Why don't americans buy and wear body armour?

[Gib Lover]

I can definitely see that as a problem. However, other forms of hunting would solve the issue. If animal overpopulation was the only concern with killing the Second Amendment, I'm sure we could figure out something.

Well first of all it is far from the only concern with killing the second amendment.

Second of all, what would you propose we replace it with if guns were outlawed? Bowhunting can only do so much. You have to get closer to your prey, the average hunter in a spot and stalk state is effective at 40 yards on average. A treestand or blind frequenting state is even shorter, less than 20. More game animals are getting away from hunters in that situation, so bowhunting as fun as it is and as much as I love archery both hunting and competitive, is not a viable replacement.

So how about Government executed hunting? Just military men marching through forests and private property shooting animals and moving on. 2 AM and you hear gunshots outside? Well guns are illegal so it must just be the US Army's hunting division. Go back to sleep, I'm sure you will be fine.

So the next option, lets just tear down all forests! No place for them to live, no animals. Ah, screw trees. Screw national forests, screw oxygen, more flat land, more condos. Win/win to me, I agree lets do this.

[cubby]

Excellent, love a good discussion with an intelligent poster - thank you ahead of time (being sincere here, just saying this so it's clear - written words can sometimes be misinterpreted).

https://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunt...n-hunting.html

1. All the information you want about how much money it generates both for the government and the private sector.

Sweet, thanks for info. Looking at it after this post. Will return.

2. Boars reproduce at an alarming rate, are omnivorous, and off the coast of California there is an island so overpopulated that the Government tests miniguns on the pigs, and the living eat the dead and are back in greater numbers for the next test. They tear up farmland with their tusks, they will gore a person for approaching their young. Take away a farmers guns, you take away his defense.

Now one point I will concede about the hunting issue is that we are assuming bows are not being outlawed, and bowhunting is on the rise and could theoretically completely replace hunting with a firearm.

Holy fuck! I had absolutely no idea boars were like that - wow. I'm not giving up my gun at all - not sure I'd want to go after those guys with just a bow.

3. If you honestly think a gun has never stopped a robbery or assault, I don't know what to tell you because with this many guns in this country and this many people, it is bound to have happened at least once.

I'm not saying that a gun hasn't stopped a robbery, I'm saying that a "good guy" with a gun hasn't stopped a "bad guy" with a gun. However, in concession to the point, I have no data to back this up. I'm looking for stories/data/info about gun violence being thwarted by gun ownership/use. Let's come back to this in a bit.

5. It's a scary prospect, I will stick with my chance of getting shot in a mass shooting over the US Army deciding I live in a hotbed of "rebel" activity and getting carpet bombed for being on the wrong side of a civil war. Extreme case, I know but just using it as an example.

Lol, same here.

One side note: I find shooting to be a fun sport (at a range). I haven't done a ton of it, but I do enjoy it.

[ellieg]

I can definitely see that as a problem. However, other forms of hunting would solve the issue. If animal overpopulation was the only concern with killing the Second Amendment, I'm sure we could figure out something.




I don't think the majority of burglars rate houses as more/less likely to have a gun before they break in. Typically, there are two kinds of robbers. Smash and grab junkies and plan-it-out-for-a-big-score pros (third category is just idiots on a whim). The pros probably would factor in gun ownership but it wouldn't dissuade them because, well, they'd plan for it. The junkies can't think more than 1 minute ahead of their lives. So gun ownership really wouldn't affect home invasions.

Im not 100% on how the seasons work but im pretty sure hunting season opens with bows, then opens up later to black powder guns, then opens up to everything to really quell the population. I think gun ownership would dissuade but then again im not a robber. I know that if I rob a house, theres a good chance someone inside is going to try and kill me with a gun. Without a gun, its gonna be a lot harder for them to kill me, especially if im the one with the gun.

[Gib Lover]

Excellent, love a good discussion with an intelligent poster - thank you ahead of time (being sincere here, just saying this so it's clear - written words can sometimes be misinterpreted).



Sweet, thanks for info. Looking at it after this post. Will return.




Holy fuck! I had absolutely no idea boars were like that - wow. I'm not giving up my gun at all - not sure I'd want to go after those guys with just a bow.




I'm not saying that a gun hasn't stopped a robbery, I'm saying that a "good guy" with a gun hasn't stopped a "bad guy" with a gun. However, in concession to the point, I have no data to back this up. I'm looking for stories/data/info about gun violence being thwarted by gun ownership/use. Let's come back to this in a bit.




Lol, same here.

One side note: I find shooting to be a fun sport (at a range). I haven't done a ton of it, but I do enjoy it.

Yeah boars are no joke, any hunting show where they bowhunt a boar they never show the guy behind the camera with a gun drawn, because the boar can and will more often than not charge the bowhunter if you don't kill it.
People are seriously injured year round (boar hunting is legal year round with a bow where I am) because they go boar hunting alone without a sidearm with them.

Also Cubby if I am coming off as a jerk, it's not intentional. I see you are open to intelligent discussion, as I'm sure you are aware that is more then often not the case on the internet so forgive me for jumping in all guns blazing with sarcasm and snideness

[cubby]

Well first of all it is far from the only concern with killing the second amendment.

Second of all, what would you propose we replace it with if guns were outlawed? Bowhunting can only do so much. You have to get closer to your prey, the average hunter in a spot and stalk state is effective at 40 yards on average. A treestand or blind frequenting state is even shorter, less than 20. More game animals are getting away from hunters in that situation, so bowhunting as fun as it is and as much as I love archery both hunting and competitive, is not a viable replacement.

So how about Government executed hunting? Just military men marching through forests and private property shooting animals and moving on. 2 AM and you hear gunshots outside? Well guns are illegal so it must just be the US Army's hunting division. Go back to sleep, I'm sure you will be fine.

