, people can get to know him, he can run stuff like mythic 5s with them and thus show how he plays, etc.

For WoD though? It's too late to really start raiding with any serious intent. If he does want to catch up then, yeah, the rest of your post is spot on.

[Deztru]

- Learn to play
- Learn your class
- Keep your gear in check
- Look up videos of the raid bosses to know the abilities, actual videos and not the in-game journal because you don't get everything from text

There's nothing more 'meh' than those couple guys who just tag along and wipe the raid when they don't know the basics.

[Deleted]

Generally, a cesspool guild is a guild that drops you an invite immediately upon creating a new character. It has 800+ members and no one ever speaks or organizes anything. Every bigger realm has a ton of those horrific guilds that are good for nothing, except for mass rez perk. Stay a mile away from them.

Otherwise, small raiding guilds that are just starting out do exist. PUG-ing this late in an expansion is difficult, as you will have hard time meeting inflated achievement/itemlevel requirements. When HFC launched you could hook up into Normal at 675-680, now people ask you to overgear the instance drops (705+) and have Curve ach which is from Heroic. I know succesfull PUG-ers but they've been PUG-ing since launch, when the requirements weren't so stiff.

[Thelxi]

I would start pugging every lockout while whispering officers from guilds you have your eye on. As long as you are putting in the effort someone will take a chance on you.

[Deztru]

Generally, a cesspool guild is a guild that drops you an invite immediately upon creating a new character. It has 800+ members and no one ever speaks or organizes anything. Every bigger realm has a ton of those horrific guilds that are good for nothing, except for mass rez perk. Stay a mile away from them.

Otherwise, small raiding guilds that are just starting out do exist. PUG-ing this late in an expansion is difficult, as you will have hard time meeting inflated achievement/itemlevel requirements. When HFC launched you could hook up into Normal at 675-680, now people ask you to overgear the instance drops (705+) and have Curve ach which is from Heroic. I know succesfull PUG-ers but they've been PUG-ing since launch, when the requirements weren't so stiff.

Cesspool guilds are really rare in WoD because they removed the automatic guild deposit perk.

[Deleted]

You should keep doing LFR for at least 1 month after hitting lvl cap- to get into "the game of raiding". You get a little taste of what it will be like (gameplay wise).
Search forums for guilds, check out their armory and homepage (if any). Most serious guilds got their own hp.

[Wilderness]

You do NOT want a serious raid guild at this point, but a social guild that raids, ideally at something you feel is decent progression for what you want. At this point, I'd look for a raid doing late heroic HFC or maybe a few mythic bosses. (I'm assuming you want to raid at more than a casual, 'hey, i cleared Normal' level. if not, find a guild with that progression).

I think the bolded part is the best approach right now – I don’t agree with the 2nd part about finding a guild in late heroics or dabbling in mythic though, I think that’s aiming a little too high for right now. Find a social guild working on normals, maybe just starting heroics and join them. If you work on your gear now – tanaan, maybe an upgraded crafted piece or two (weapon and/or trinket probably the best spots to prioritize), mythic dungeons, potentially PVP – then you can get to a 700+ ilvl which is more than enough to jump right into normal modes.

You can raid with them for a while to get better gear (HFC trinkets, tier pieces, etc) and better experience. A few months down the line, if you’re interested in more progression, then you’ll have relevant experience, some gear, and logs that you can show to a guild that’s killing heroic and into mythic. Or you might find that you’re having fun with what you’re doing and stay put.

There aren’t a lot of them out there, but really the best situation would be a large social guild that has multiple raid teams with different levels of progression. That would give you plenty of opportunities to move up in progression as your gear/skill improves without having to change guilds at all.

[melodramocracy]

Join a guild. Pugs are probably the worst option for you at this point.

[Ornerybear]

Join a guild but I'd advise you to drop the mindset where you call them cesspools. There's are friends & family guilds that have stayed up for years raiding normal/heroic, some of them have perfectly good players who just choose to play with their friends at that level rather than join a mythic guild.

As for logs, you can get logs in LFR if need be, there's nothing to stop you from logging yourself.

Lastly, if you have problems finding a guild atm it's because it's very late in the tier and you're far behind. Be geared quickly and raring to go in Legion and some guild will pick you up.

I agree with all of this, but especially the part about friends and family guilds.

My guild is a very old group of players that dates bate to pre wow in early EQ days. Many of the players are extremely good, and the guild in Wotlk was running 10/25 Heroic. Now most are all in their 40s, and have no time to raid.