So the next option, lets just tear down all forests! No place for them to live, no animals. Ah, screw trees. Screw national forests, screw oxygen, more flat land, more condos. Win/win to me, I agree lets do this.

Lol, I could just see a Company of Army Infantry mowing down a forest of animals. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

If overpopulation was the only concern, and you and I both agree that's not the case, one immediate alternative would be to have the same state licensing and tagging agencies loan out guns. When the season is over, the hunters turn them back in.

[Stacyrect]

It seems like a no brainer. You have country where the general public have guns and a trigger happy attitude in law enforcement.
The cost of armour isn't too high when you compare it to other items people wear like fancy suits or motorcycle equipment.

Worryingly while I was searching around this topic I found out there was an actual bill by some Californian politician who was attempting to ban body armour for the general public.

http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/1...oof-vest-ban/#

it's illegal to buy body armor as far as I know

[Gib Lover]

Lol, I could just see a Company of Army Infantry mowing down a forest of animals. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

If overpopulation was the only concern, and you and I both agree that's not the case, one immediate alternative would be to have the same state licensing and tagging agencies loan out guns. When the season is over, the hunters turn them back in.

While an option, I see serious legal issues with anything happening with a state given gun, intentional or otherwise

[cubby]

Yeah boars are no joke, any hunting show where they bowhunt a boar they never show the guy behind the camera with a gun drawn, because the boar can and will more often than not charge the bowhunter if you don't kill it.
People are seriously injured year round (boar hunting is legal year round with a bow where I am) because they go boar hunting alone without a sidearm with them.

I can totally see the show being filmed with the bow hunter standing in front of the guy with an M-4 carbine, who is next to the cameraman. I know I said it once already, but wow, boars are serious business. I'm looking up that island you mentioned earlier.

Also Cubby if I am coming off as a jerk, it's not intentional. I see you are open to intelligent discussion, as I'm sure you are aware that is more then often not the case on the internet so forgive me for jumping in all guns blazing with sarcasm and snideness

It's all good - you and I are on the same page here. I feel exactly the same way. ellieg seems to be on the same wave length as well.

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While an option, I see serious legal issues with anything happening with a state given gun, intentional or otherwise

Crap, you're right. The legal issues would be big, unless somehow you could just sign a 100% indemnity waver - although lawyers always find a way around it.

Ironically, even if we could pass sweeping gun control legislation (including Second Amendment dissolution) I'm not sure the U.S. could afford to implement it.

500,000,000 guns. Insane.

Didn't someone say the U.S. has 31% of the worlds guns?

[Gib Lover]

Didn't someone say the U.S. has 31% of the worlds guns?

Yeah, it comes out to about a gun for every other person in America.
Not that they are even remotely that evenly distributed, if you own a gun you are exponentially more likely to get another than for someone without a gun to get that same gun

[zenkai]

Because it's heavy, bulky and restrictive? A better idea would just be banning the private ownership of firearms. But Murka is too dumb for that.

Well one day we hope to be a smart as you

[Hoover Hog]

I heard no drugs come from mexico and those cartels don't sell anything in America.

If you missed the earlier point it's not about where the drugs are being produced, it's that producing drugs is far far easier than producing firearms. The two really are not comparable.

[shadowmatrix]

In other words: Don't do stupid shit, don't get shot.

Do you really think it's that easy? After all the news stories of people getting shot by strangers you still think it's that easy? Those people only wanted to see a movie, so what stupid thing did they do to justify James Holmes coming into the movie theater and shooting them?

[ellieg]

If you missed the earlier point it's not about where the drugs are being produced, it's that producing drugs is far far easier than producing firearms. The two really are not comparable.

What about 3d printers? In a few years I could see them easily mass producing guns of high quality. What about the 300 million guns already here? Are you going to try and round them up or are you just gonna wait 100 or so years until they rust too much?

[Hoover Hog]

Ya nobody could make a gun in their own home, 3D printing will never catch on. Everyone knows that only large manufacturers can produce guns in 2015.

3D printed guns are far more expensive, harder to produce, and are far less effective. Seems like a good trade.

[ellieg]

Do you really think it's that easy? After all the news stories of people getting shot by strangers you still think it's that easy? Those people only wanted to see a movie, so what stupid thing did they do to justify James Holmes coming into the movie theater and shooting them?

You know how incredibly rare it is to get shot and killed in a mass shooting? More rare than getting stuck by lightning.

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3D printed guns are far more expensive, harder to produce, and are far less effective. Seems like a good trade.

And in 5 years? 10 years?

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

This isn't Game of Thones dude. There are sooooo many people in this country, but a single gun incident is all you alarmists need to say everyone needs to wear body armor?
That is not the solution, I promise.

[zenkai]

Do you really think it's that easy? After all the news stories of people getting shot by strangers you still think it's that easy? Those people only wanted to see a movie, so what stupid thing did they do to justify James Holmes coming into the movie theater and shooting them?

Depends on the movie they are seeing.

[Hoover Hog]

What about 3d printers? In a few years I could see them easily mass producing guns of high quality. What about the 300 million guns already here? Are you going to try and round them up or are you just gonna wait 100 or so years until they rust too much?

Again, you're missing the point. I didn't ever argue in favor of a gun ban. I'm just tired of seeing terrible arguments trying to be used in defense of not banning them. Besides the fact that drugs and guns are vastly different, the crux of this argument boils down to "people do things even though they are illegal, so nothing should be illegal."

[Jester Joe]

Since the thread has basically become a Gun Control discussion anyway, and I don't see any other way it's gonna turn around, I'm going to close it at this point and say if anyone wants to discuss Gun Control, the correct thread is over here-
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Control-Thread

CLOSED.